New Bill Threatens to effectively ban online sales of ammunition

Originally posted by DAVID64A law like this will allow them to keep track of who buys what and do nothing to stop criminals.

And honestly, I think this is really what it's all about. Yes, there are some really ignorant politicians who think this is the key to stopping crime, but the true backers of these bills...the guys with the money and power to make things happen...like the surveillance aspect of it. They just opportunistically use tragedy to drive the agenda.

reply to post by samcrow

But my reasoning is that if this guy had bought that much ammo locally it could have thrown up a flag and stopped the incident from happening. The guy used guns to commit the act, not the other stuff he built. His tool of choice was the guns. I am in no way going against our right to bear arms or purchase bullets. I am trying to say that if the community is involved than there is a possibility of some local recognition of something wrong. When someone crazy acting buys a lot of ammo, talk will be flying around the community and possibly be heard by someone in the local police department. It may or may not have made a difference in this case but a crazy person may also be afraid of getting them in person.

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
yes, I know, then only criminals would have guns, but real men don't use guns, they use their fists or a sword.

Ok Batman. OK.

My Pistol trumps your fists any day of the week.


reply to post by 1947flxible

Just stupid.
Now the evil is the Hollow Point Round. Good hell, do people like these idiots share a brain?
This round is used by LE, Self Defense and Hunting.
I would not use a normal round to hunt, as it may just mass through the animal.
I would also not want to use a normal round for self defense, as it has a higher likely hood to pass through the body. As opposed to a hollow point round expands.
This notion that the hollow point round is the bogey man is about a stupid as stupid gets.

And now Anti's are squealing for more restrictions.

So, how can this law stop people from breaking the law on not murdering people?

Stupid, just stupid.

reply to post by samcrow


We used to have to sign for bullets for a while. Nobody was even doing anything with that information back around then. They dropped that law. I don't personally feel bullets should be sold on the net. I was actually surprised to learn that our government allowed it.

Originally posted by rickymouse
I agree fully with this proposed law. I believe that people in our own locality have the right to know if a lot of amunition is being purchased by an individual that does not seem all there so they can notify the proper local authorities.

You think you have the right to know what I purchase?

Ok, sure, I will agree to that, right after you give me the right to know what you do in your bed room. Or tell me what foods you purchase, or how about who you vote for. Or, even better, lets just track where you spend your money at, and your neighbors get that info. Please also include the porn sites you visit.

Originally posted by rickymouse
There is no way that someone taking an order from an individual online can tell if that person is insane.

I did not realize that brick and mortar workers went to school to psychoanalyze people purchasing things.

Originally posted by rickymouse
What is wrong with supporting your local community anyway. Mail order gun and ammo sales are not a right covered by the right to bear arms.

So now you want to shut down businesses.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Keeping an eye on individuals in a community for irrational behavior should be done in the community itself since they have to deal with the individual.

You have got to be the nosiest person in your town. What kind of gossip do you got as well?

Originally posted by rickymouse
If you have to special order ammo than it should be ordered through a gun dealer.

Ok Das Fuhrer.

The shooter who killed 12 and injured 58 in an Aurora, Colorado movie theater this month had purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition anonymously on the Internet shortly before going on his killing spree, according to law enforcement officials,” the statement reads

Well that is a flat out lie what did Holmes have "annonymous" printed on is visa,and mastercard or paypal?

And how the hell does ups or fedex deleiver it to an address with "anonmyous" ?

The leftists are using Holmes a derranged lunatic who was seeing a shrink.

This stupidity makes my blood boil.

safer for law-abiding Americans who are sick and tired of the ease with which criminals can now anonymously stockpile for mass murder,” in a statement released Saturday.

So everyone is a criminal?

So much for innocent until proven guilty.

Bunch of idiots.

Originally posted by neo96

The shooter who killed 12 and injured 58 in an Aurora, Colorado movie theater this month had purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition anonymously on the Internet shortly before going on his killing spree, according to law enforcement officials,” the statement reads

Well that is a flat out lie what did Holmes have "annonymous" printed on is visa,and mastercard or paypal?

And how the hell does ups or fedex deleiver it to an address with "anonmyous" ?

The leftists are using Holmes a derranged lunatic who was seeing a shrink.

This stupidity makes my blood boil.

safer for law-abiding Americans who are sick and tired of the ease with which criminals can now anonymously stockpile for mass murder,” in a statement released Saturday.

So everyone is a criminal?

So much for innocent until proven guilty.

Bunch of idiots.

you might want to change your avitar neo96, holmes had a gas mask on when he killed all those people, dont want to be cought with that, you will be called out as a criminal right winger tea bagging nut job, and you order ammo on line.... wow this is a cut a paste case here. your a criminal for sure.

reply to post by macman


I belonged to the NRA for many years. I belong to a gun club. I would never surrender my fathers rifles to the government and don't believe that ammo should be restricted from our citizens. I do agree with limiting the abilities of convicted Felons from owning guns. I definitely disagree that bullets should be sold to the public online.

Want to save money, reload yourself, reloading supplies could be bought online, I am not against that.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Yeah I just ordered some ammo from Cheaper than dirt, and ammunition to go, but I only shoot zombies.

Second.

Originally posted by rickymouse


I belonged to the NRA for many years. I belong to a gun club. I would never surrender my fathers rifles to the government and don't believe that ammo should be restricted from our citizens. I do agree with limiting the abilities of convicted Felons from owning guns. I definitely disagree that bullets should be sold to the public online.

Want to save money, reload yourself, reloading supplies could be bought online, I am not against that.

You lost me by stating you were a NRA member, you don't believe that ammo should be restricted and then state you don't agree with selling online.

You do realize that when you purchase online, the paper trail is more then if you purchase face to face.

You are an epic fail.

reply to post by macman

You do realize that when you purchase online, the paper trail is more then if you purchase face to face.

Yep that is how the FBI knew that homles purchased ammo over a 4 month period of time.

Banking statements.

Originally posted by rickymouse

Want to save money, reload yourself, reloading supplies could be bought online, I am not against that.

Why?

Crazy people cant put a cartridge together?

If you're going to be okay with somebody buying cases, primers, bullets and powder online then why not a box of cartridges?

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by samcrow

 

But my reasoning is that if this guy had bought that much ammo locally it could have thrown up a flag and stopped the incident from happening. The guy used guns to commit the act, not the other stuff he built. His tool of choice was the guns. I am in no way going against our right to bear arms or purchase bullets. I am trying to say that if the community is involved than there is a possibility of some local recognition of something wrong. When someone crazy acting buys a lot of ammo, talk will be flying around the community and possibly be heard by someone in the local police department. It may or may not have made a difference in this case but a crazy person may also be afraid of getting them in person.

No, what you're talking about is essentially a McCarthyistic 'community watch' system. Who defines 'crazy?' By all accounts, this Holmes kid was completely 'normal' up to the point he drove over to the theater. So then what? You profile him based on what? Hair color? The kind of music he listens to?

Again, a gun is an inanimate object...it's a TOOL. It takes the human element in order to function. I have yet to catch any of my rifles or handguns trying to sneak out on their own in the middle of the night to commit crimes. All these laws do is shift the blame from the person to the tool. If I bludgeon somebody to death with a crescent wrench should we outlaw crescent wrenches?

I think we're agreeing on the same fundamental point but disagreeing on how to get there. We need a better system to address mental illness...that's the issue. Gun laws, last I checked, don't address that.

Originally posted by rickymouseWant to save money, reload yourself, reloading supplies could be bought online, I am not against that.

So your argument is that we need to 'watch' people more closely, but then you advocate using what is probably the most off-the-grid, discreet form of ammo procurement out there? What?

A decent progressive reloading setup and enough primer, powder, bullets, and brass and you can come up with A LOT more ammo A LOT quicker than Holmes got his shipment.

reply to post by macman


I'm very aware that the paper trail is very good on online purchases and it is also evident that the government knows you purchased ammo and guns if you purchase them using a credit card or anything other than cash. I prefer to stay off the grid myself. Just because I am a longtime hunter and gun lover doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that other gun enthusiasts do. I can think for myself and cannot be intimidated to believe something is necessary if it is not. I know well what precedence can do and if left unchecked it can strip us of our rights. I do not think this bill is a threat. I'll wait to read the law as written before it is voted on to judge whether I will join the fight against it.

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
Yes, because it's absolutely ludicrous to require a person to buy their hallow points in a face-to-face transaction. But, hey, I'm a strict constitutionalist when it comes to guns. If it wasn't available when the framers wrote the constitution then how could the framers approve? They couldn't, they had no idea about fully automatic weapons. Hell, their weapons could barely fire once a minute. yes, I know, then only criminals would have guns, but real men don't use guns, they use their fists or a sword.

So by the same token the First Amendment does not apply to computers, the internet, phones, television, and film because they were not invented back then?

reply to post by samcrow

Do you know anyone who reloads that is crazy enough to go into a theater and shoot a bunch of people they don't know? I know many people who reload and it takes patients and clear thinking to do it right. It's not hard but someone with screwed up brain chemistry probably wouldn't be able to do it right.

thanks for higlighting the story do you think this is a bad thing? if so why?

You seem to have plenty of ammo stores or at least when i went to michigan there was
People managed to get ammo before the internet so banning the online sale shouldn't be a problem
i also agree with the statement;

If someone wants to purchase deadly ammunition, they should have to come face-to-face with the seller/

edit on 31-7-2012 by christafinias because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by samcrow

 

Do you know anyone who reloads that is crazy enough to go into a theater and shoot a bunch of people they don't know? I know many people who reload and it takes patients and clear thinking to do it right. It's not hard but someone with screwed up brain chemistry probably wouldn't be able to do it right.

THe guy in question made multiple home-made bombs. A dillon press would be nothing to him.

Also reloading is pretty simple, a child could do it. It is just a matter of measuring and even the expensive presses do it all for you. Sure, precision shooters get into the minute details and measurements, but if you can drive a car, you can do basic reloading to the quality of storebought, mass produced ammo.

reply to post by NavyDoc


The amendment says right to bear arms. That does not limit it to pea shooters. That doesn't limit it to muskets. We actually have the right to possess all arms. Fully Automatic weapons aren't needed though by the general public. Notice I said general public, someone with training and rationality is a different story. But we can't discriminate in the USA so the government had to limit them to all people. I wouldn't even want a fully automatic rifle, it would cost me too much to shoot it.