Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by meeneecat
reply to post by nenothtu

 

For the record, anyone that says stuff like "be a man" and then goes around caring a little too much about the private bedrooms of others, I have to wonder about them.

It's pointless trying to talk sense with blind prejudice.


History my friend. You're on the wrong side of it. Wouldn't want to be ya.

The argument to be in support of gay marriage because it is the "hip and cool and modern viewpoint" is silly.

reply to post by meeneecat


well good because if you stay any longer I will vote against gay marriage!

With the exception of one or two gay people in this thread not one of you have been helpful at all to my understanding, all you all wanted to do was hate christians and label me as one when I am not!

I am serious on the fact if I never speak to another gay person again it will probably be too soon after the lot of your attitudes!

When someone walks up to me and asks me questions about my religion I dont sit around and deride and berate them for it! So why you would berate me for asking questions is simply beyond me!

Perhaps the lot of you just hate anyone who is not gay? Who knows at this point!

If you have a ceremony in a church you still have to get a license through the state to be legally married. Your religion is completely separate from state law. A legal marriage is completely separate from a religious ceremony.

Originally posted by Iron7

The argument to be in support of gay marriage because it is the "hip and cool and modern viewpoint" is silly.

This is not about carrying purse size dogs in Hollywood.

One in ten men are Gay, should these men be denied their "pursuit of happiness" because you
question your own direction in life?

reply to post by OpinionatedB

I want a religious marriage... so I will not have anything to do with the state in mine!

So does that mean when you get/got married you only had a ceremony in a church and won't/didn't get a legal 'Certificate of Marriage' from the court house?

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Well, it's true that the reactionary rants against things that aren't even there seem not to have won any friends for the cause. even in supporting the legal quest for gays to be allowed State sanctioned marriages got me pilloried by the very people I was supporting. I'm sort of used to that, though - it's not the first time I've been spit at or vilified by the very people I was defending. you'd think I'd learn over time to let folks fight their own battles!

no, I ain't going to tell you how to vote - I'll just give you my opinion in the matter and let you make up your own mind as to whether it makes sense or not.

Ain't that how it supposed to work anyhow, State Contract or not?

Originally posted by Iron7

Originally posted by meeneecat

Originally posted by Iron7
Gay marriage will be the stepping stone to pedophilia and bestiality marriages

If Iron seven is allowed to use the internet freely, pretty soon he is going to be using the internet to organize all sorts of treasonous, nefarious plots to kill off segments of humanity and undermine us all.

You see how that works?

Incorrect.

You are implying my argument is a slippery slope, when in reality it is human nature to demand a mile when given an inch.

Take slavery for example. Slavery banned, then slaves allowed to vote, then affirmative action, then a black President. Not that that is a bad thing but it is an example.

Well, you couldn't have picked a worse example....geez...WTH are you thinking?......Having said that, to follow this logic in a better way.....9-11..patriot act, Iraq, Libya, Fed, Obama-care, election fraud, bailouts, financial ruin, un-checked corruption....God, it makes my head hurt......Monsanto, FDA, control freak cops killing our kids and dogs, I could go on and on... Anyways....in the scheme of things we all need to REJECT our current government in every way........ok...taking a breath.......

reply to post by nenothtu


you know how upset I get when people learn about the religion from people who do not know nor practice the religion? I have always believed the only way to get to the heart of the matter was to go to the source! Those who know best...

well, its no wonder that people in America are afraid to go to the source for their information! They have probably had the audacity to speak to a gay person about why they want particular things! This would terrify anyone!


I really do feel sufficiently stupid for doing this! And I have yet to understand why it was so stupid! All I know is that it was!

As far as the future... I know you wont tell me what to do. and yes... thats how its supposed to work!

Originally posted by meeneecat
reply to post by nenothtu

 

For the record, anyone that says stuff like "be a man" and then goes around caring a little too much about the private bedrooms of others, I have to wonder about them.

It's pointless trying to talk sense with blind prejudice.


History my friend. You're on the wrong side of it. Wouldn't want to be ya.

And I'm damned glad you're NOT me, so that makes us both happy!

if you'd care to point out where I displayed any care for what other folks do in their own bedrooms, I'd be ever so grateful. we're not discussing who sticks what where here, we're discussing legalities, and apparently religion, too. therefore, you can "wonder about" me all you like, but I'd appreciate a retraction.

Not that I expect you have it in you to make one.

By me "being on the wrong side of history" do you mean to imply that you believe gays will NEVER get privileges to State sanctioned marital contracts?

I think we could have a REALLY interesting discussion of "blind prejudice" if you so choose to go there.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
Marriage is a religious institution.

I understand that, to you, marriage has a religious meaning. I support your freedom of religion, and therefore support your choice that your marriage be a religious institution.

My husband and I don't have religion as part of our lives. Our marriage is not religious in the least, We were not married "before God" or anything like that. There were no religious words spoken when we got married. Religion isn't a required component of marriage. It's an option.

You and I do have one thing in common, however. To be legally married, we have to get a marriage license from the state and sign the legal contract with the state. God and religion are an "addition" to the legal, state contract.

So, your premise that marriage MUST be a religious institution is false. Marriage is a state contract. Some people add a religious component and others do not. If people want religion as part of their marriage, it's none of my business. If they don't, it's none of yours.

Same with my marriage, and I'll go one further.....we believe marriage is a personal meaningful thing, a deep commitment. It has more meaning than just a tax break, in fact that never crossed our minds when we decided to marry. Marriage has more meaning than just a religious right of passage.

Never mind. TMI.

Originally posted by SunnyDee

Same with my marriage, and I'll go one further.....we believe marriage is a personal meaningful thing, a deep commitment. It has more meaning than just a tax break, in fact that never crossed our minds when we decided to marry. Marriage has more meaning than just a religious right of passage.

Do you have a legal marriage.

Did you have the choice to have a legal marriage?

To all the gays that read this. I will give you my take on this and I do not think I am alone in my view but that most people have a hard time expressing what they are feeling.

I see most of you, through actions and deeds in this way.
If someone I consider a friend asks me to help him, I most certainly will do so. If I ask this same friend for assistance and it always seems like a bad time for him to help me out, he will soon become just someone I used to like but no longer do. When I was young we called these people One way....for them it is never a 2 way street they walk down. I do not need nor want people like this anywhere near me, and this makes a friend into an acquaintance and then into someone I despise.

Do you remember back when AIDS was a gay problem? Married people reached in to their wallets by the millions to donate money for research to combat this sickness. They gave year after year to try to save the people whose lifestyle was not their own. You asked for our help,and we gave it to you, billions of dollars we could have spent on our kids, on our spouses or on ourselves.....but we gave it to you. We work in hospitals and laboratories day in and day out searching for a cure..........never did you hear us tell you the cure is stop being gay and send you down the road.

Now we tell you that the word marriage is pretty important to us and ask of you to let marriage be something a man and a woman do to make each other miserable. We do not ask for your money, we do not ask for your time and in return you call us hateful, evil and take steps to try to ruin our lives or businesses.

There is not much I can do as a person to help you out, but when you did ask I gave freely to help insure you did not die from AIDS. Now I am asking you to stand with me to call a marriage something that a man and woman do.....and you tell me to go screw myself. Well you just made an enemy. not because you are gay, but because when you needed me I was there, and when I needed you............(cricket noise).

I never dreamed in my life I would be battling you guys over something like this. It breaks my heart really that the very people I have reached into my wallet for and handed my last dollar over to would turn on me the minute the fear of AIDS on an epidemic level passed.
It should break your heart that I now wonder if all the donations straight people made to combat AIDS was worth it.
I get this vision of some guy with AIDS making a plea for people to help combat this illness saying, "Please help combat AIDS, so we can get better and have the energy and strength to cram our gayness down your throats and make your lives hell if you disagree with us"
Anymore all I want is to push you gays back into the closet and slam the door on your fingers every time I see the door getting opened............ I hope your proud of yourselves

Originally posted by ronnieray123

Now we tell you that the word marriage is pretty important to us and ask of you to let marriage be something a man and a woman do to make each other miserable. We do not ask for your money, we do not ask for your time and in return you call us hateful, evil and take steps to try to ruin our lives or businesses.

There is not much I can do as a person to help you out, but when you did ask I gave freely to help insure you did not die from AIDS. Now I am asking you to stand with me to call a marriage something that a man and woman do.....and you tell me to go screw myself. Well you just made an enemy. not because you are gay, but because when you needed me I was there, and when I needed you............(cricket noise).

Funny, I thought I heard violins when I read your post.

I have known many, many gays who have given much of their time and money to help those less fortunate. Those less fortunate, INCLUDING heterosexuals.

Gay donors give 2.5 percent of their income to charity compared to 2.2 for the general population, according to a study by the Institute of Gay & Lesbian Strategic Studies.

www.thenonprofittimes.com...

Then I see something like Chick-Fil-A donating millions of dollars to organizations that want to take away the legal rights of gays. Where's the gratitude to gays for all they do?

Gays are asking for equality under the law. That's it. They are not trying to take your marriage away from you. Don't like gay marriage? Then don't marry a gay person. Simple.

thats funny I thought we were talking about marriage....I will try to stay on topic next time
Sorry about that

reply to post by ronnieray123


I don't understand you protest.

Do you mean to say that, when AIDS was threatening Gay populations, among others, you donated money for research for a cure, and maybe for AIDS medication to be distributed among the inflicted poor and suffering, but asking for equal rights for Gay and Lesbian couples is just one step too far, and not charitable of them?

When a mouse is cornered, this animal will bare its teeth, to fight back and defend itself, timid as it is naturally is, even if it knows it is a losing battle against mightier odds.

But mice are not humans. How more, would a fellow human behave?

Thus let us NEVER to push fellow humans too far, more so as we humanity have to take partial blame for their condition, with our greed, selfishness, corruption and apathy for ages.

Let us not discrimanate against fellow humans, as long as they have not hurt or harm anyone.

The very essence of religion - civilisation guides for ethical progression and evolution - with regards to homosexuality, was basically that it would end mankind if all adopts such lifestyle, and nothing to do with what goes on behind closed doors.

In order to be true to our faiths, such 'unions' between same sex would be thus frowned upon. But we need not discriminate against them for their gift of free will no mortal can take away. We can accept them, but to counsel them on the responsibilities and joys of marriage and parenthood, by logic and reason, instead of intimidation, fear, threats or worse-violence.

Power may be derive from the barrels of guns, fear and violence, but it will logic and reason that wins the hearts and minds of mankind. Homosexuals are only fellow humans and not some distinct species of creation. They live, breathe, bleed and aspire as anyone else of us all.

Thus, religious faiths will unfortunately, not be able to sanction such unions, if they are to be true to the faith and evolution.

However, there is no sacred text against same sex bonding for friendship and companionship. Warriors, armies and even male dominated ancient civilisations thrived on such. Today, even companies that merges are termed as 'marriages'.

Civil Unions are thus no different from companies merging. If same sex wishes the legitimacy of 'marriages' to protect both parties, 'civil unions' are the solution way out. Their 'contracts' would be determine the way business 'contracts' are legalised and pursued upon.

And society will not tresspass upon those contracts. Whatever is kept behind close doors would not be intruded upon, unless legal actions warrants it, such as report of loss, theft, or any other forms of civil cases.

Ultimately, homosexuals must ask themselves why would they want such solemnised marriages'. Is it for flaunting their status? If so, then it would be against mankind's very survival, as much as we humanity have to take partial blame for their condition, setting onto a path of painful hurt and conflict for all.

But if it is to protect parties, then would not a 'civil union' be enough, to protect parties?

As for outwardly display of affections, even heterosexuals are discouraged from such displays in our modern world, often with comments such as 'get a room' by others.

Ultimately, homosexuality is not and cannot be the path to evolution, nor test tube baby robots the ethical answer. However, we need not discriminate against those who are already who they are.

Mankind can only watch them and be reminded of our responsibilities, to spend more effort to ensure the innocent next generations would choose with their own free will for heterosexuality, and know the joys and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.

Live and let live.....

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by ronnieray123

 

I don't understand you protest.

Do you mean to say that, when AIDS was threatening Gay populations, among others, you donated money for research for a cure, and maybe for AIDS medication to be distributed among the inflicted poor and suffering, but asking for equal rights for Gay and Lesbian couples is just one step too far, and not charitable of them?

Again we have another person who is intentionally ignorant..or worse
Equal rights??? by asking you to call it by another name is denying someone rights??? really. So if we called what straight people do marriage, and we called what gay people do..........I dunno lets call it Steve, or Bill.....I do not care what you call it really.
What is your obsession with insisting it is called the same thing....or some right is being denied you.
Does McDonalds have the right to call their burger a Whopper? No, because that name is taken.
Does BurgerKing have the right to call their burger a BigMac? No, that name is taken as well.
Golly they are both 2 pieces of bread with some hamburger in them.....shouldn't they be called the same thing?

I know, I know..It's different....because you say it is. Can't argue with that kind of authority now can I?

I just do not get people who can not understand the simplest of explanations, so I will try to make it even more easy to understand.
My neighbor down the street comes by, he tells me Ron me and my friend are really sick, need to raise a lot of money to see if we can cure this .....so i reach in my wallet and do what I can, because he is a neighbor and a fellow citizen,
Now I go to this same neighbor and I say, listen man, the word marriage is really close to my heart, would you mind choosing a different word ? and he tells me to go get screwed.
Its not about religion or politics......have it your way, and just to stick my finger in your eye, I hope Romney gets elected and puts and end to this......you had a chance to be cool about it and instead chose conflict..

If I said ok have the word marriage if it means that much to you......and for me I ask you in return to keep your gay behavior at home......would you be willing to do that for me?

Originally posted by ronnieray123

Equal rights??? by asking you to call it by another name is denying someone rights??? really.

Absolutely! 100%

Separate but Equal - - is not Equal.

I just do not get people who can not understand the simplest of explanations

Neither do I.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SunnyDee

Same with my marriage, and I'll go one further.....we believe marriage is a personal meaningful thing, a deep commitment. It has more meaning than just a tax break, in fact that never crossed our minds when we decided to marry. Marriage has more meaning than just a religious right of passage.

Do you have a legal marriage.

Did you have the choice to have a legal marriage?

We're on the same side here, annee. I was just pointing out that gays want to get married for the same reasons I did, to show our love and commitment, not just some tax benefits. And that is why they are fighting for gay "marriage" not just a civil union.