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CNN: "Is Gun Control The Answer?" Here We Go Again.

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posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
I am not about gun control, but I have always wondered why we need to purchase military grade weapons? What would one need a fully automatic military assault rifle for? I have never understood that. I could see limiting guns to just hunter type guns, like rifles and pistols. I do not understand why someone would need an assault rifle for? I have never seen anyone go out hunting with an AK-47 before, so why does someone need an AK-47? That doesn't make any sense.


my sentiments exactly, although i can see where the person that replied to you is coming from also.

i have no problem with responsible, trained, law abiding citizens having guns. i dont think its unreasonable to monitor and enforce stricter laws to ensure the guns are kept out of the hands of criminals and lunatics. automatic jail time, no plea deals and strict enforcement if you are caught w a gun without the proper permits in my opinion is a reasonable solution.




posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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More people die in auto accidents than in gun crimes. Outlaw all cars!

More people die in pharmocological mis-haps/medical malpractice than in gun crimes. Outlaw medicine and doctors!

More people commit suicide than are killed in gun crimes. Outlaw killing yourself!

More people die from liver disease or cirrhosis than are killed in a gun crimes. Outlaw alcohol!

In fact, Violent Homicide no longer even rates in The Top 15 Causes of Death in the U.S.! And "Violent Homicide" includes strangulation, stabbing, blunt force trauma or any other available means of causing death violently.

This whole "Gun Control" BS is a red herring! It is predicated upon a false notion of "Security" which can never be achievevd under the human condition.

"An armed society is a polite society!" - Author Unknown



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by TWISTEDWORDS
I am not about gun control, but I have always wondered why we need to purchase military grade weapons? What would one need a fully automatic military assault rifle for? I have never understood that. I could see limiting guns to just hunter type guns, like rifles and pistols. I do not understand why someone would need an assault rifle for? I have never seen anyone go out hunting with an AK-47 before, so why does someone need an AK-47? That doesn't make any sense.


To limit any ONE thing in a certain category is to embark upon the progressively easier limitations of any and all other things in that category. Once one right is removed, it is progressively easier and easier to remove other rights. In order to protect our rights, it is necessary to view them as one big right ~ not a set or subset of smaller rights.

Some guys (girls, too, but guys in particular) just like big "toys." I see nothing wrong with that, even if I do not enjoy them.

Most importantly, to my mind, is that criminals have them (the military grade firearms) and will always have them. If criminals have them, then law abiding citizens need to be able to level the playing field by having legal access to them, too. You don't take a slingshot to a gun fight. It's proven that their is less criminal activity in open carry areas. Another poster on what is now (I believe) the previous page, wrote a well worded and quite informative post about the decrease in crime rates with open carry, i.e., a leveled playing field.

Lastly, IMHO, it's always important to remember that just because something doesn't make sense to ME, doesn't mean it doesn't make perfect sense to someone else. Example: I virtually never watch television and haven't since I was a teenager (almost 40 years now). I absolutely do not understand WHY people waste hours of time watching what I consider utter trash on television. But it seems the masses (my husband among them) enjoy watching it for hours on end. It remains a complete mystery to me. So I have to accept that others see sense in something that I see as utter nonsense and a complete waste of time; and, though I do not understand it, I do not have the right to limit it for someone else due to my *opinion.*

=)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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That's right! Take something that is absolutely anecdotal and crucify the world with it.

This is what we get for the foolish path that we all put up with.

The abc's of histrionics.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut

my sentiments exactly, although i can see where the person that replied to you is coming from also.

i have no problem with responsible, trained, law abiding citizens having guns. i dont think its unreasonable to monitor and enforce stricter laws to ensure the guns are kept out of the hands of criminals and lunatics. automatic jail time, no plea deals and strict enforcement if you are caught w a gun without the proper permits in my opinion is a reasonable solution.


LENGTH WARNING! That is said somewhat humorously; however, I cannot get across what I am hoping to get across to you without some length involved. I could be wrong, but I believe that you are young. The young have tunnel vision - it's not a disparagement against the young - it is what it is. So, I'm asking you to bear with me in this.

You cannot take one thing away from a people without eventually taking all things away from a people. I am Native American. Our People had everything taken away from them under the excuse of protecting us. First our lands, then our food sources, then our weapons and then, finally, those who could not escape and hide in plain sight by pretending to be white were put on Reservations. Even prior to that, once our weapons were gone, thousands upon thousands were massacred with better weapons. Read up on the Sand Creek Massacre.

When you allow a governmental entity to begin protecting you, you allow them to begin deciding your life.

You could easily say that I have no personal experience with what happened to my ancestors; however, unless you are Native American, you do not know how our stories are passed on; therefore, it would be incorrect to say I do not have personal experience.

Have you ever been on a Reservation? Picture a third world Country and you've got a very good picture. They did it first to us. They did it next to others with the Welfare Act - you can have free housing, a check every month that increases with each child you bear, food stamps, health benefits, etc. ... but there is ONE catch to that. You cannot have a husband in the house. So, they "stole" the father figures of the many with the promise of taking care of them. All they had to do was give up that father figure. Do you follow? Since the 1960s - over 50 years now - we have inner urban areas filled with people who have no idea what a family is. They do not know what it is to have a father figure in the home. There is no one to guide them. The mothers have learned, by generational example, that men impregnate them, abuse them, leave them, occasionally visit the kids and the mother's "job" is to get another man to father another child .... rinse and repeat. The government "saved" all those people by destroying the family. Now look what we have with the welfare crowd.

IF you allow the government to take ONE more thing away from ANY American citizen, there will be no hope left. There is no hope on the Reservations. There is no hope in the ghettos and inner urban areas. The only hope left of any scale at all lies in the upper lower to lower upper classes. Take ONE more thing away from American citizens and it will launch an avalanche of a deterioration of rights. Look at the deterioration of rights that has occurred just due to the Transportation Security Authority. Have they secured anything? No. There is article after article proving that they are ineffective at anything other than stealing, humiliating, debasing and intimidating. What is the problem there?

The problem there is that 9/11 happened in 2001 - eleven years ago. If you were, say, 6 or 7 years at the time of 9/11, it is very unlikely that you have any memory of being able to go greet someone as they come off the plane; you have no memory of entering the airport grounds without your vehicle being stopped and checked; you have no memory of entering an airport without going through the weapons screening devises; you have no memory of airport freedom. So, you are already accustomed to having your freedom of movement limited. It is nothing new to you; it has become the accepted norm. Now they are putting TSA into bus terminals, subways and there is talk of it being implemented on our roadways. Imagine not being able to drive where you wanted to without being stopped and randomly checked along the way.

Removal of any freedom begins the rapid descent into removal of ALL freedoms. We do not need the TSA; they are ineffective and have stopped nothing from happening except getting the public accustomed to being frisked and searched ... and people are willing to do that in order to fly. By the time those 6 and 7 years olds are old enough to fly where they want to, when they want to, it will be accepted by those then ADULTS that "this is how it's always been" because this is how it's always been to THEM.

Continued in next post.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Part II

Why was TSA implemented? For our security ... "the government will take care of us" ... only it has no intention of taking care of us in quite the way so many believe it will.

Now, because YOU and a few others believe that only certain firearms "should" be permissible, they take away semi-automatics. You and many others don't understand that a semi-automatic is no more an "assault" weapon than a garden hose is an "assault" weapon. If you beat the crap out of someone with a garden hose, leaving them bruised, jaw broken, bleeding, etc. (which IS possible), then the garden hose just became an "assault" weapon because YOU assaulted someone with it.

So, a limited amount of time passes, and all honest people have complied with turning in their firearms as each type has successively become unlawful to possess. Who is left with weapons? Criminals and government. The good have nothing but pitchforks, garden hoses and sling shots. Who will protect you? You won't because you can't. Your neighbor won't because you aided in the effort to remove what protection your neighbor might have offered you.

I'm presuming you're an American citizen. I believe you have the right to do WHAT you want, WHERE you want and WHEN you want so long as it does not harm another or remove their peaceable enjoyment of their property. I do not know you, but if you want to paint your house pea green and it's next door to mine, I will stand with you against the rest of the neighborhood that, no matter how ugly it is, it is YOUR RIGHT to paint your house pea green. Even if I knew you were anti-gun ownership and you were threatened, but I had a firearm, I would use it to protect your life because you are my fellow American.

Your OPINION, not matter how ill conceived and tunnel visioned it is, is your RIGHT ... so long as you do not harm me or other citizens. By advocating to remove the right to possess ANY firearm from a law-abiding citizen, you are putting them in danger - they cannot protect their homes, they cannot protect their families, they cannot protect you.

Do you know that FEMA has the power, in an emergency situation, however the sitting President determines that 'emergency' to be, to relocate you? Oh, yes, they do! How? Reagan signed an Order. Do you know that, in an emergency situation, you are not allowed to have more than 2 weeks of food in your possession? How? Kennedy signed an Order. ALL those Orders are still valid. Thousands upon thousands of them and the public is virtually fully ignorant of them. Yet, let just one sitting President decide (under the terms of the Patriot Act) that there is "civil unrest" or a "declared emergency" and our government can implement every last one of them.

There is ONE thing and one thing only standing in the way of a complete takeover and that is the right to bear arms - not one or two kinds of arms - ANY arms. We are not limited by the Constitution as to WHAT we can bear; therefore, it is unConstitutional to tell Americans what firearms they can and cannot have.

If YOU are complicit in pushing for the limitation of firearms, then YOU are only fully complicit, but fully guilty, of the downfall of what we know as America and have helped usher in a Dictatorship.

Are you one of the ones who believes America is a Democracy? We are NOT a Democracy; we are a Constitutional Republic and it was set up that way because throughout history EVERY Democracy has always ended as a dictatorship. Look it up. Please, please look it up.

That Constitution that you and others who share your opinion would continue to shred is a Treaty, in a sense. It was a Treaty the Founding Fathers made with the citizens of this (then) brand new Country. At the time that it was written, my People were "savages." To this day, we are referred to in the Declaration of Independence as "savages." We became human beings in 1924. We were not even citizens OR human beings when our Warriors made the greatest U.S. contribution to WWI: Code Talkers. We were not freed from Federal supervision until 1953 - couldn't leave the Rez without special permission and/or a sponsor.

So, we have not yet been "human beings" in the eyes of the government for even 100 years yet; we've been out from under their "supervision" for less than 60 years. But we have watched. Oh, we have watched.

Any most of you have learned nothing. You do not study the lessons of history when those lessons are in your own front yard. Your arrogance is equal to that of the ancient Romans believing it will never happen to you.

I tell you it IS happening, it HAS BEEN happening and they are about to wind it up. All they lack is a few more like you to support them taking away the last chance you have to save yourself.

One poster on this thread several pages back - the guy wearing the Batman mask - said to give the police the authority to shoot on site anyone with a firearm.

Continued



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Part III

Read about Sand Creek Massacre. Read about Wounded Knee. Read about Chief Bowles and the Texas Cherokee. Read what was done to US because it is what they are doing now to YOU.

They practiced on us. They refined on others with the Welfare Act. Now they are perfecting on YOU.

There is a thread on ATS right now about someone who got his Facebook account shut down because he posted on the President's FB page expressing his anger and outrage about the President asking people to have their wedding guests donate to his campaign instead of giving them a gift and about some other issue. You think you have free speech? No, you do not. Do not say what this President does not want to hear. If that is not the hallmark of dictatorship, then you tell me what is. I am NOT saying our President is a dictator; I am saying that each successive President and each successive Congress is proving that they believe they are above us.

The new HeathCare system? Welcome to Indian Health Services. Better get sick all you can before March because the money will run out by then and you'll have to wait until next year. You bunch of reckless, thoughtless, historically ignorant FOOLS!

Do you know what you are fighting for? You are fighting for no warmth in winter; no food when you are hungry; clothing when it is alloted to you; no clean water, no decent living conditions, being forced to go where you are told to go. And those in power are laughing at you because you are SO unwilling to investigate the truth that you make their job easier.

You stupid fools are making their jobs EASY! At least we fought; we fought until there were none left to kill but our children and our women. Those like you do not even fight because you do not know how to be men.

You know NOTHING of how to live without all of your modern conveniences, yet you give them away. You know NOTHING of how to protect yourself, yet you would take it from those who do. You know NOTHING of how to feed and clothe yourself and your family but you are working toward giving up those things as quickly as you can.

You are as ignorant and uneducated as a baby thrown into the thickets forest and rankest desert, yet you walk there willingly, as quickly as you can, and with the intent of dragging all others with you because you THINK you know something.

You'd better learn something fast, ignorant one.

I hope you enjoy your Reservation more than we have enjoyed ours.

I am SeesFar. My eyes and my tongue are straight and I have spoken the truth to you. Do not turn to me when you destroy your world and mine along with it. I will not see you.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by conspiracy nut
 


I could take out just as many unarmed people if not more with my .22......
Caliber is not really an issue.


if u can wound and kill that many people in 2 minutes w that gun it should be illegal. the only way i think you have a reason to have that kind of gun is if we are being invaded. in that case you should have a extra special permit proving that you are properly trained and not crazy.


Guns are not the problem sir. Mentally ill and crazy's are the problem.

Consider the fact that not ONE gun was used by the OK City Bomber/Tim McVeigh.
Consider the fact that not ONE gun was used on 9/11.
The guys that brought those planes down didnt have guns. They had box cutters!



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by jeepthing07
 


well the gun range he wanted to shoot at saw right through him. holmes called the gun range and left a voice message that spooked the owner out, incoherent and stumbling, weird speech etc etc. the gun shop owner knew right away that holmes wasnt playing w a full deck. holmes own mother knew he wasnt playing w a full deck.


Are you referring to her saying "you have the right person" when they contacted her?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by SeesFar
 


Yeah, people like him never really have an argument except for exagerations, and even lies about topics like this one. But you will see, he or some other will come back still claiming "all guns are evil, civilians don't need weapons, and all weapons should be banned"... That's their only argument.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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First they came for the guns but I did not own any.
Next they came for the gold and I did not have any.
Then they came for the dissenters but I had kept quiet.
Next they came for the farmers' lands but I was a city dweller.
Then they came for the Christians' bibles but I had quit praying.
Finally they came to take me to a camp to be chipped and inoculated...
And I did not want to go but there was no one left capable of stopping them.
edit on 23-7-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic911
 


I've lived in Wyoming where open carry is allowed. The police don't stop you for open carry, and although not everyone does it, there are people who do, more so in the open fields, if they are exploring etc, and I would do the same because you don't know what you can encounter out there, and a knife or even a machete would not stop some of the beasts you can encounter in the wilds of Wyoming.

The crime there is almost non-existant. There is, and has been a problem with drugs, which what I have been told by old timers and younger people began about 15 years ago or so, but still criminals know not to mess with people up there because most civilians do have weapons.

The only things you can't do, according to the law, is have a weapon concealed on you without a license, and if you have a weapon in your car it must be on sight at all times.

One night, when I had gone exploring in the mountains, it got a bit late and I had to sleep on the side of the road in my truck, that night was cold, which is why I didn't get my tent out; apparently one of the people living in the area saw me, and thought there was something going on since I was close to his house, but was parked on county/public property.

One cop went to see what I was doing. I was sleeping in the truck with my .45 acp on sight and close enough that I could reach it in case it was needed, but when I saw it was a cop of course I didn't make a move to it. He asked me what I was doing, of course he saw my gun, and I explained it to him, he checked my info and after about 5 minutes he let me go bak to sleep and went on his way. The next day I went on my way without any problems.

In Wyoming some people still leave their houses open during the day. Whenever you need coffee, or to buy something to eat at a gas station, or at the groceries, people would leave their cars with the keys and ignition on, more so during winter, and nobody would even try to get your car. In the years I lived there I became used to it as well, since I lived most of my adult life in military bases and even during civilian life all over Florida, it had to become a habit because in Florida you don't do any of that.

Anyway, which are the cities in the U.S. with the most crimes, and even gun crimes?... Illinois, New York, etc, states which have banned, and or heavily restrict firearms...

The UK, and even other nations where guns have been banned from civilians have been experiencing an increase in crimes, and even gun crimes, because criminals don't care about laws, and all of them get their weapons illegally, except when gun-grabbers in the U.S. give it to them like the Obama administration did to the Mexican drug cartel during operation "Fast and Furious".

edit on 23-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: errors



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by SeesFar
 


Yeah, people like him never really have an argument except for exagerations, and even lies about topics like this one. But you will see, he or some other will come back still claiming "all guns are evil, civilians don't need weapons, and all weapons should be banned"... That's their only argument.


Can anyone explain why they lack the ability for discourse; insisting, instead to re-type the same thing over and over like they've been assimilated into some bizarre borg? Do they simply lack the skills for give-and-take conversation?

You are right, though. It *does* seem to be their only argument.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by SeesFar
..
Go read the stats on Switzerland and see what arming citizens with military grade assault rifles does for the crime and murder rates: here

Leveling the playing field between honest citizens and criminals is what stops crime. It is historically proven, currently proven and an irrefutable fact.


And civilians in Switzerland REALLY have BIG GUNS, and fully automatic weapons, when in the U.S. fully automatic weapons are banned, and many of the big weapons people have in Switzerland are not legal in the U.S.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by SeesFar
 


Seesfar, I know what you are saying. People who have experienced, and/or know the real past of nations like the U.S., and other nations can see that you are right, but for at least almost 100 years, and even longer, people in the U.S. have been slowly brainwashed and indoctrinated into accepting a nanny state that "will solve all their problems for them."

I wasn't born in the U.S., I was born and lived part of my live in Havana Cuba, and I remember the things that happen/happened there. A part of my family still lives in Cuba, and despite the lies coming from people like Moore, in Cuba people do not get good medical care.

Most people in Cuba lack the necessary, including food. I know friends who didn't, and don't have a large family and because of this they would go hungry for up to a week at a time. Even in my own house (in Cuba), and in my grandmother's house ( in Cuba) there were times when there was only a stale piece of bread and maybe some rice to eat for the day/night. I also went back to live with my family for about 3 months in Cuba, back in the year 2000, and things were worst than I remembered, and now things are even worse.

Every month we have to send money, medicine, and once in a while when we can we also send some clothes through friends, or family members living in the U.S. who go visit family in Cuba, or through agencies, because all these things, including food has been lacking since the Cuban revolution, and since castro took power.

I've also lived in Spain/Portugal and know what life is like in Europe. My parents and I came to the U.S. when I was 17 years old, and we have been noticing the same changes that occurred in Cuba happening in the U.S.

Since I became a member of this website, I have been trying to warn people of the similar changes that happened much faster in Cuba, but that are being implemented slowly in the U.S.

Several people, including high ranking former military personnel who served in socialist/communist nations have been trying to warn Americans for decades of this fact that socialism is being implemented in the U.S., and this has been a plan of the global elites who have been playing chess with the world for over 100 years at least.

Many of the things that those of us who survived socialism/communism have been warning about have come true. But one of the people who has been right about pretty much everything he said the global socialist/communist elites want and had planned to implement and which he predicted would occur, have happened, or are being implemented as we chat about it.

That person, Anatoliy Mikhaylovich Golitsyn, was/is the highest ranking officer of the KGB of "former" communist U.S.S.R. to have ever defected to the west. I will post on my next response a text of many of the predictions he made which have come true from a book he wrote in 1984, and which he has spoken about even a couple decades before he wrote the book.

I will also post the declared goals made by these global socialist/communist elites, which they "re-launched" and agreed on in 1963.

Here is a video about it.



And here is a description of part of the warning.


This is the astonishing McIlhany Report entitled The Perestroika Deception (2003) which features world known analyst and author Christopher Story who exposes the hidden facts behind the fake collapse of Soviet Union and communism in general.

Since 1989 the world has been told that the Soviet Union collapsed and that, except for several countries, Communism is dead and the U.S. won the cold war. The reality is quite the reverse. Everything we have seen since 1989 has been a massive and successful, multi-decade long deception strategy on the part of the KGB, the Soviet secret police. The Goal? To deceive the West and achieve the goal of Leninist strategy - a totalitarian world government or international police state.

We know this from the evidence provided by Anatoly Golitsyn the most important defector from the KGB who came to America in 1961. In 1980 he wrote a book, "New Lies for Old," published in 1984, which described the disinformation strategy and made specific predictions as to what the KGB would do, such as removing the Berlin Wall, changing the name of the KGB and other structures and the role played by Mikhail Gorbachev. An independent analysis showed that over 94 per cent of those predictions came true by 1991 and since then. That's how we know Golitsyn was correct.

Christopher Story, who first appeared on this show in 1995, is uniquely qualified to expose this conspiratorial strategy. Based in London, he publishes ten newsletters and reviews on economic, financial and political intelligence, including Soviet Analyst.

Those invaluable periodicals incorporate the understanding of post-1989 events provided by Golitsyn. He has published Golitsyn
's second book, Perestroika Deception, Joseph Douglas' Red Cocaine on the Soviet strategy of using drugs to sabotage the West and European Union Collective on the regional world government now in place over Europe and Britain.
...

www.youtube.com...

A lot of people from all over the world, and including many Americans don't want to hear it, or don't even care and would gladly accept, and allow these "changes" since they have become accostumed to the indoctrination, and even believe it.

edit on 23-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: errors



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Another former communist KGB officer, who has defected to the west and have also warned us about this plan is Yuri Bezmenov.

Here is a video interview in which he talks about the deception to the west, and how socialist/communists planned to turn the whole world, including allies against the U.S.

Listen to this interview done in 1984, and how what this man also warned us about has come to fruition.



Here is a small sample of what he talks about in written form.


This is G. Edward Griffin's shocking video interview, Soviet Subversion of the Free-World Press (1984), where he interviews ex-KGB officer and Soviet defector Yuri Bezmenov who decided to openly reveal KGB's subversive tactics against western society as a whole.

Bezmenov explains how Jewish Marxist ideology is destabilizing the economy and purposefully pushing the U.S. into numerous crises so that a "Big Brother" tyranny can be put into place in Washington, how most Americans don't even realize that they are under attack, and that normal parliamentary procedures will not alter the federal government's direction.

He then explains how Marxist leaders use informers to make lists of anti-Communist and other politically incorrect people who they want to execute once they - actually a Jewish oligarchy - come to power. The oligarch's secret lists include "civil rights" activists and idealistically-minded "useful idiot" leftists as well.

Bezmenov provides several real world examples of how Marxist leaders even execute and/or imprison each other. Also he explains how American embassy employees were known to betray Soviets attempting to defect, how there existed a "triangle of hate" in the Soviet government, why he realized that Marxism-Leninism was a murderous doctrine, and how the CIA ignored (or didn't care) about Communist subversion.

He also mentions that revolutions throughout history are never the result of a majority movement, but of a small dedicated and highly-organized group who seize power, whether for good or bad. Next he explains how the American mass media spread lies about life in the Soviet Union.

Bezmenov also explains how the LOOK magazine article falsely claimed that the Russian people were proud of their victory in the Second World War, where in reality the Judeo-Bolshevik-Communist-Marxist government was happy that Hitler had been defeated so that they could remain in power.

Find out how the KGB utilized various individuals to undermine the Western society in its morals and values.
...

www.youtube.com...
edit on 23-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: errors



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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Here is what I wrote about in a thread in 2007 about this same topic.

Let's see how many of Anatoliy Mikhaylovich Golitsyn predictions, which he wrote in 1984 in a book, have come true, as the plans the Kremlin had for the future, and read how many of these predictions, which were/are the goals of the global elites, have been implemented and are happening as we speak.


Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.
.................
The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."

Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States. The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.

www.umd.umich.edu...

Everything seems to be going exactly how Golitsyn said it would, and he wrote these things back in 1984 in a book.

Golitsyn has predicted everything that has happened ever since his defections in 1961, and pretty much everything he and other Russian military defectors have said about this master plan, has come true.

Here is some information on Anatoliy Golitsyn.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization fits in exactly with the goals of this plan.


In an implicit reference to the US and its pressure on Iran to end its nuclear weapons programme, he said that the SCO could “ward off the threats of domineering powers to use their force against and interfere in the affairs of other states”.

The summit was also attended by the leaders of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mongolia, India and four Central Asian former Soviet republics. A joint declaration signed by those attending appeared to back the Iranian President.
.............
The Russian press has been much more outspoken. “The main ideological message of this summit is growing anti-Americanism,” the Kommersant daily said.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Not to mention the call by Putin to start a new economy independent of the present one, and China, Iran and some others just went along...but i guess this is a good move some will claim...


Putin: Why Not Price Oil in Euros?
By Catherine Belton
Moscow Times
October 10, 2003


President Vladimir Putin said Thursday Russia could switch its trade in oil from dollars to euros, a move that could have far-reaching repercussions for the global balance of power -- potentially hurting the U.S. dollar and economy and providing a massive boost to the euro zone. "We do not rule out that it is possible.

www.globalpolicy.org...

Everything is going along exactly as was described in the master plan by Golitsyn.

edit on 23-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


Excellent information. I can see why you would want to revolt against socialism.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:33 AM
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See... people keep saying... "Guns don't kill people, people do".... This is not really correct.... it is a combination of the two that makes the action happen.... but that's beside the point really...

I understand what people are saying... that lots of sane people own guns, and that if someone wants to kill you they will, whether guns are controlled or not...

but my argument is this.... you are right, it is the person in control of the gun that initiates the action and makes the deed happen, however, some people are just not responsible or intelligent enough to be given such immense power... the power of life and death.

All these people arguing that we should control cars, because they also kill people are missing the point.... a car is not designed to kill, it is not it's prime reason for being made.... therefore the argument is foolish....

I have no real problem with people owning Hand guns... albeit I am from the UK.... but please.. can you give me some valid reasons for a normal everyday person to own an assault rifle such as an AK47... I cannot think of any.. and it is the proliferation of these type of weapons that makes these mass shootings easier to perpetrate.

You are quite right, it is the person the commits the act...... so, by that logic, gun control is a good thing, because some people just should not be given the option of owning weapons of any kind... they are not intelligent or responsbile enough...we all know people like this.....

So really, while arguing against gun control, you are really confirming it is needed... although you could call it "Muppet Control".... just got to stop the muppets from getting their hands on them...... In a society where ANYONE can get their hands on large ammounts of military grade weapons and ammunition... a proliferation of mass shootings is inevitable....

You see, it is these people that have a bad day, that have an argument with their spouse, the crimes that are committed on a whim... these are the crimes that turn into murders in America, these are the crimes that are spontaneous... now, with the proliferation of guns, it's easy to grab one to sort out any small grievance... if these people really had to work to source a firearm, you could guarantee that these petty disputes would not turn into murders.... by the time they got hold of one it would seem like just what it was.. a petty argument.

Saying all that though.... Canada has a higher percentage of firearm possession than the USA... but significantly less shootings..... so we could argue that is something to do with the American culture....something inherently wrong with the people of the nation themselves....

I am sorry America... but it is not a "right" to own a firearm..... it is a right be speak freely, it is a right to have children, (although that's also up for debate!) it is a right to be able to beleive what you wish..... it is not, and should not, be a "right" to own firearms.... you're just asking for trouble....

Look at this very recent shooting also mentioned here on ATS... the man that accidently shot his son thinking he was an intruder.... a perfect example to prove my point... if he did not have a handgun in the house...he would more than likely either shout to the intruder "who is it", at which point his son would answer and still be alive, or he would have jumped on him, wrestled a bit, and realised his mistake, and his son would still be alive. This man now has to live with this for the rest of his life...... all thanks to the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude of American citizens... This has to change... and I feel sorry for you if you cannot see this....

Anyway.. just my 2 cents....

PA



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by PerfectAnomoly
 


Well first off, owning a gun is a right in the US. Moving on from that.

You can't just walk into a gun store, then walk out an hour later to go kill your wife or whatever. There is the waiting period and checks you must go through. The "crimes of passion", they already have a gun, and there is no possible way to predict that. Pointless to try.

There are over 300 million guns in the US, over 12 million registered hunters. When you compare that to gun crime stats, you get the picture. For every one gun used in a crime, there are a million that were not. For every one person that snaps, there are a whole bunch that do not.





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