Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Sure we could go there.
Excluding non-violent offenders and perpetrators of crimes without actual victims or even pre-crime style criminals the percentage of actual violent,
hostile and dangerous people is very low. In the single percentages low.
Complete lack of law and any enforcement does not chaos make. I would wager that chaos is too difficult to maintain very long for even the most
violent and dangerous of that small percentage.
This fear of anarchy is irrational. History has no evidence that a lawless society is "lawless" as fiction tells it. In fact history is bountiful
with stories of groups creating havoc and governments destroying lives and civilizations. Not individuals without law. Sadly we'll never know because
the fear rules the lives of so many and offers the most sadistic humans a means to establish control over many others ala institution of government.
Agreed; historically it has worked. And while I agree with you that it would not last long, it would be incredibly violent and especially in certain
parts of the Country. Those parts, unfortunately, have the most stringent gun laws and, therefore, there would be a lot of innocents left as more or
less sitting ducks. Sadly, the phrase "collateral damage" came to mind as I typed that. But I believe the sad reality is that if we are to have
any hope of righting this Country, there will be collateral damage.
However, a society without laws has not worked without a firm network of a strong social censure in which all voluntarily participate and, more
importantly, actually believe in. We (the Native Americans) did not have "laws," as such, but we had strong customs that were observed and
significant consequences depending upon the offense if the customs were not observed. Want to be a wanton wh*re? The women would see to it that you
would do so with your nose notched or the tip cut off - then everyone would see what you were. Want to commit rape? That's your call, but if the
women let you live and if the Clan let you stay, you would have to try your next offense without a very vital part. There was order and hierarchy
within the Clan - the lowest (the lazy) would be provided for but their social standing was embarrassingly minimal - they were, at best, tolerated as
a necessary embarrassment. They would not be left to starve but they did not have everything handed to them, either. The greatest (the best hunters,
the hardest workers, the most virtuous women, the wisest) had the best social standing but that was often achieved not only by their industry and
honorable actions, but by how much they gave away.
George Copway (Kahgegabowh), an Ojibwa Chief, likely stated it best: "Among the Indians there have been no written laws. Customs handed down from
generation to generation have been the only laws to guide them. Every one might act different from what was considered right did he choose to do so,
but such acts would bring upon him the censure of the Nation.... This fear of the Nation's censure acted as a mighty band, binding all in one social,
Even among the Europeans who invaded this Country and eventually turned it into "theirs" and what it is now, there was, initially, social censure.
STRONG social censure. Where did it go? Who so willingly gave it up? Social censure was the web upon which Nations grew and societies flourished
for thousands of years and look what has happened in the less than 100 years since it was given up.
It is my personal belief that we have descended into the liberal-minded, moral trash pit that is now our Country (and people) because we traded social
censure for limp laws.
Would resultant carnage make people re-think social censure? Would it change their minds on what is acceptable and what is not? We rid ourselves of
public hangings for convicted criminals and gave them life sentences, instead, and crime soared. We stopped expecting people to pull their own weight
and rewarded them food, shelter, etc. and now they EXPECT it. Take it away and they will rise up.
There is an answer out there. It will not be a pretty one. True what you said about fear. Specifically excluding
our active military
and Veterans, we have become with a few exceptions, a nation of cowards. I know we have non-military men who are not cowards, but how many? I see
far too many "men" who are afraid of their own shadows.
Do we have enough real men left? Do we have enough women with the courage to be a woman and do a woman's job while letting a man do his job?
Neither is good long without the other; but, paired properly, a man who knows his job and a woman who knows hers makes a team that is nearly
Let's say, for purpose of discussion, that our Country "went there." How long would it take? How do you think we could re-implement social
censure if we were to do away with laws and bleeding hearts?