Signs of the end times in Islam

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The Bible says one of them is Elijah.

No it does not say who any of the witnesses are anywhere in the bible. It's never even implied who they are. Many people make assumptions due to the reasons you gave but it does not state it. Elijah is shown to appear in the end times but there isn't any direct biblical reference to him being one of the witnesses.

reply to post by drivers1492


Malachi 4:5. In Revelation one of the two witnesses has the authority to call down fire from heaven, Elijah did that three times in the OT. The witness also has the authority to keep it from raining, again, Elijah did that as well.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by drivers1492

 

Malachi 4:5. In Revelation one of the two witnesses has the authority to call down fire from heaven, Elijah did that three times in the OT. The witness also has the authority to keep it from raining, again, Elijah did that as well.

edit on 19-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Some say one of them will be Moses, but i think it could be Enoch because of the whole appointed once to die and then the judgement clause and because we haven't heard doodly squat out of Enoch since he was removed. I don't entirely understand that process. There's not a whole lot to go on with Enoch according to the book of giants and the book of jasher he was a king right around the time the nephilim were going on a rampage.

Ofcourse Elisha recieved more power than Elijah when he took up Elijah's mantle if i remember correctly.

Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The Bible says one of them is Elijah.

No it does not say who any of the witnesses are anywhere in the bible. It's never even implied who they are. Many people make assumptions due to the reasons you gave but it does not state it. Elijah is shown to appear in the end times but there isn't any direct biblical reference to him being one of the witnesses.

And just how would he appear in the end times if not as one of the two witnesses? No other prophets are spoken of save the two witnesses so logically he would be one of them, not to mention there were two major prophets seen with Christ before he ascended and they were waiting for him. One was Elijah and the other was Moses so there's no doubt they will have some part of his return.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


There is debate, but my reasons are the same as your's. Enoch was caught up right before the flood, and he was a gentile prophet. Yes, Elisha asked for and received a "double portion". What is interesting when you look at the text is that in scripture 8 miracles are attributed to Elijah and 16 are attributed to Elisha. Most people forget that Elijah called down fire from heaven on 2 other occasions.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


I do not believe your Isa is my Lord Jesus Christ. I know what Isa means in Arabic.

That's absurd. Arab Christians call Jesus "Isa." As I explained it's no different than calling him by his name in another dialect like Spanish or Greek for instance.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

 

Nice post OP. I am often exposed to Christianity, but less so with Islam. I do indeed see much more that correlates to Christianity than doesn't, in regards to what Islam believes of Revelations.

Informative and interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Well any questions you have I'm more than willing to answer to the best of my ability, insha'Allah

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by drivers1492

 

Malachi 4:5. In Revelation one of the two witnesses has the authority to call down fire from heaven, Elijah did that three times in the OT. The witness also has the authority to keep it from raining, again, Elijah did that as well.

edit on 19-7-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

That doesn't mean that it was Elijah and Elijah being able to do this is not the same as Revelation saying it was Elijah which is the claim that you made. So, sorry, but you are being dishonest about what the Bible says.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Malachi 4:5 is pretty clear. "Day of the Lord" is an OT Hebraism for the day the Lord returns and continues for His reign. Does it say Elijah or not?

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by NOTurTypical


I do not believe your Isa is my Lord Jesus Christ. I know what Isa means in Arabic.

That's absurd. Arab Christians call Jesus "Isa." As I explained it's no different than calling him by his name in another dialect like Spanish or Greek for instance.

I did not say Isa is not Jesus in Arabic, I said your version of Isa is not Yeshua ha'Moshiyach, the Lord Jesus Christ. Read Joel 3 or Isaiah 63:1-4. That's what the Lord is going to do upon His return. And depending on how good your history is you'll soon discover every one of those nations are Muslim today. Your Isa is NOT Christianity's Lord Jesus Christ.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yes it does, but it does not say he will be one of the two witnesses. You are grasping at straws and reverse engineering. You are forcing a connection where one doesn't exist.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


No, I am presenting 2000 years worth of Christian teaching. People debate the identity of the second of the two witnesses, not Elijah. Half the scholars believe it will be Moses and half the scholars believe it will be Enoch. That's why people were asking John the Baptist if he was "Elijah that was to come" when Jesus began His ministry.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No that's because they thought that Elijah was indeed coming back since he never died. They didn't ask John the Baptist that because they thought Elijah was going to be one of the two witnesses. They did not know there were even going to be two witnesses until someone made up the book of Revelation and credited it to the apostle John.

Again nothing in the Bible says that one of the two witnesses is going to be Elijah. There's nothing that even indicates it will be a Biblical Prophet.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Nothing except church history, thousands of years of rabbinical teaching, Malachi 4:5, and Christ's words. Other than all that, yeah there is nothing.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The Bible says one of them is Elijah.

No it does not say who any of the witnesses are anywhere in the bible. It's never even implied who they are. Many people make assumptions due to the reasons you gave but it does not state it. Elijah is shown to appear in the end times but there isn't any direct biblical reference to him being one of the witnesses.

And just how would he appear in the end times if not as one of the two witnesses? No other prophets are spoken of save the two witnesses so logically he would be one of them, not to mention there were two major prophets seen with Christ before he ascended and they were waiting for him. One was Elijah and the other was Moses so there's no doubt they will have some part of his return.

I have no clue how he would just appear. But to infer that since the bible says that he will show up does not mean his role will be as one of the witnesses. I am not saying that this could not be the case, all I am saying is the bible does not say who the witnesses are. I do see the similarities of the fire to destroy, stopping rain, and plagues to support the idea it may very well be this biblical character but, to state that there is any direct verse to say who they are does not exist. Maybe he has some other purpose outside of the role of the witnesses.

reply to post by drivers1492

I have no clue how he would just appear. But to infer that since the bible says that he will show up does not mean his role will be as one of the witnesses. I am not saying that this could not be the case, all I am saying is the bible does not say who the witnesses are. I do see the similarities of the fire to destroy, stopping rain, and plagues to support the idea it may very well be this biblical character but, to state that there is any direct verse to say who they are does not exist. Maybe he has some other purpose outside of the role of the witnesses.

Prophets are witnesses and Elijah was a prophet therefore Elijah is a witness. Those who will come are already connected to him and the answer to their identity lies in the OT. The jews are waiting on Elijah, because he is prophecied to return. They thought Yeshua was Elijah at first because he could work miracles, but Yeshua denied being Elijah for being someone greater than even he. So that means Elijah hasn't returned yet, but that he will. Now you know who the first witness will probably be.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Could you please give me the verses your using to back up your statements. Like I pointed out, the bible doesn't say who they are. You can use the argument that he is coming back before the endtimes so therefore it must be him as one of the witnesses and I do understand your position. But, without scripture to support it you are only making an assumption. The only scripture you do have to support that this is who its going to be is to compare his life and what he did and what the witnesses will be able to do. So you are left with an assumption or your belief that your right. My argument is simple, it doesn't say who they are, just that they will appear, die, and be raised.