Trigger for past rapid sea level rise discovered

reply to post by eriktheawful


Exactly, very good question indeed... Oh and thank you for the informative reply.

How long do we have to wait before we know for sure?

It appears to me this too is inconclusive. Depending on what you read, you get different answers.

I read this information this morning. en.wikipedia.org... and found it linked to en.wikipedia.org... under " Causes for Ice Ages"

Milankovitch theory describes the collective effects of changes in the Earth's movements upon its climate, named after Serbian geophysicist and astronomer Milutin Milanković, who worked on it during First World War internment. Milanković mathematically theorized that variations in eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of the Earth's orbit determined climatic patterns on Earth through orbital forcing. The Earth's axis completes one full cycle of precession approximately every 26,000 years. At the same time the elliptical orbit rotates more slowly. The combined effect of the two precessions leads to a 21,000-year period between the astronomical seasons and the orbit. In addition, the angle between Earth's rotational axis and the normal to the plane of its orbit (obliquity) oscillates between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees on a 41,000-year cycle. It is currently 23.44 degrees and decreasing.

Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
S&F, great thread!

Here's some further examples of underwater discoveries of lost civilizations;

Alexandria, Egypt: Off the shores of Alexandria, the city of Alexander the Great, lie what are believed to be the ruins of the royal quarters of Cleopatra. It is believed that earthquakes over 1,500 years ago were responsible for casting this into the sea, along with artifacts, statues and other parts of Cleopatra’s palace.

Not exactly a "lost civilization" and not due to rising sea levels.

Bay of Cambay, India: A few years back discovered the remains of a vast 9,500 year old city. This submerged ruin has intact architecture and human remains. More significantly, this find predates all finds in the area by over 5,000 years, forcing historians to reevaluate their understanding of the history of civilazation in the region. The find has been termed Dwarka, or the ‘Golden City,’ after an ancient city-in-the sea said to belong to the Hindu god Krishna.

Dwarka is not in the bay of Cambay (Khambhat.) You are mixing up your fringe claims here.

There is nothing at all to the Bay of Cambay claim except a breathless and astonished Graham Hancock. Dwarka is a real find but, again, not a lost civilization and not due to rising sea levels.

Yonaguni-Jima, Japan: Discovered by a dive tour guide some twenty years ago, controversies have arisen around a mysterious pyramids found off the coast of Japan. These structures seem to have been carved right out of bedrock in a teraforming process using tools previously thought unavailable to ancient cultures of the region.

A natural formation very similar in morphology to the existing island of Yonaguni Jima. It sank about 2,000 years ago in an earthquake.

Havana, Cuba: A team of scientists continues to explore megalithic ruins found in the Yucatan Channel near Cuba. They have found evidence of an extensive urban environment stretching for miles along the ocean shore. Some believe that the civilization that inhabited these predates all known ancient American cultures. So far, only computer models of this mysterious underwater city exist.

It was a team of salvagers working for Castro - looking for gold (coins, bars, etc.) that picked up what, to them, appeared to be something weird in their side scan sonar.

Upon further review, National Geographic decided there wasn't enough information to even do a story on it.

No evidence of any civilization, and not "sunk" due to sea level rise.

North Sea, Europe: A lost natural landscape was found recently under the North Sea, once occupied by human hunter-gatherers over 10,000 years ago. What were once rivers, lakes and oceans are now all at the bottom of the sea, only made known through digital mapping. Scientists theorize that this amazingly well-preserved landscape was at the heart of an ancient civilization spread across Europe.

Doggerland, it's called.
This is an actual example. However, current theory is that, after most of it disappeared due to sea level rise, the rest was taken by a tsunami.

But, not a civilization. Possibly, some human culture was established there. Not that they didn't have plenty of time to move.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Regarding Doggerland, you are totally correct to point out that people had plenty of time to move. This area was submerged over a minimum period of 7'000 years, probably longer (starting around 18'000 BC). The tsunami resulting from the Storegga slide was thought to have ruptured the remaining land bridges, proving vital for the final "flooding" stages. There is evidence it was a biggie too - traces can be found up to 30 miles inland.

Slayer,
Star and flag for you. First flag I ever flagged.

Harte

Bay of Cambay, India

Actually no that was the claim but subsequent investigation has left more questions than answers, at best the question is still being debated but the evidence for a 'city' is very weak

Well it is too soon to release the findings since the expedition and investigation is still underway. However if you see the concentration of belief system in the region, it would certainly make sense if the city existed few thousand years ago and thus the concentrated existence of the particular god in that region.

Dwarka_Wiki

On another note, there was another topic on the sunken continent of Tamil on ATS. See the thread below. The ancient folklore and mythology talked about just that (a sunken bridge between the southern indian state of Tamil Nadu and the Island country of Sri Lanka). The interesting thing to consider is the time frame of some 10000 plus years ago is when these supposed events occured.

Sunken_Continent_Tamil_ATS_Thread

reply to post by Druscilla
Nicely put. I am thinking along the same line with the earth cycles.

reply to post by Xterrain
Been there, done that Except the class was related to philosophy and psychology The professor was also a guitar player in a underground band at nights. He has conflicting viewpoints to the philosophy.

Originally posted by Harte
Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
Dwarka is not in the bay of Cambay (Khambhat.) You are mixing up your fringe claims here.
There is nothing at all to the Bay of Cambay claim except a breathless and astonished Graham Hancock. Dwarka is a real find but, again, not a lost civilization and not due to rising sea levels.

Well majority of the sources claim to be in Cambay. Definitely not a lost civilization only a lost city though from an existing civilization

Cambay

Dwarka_Thread_ATS

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Harte
Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
Dwarka is not in the bay of Cambay (Khambhat.) You are mixing up your fringe claims here.
There is nothing at all to the Bay of Cambay claim except a breathless and astonished Graham Hancock. Dwarka is a real find but, again, not a lost civilization and not due to rising sea levels.

Well majority of the sources claim to be in Cambay. Definitely not a lost civilization only a lost city though from an existing civilization

Cambay

Dwarka_Thread_ATS

Gulf of Cambay (Khambhat):



See this page for location of Dwarka.

Dwarka is located just outside the Gulf of Kutch (you can see this gulf in the first link above as well.

Ancient Dwarka, the submerged part, is located right off the coast of present-day Dwarka, as this PDF clearly illustrates.

The region is subject to subduction, explaining the submersion. It is, in fact, ongoing.

Harte

reply to post by MamaJ


Wondering what future consequences we'll face via continued/increasing global warming and subsequent climate change it causes?

Here's some insight:

yaleglobal.yale.edu...

www.dailykos.com...

io9.com...

www.usatoday.com...

www.skepticalscience.com...

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by Harte
Ok. I'm assuming that the study paper is more accurate then my links (prolly older and/or not updated accordingly with the maps). Thanks for the corrected location link.

Originally posted by hp1229
reply to post by Harte

 

Ok. I'm assuming that the study paper is more accurate then my links (prolly older and/or not updated accordingly with the maps). Thanks for the corrected location link.

No problem, and you certainly can't be faulted.

There is so much crap posted on the web about the supposed site in the Khambhat Gulf that people have gotten the two things confused and posted this confused version on a multitude of websites.

Just be careful what you believe - there is no ancient town under the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay.) The entire thing was fabricated out of a couple of pieces of wood and some tube worm tunnels.

I kid you not.

Harte

Nice thread, thanks S&F.

I have always believed there to be many, often vast civilizations' habitations and archaeology under the oceans and seas. The current picture of archaeology based anthropology is essentially based on such a small amount of information, like a few pieces of a very large jigsaw.

There are likely to be 'finds' of such a substantially significant nature that would lead to the reevaluation of many current theories on evolution and early societies.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Thank you for the informative links.... Very thankful!

This leads me on a goose chase that Ive been on before.

When I begin to get down to the bottom of the cause I lean toward many factors, one being our place in the solar system, our Sun, human contribution, and more.

It seems to me as this is a way for our Planet to recitfy itself over time. Cycles happen for reasons that help to sustain her.

I believe our weather has become more extreme and unpredictable and will worsen in time before it actually gets better and stabilizes.

We may see more dangerous eqs and volcanic activity. Volcanic activity is really the only way I can determine for myself if we are going into another ice age or not. If more begin to go off in concert within a ten year span or so, then I may begin to say...ok... Here we go.

The recipe is no doubt starring at us in the face, but will it manifest and become a full blown soup is anyones guess.

Oh, I wanted to say that only last year ( and im 39) did I realize just how many volcanoes are in our oceans. Im still in awe.

Really, there is no way of knowing which are spewing and which are not.... Unless they have new instruments im unaware of as of today.

No doubt in my mind there are many streets and cities down there that are awaiting discovery. Its so exciting to think we may indeed be living in a time of great awareness and learning.

.

I think we also need to take into account the weight displacement factor with regards to rotational dynamics of the earth , gravitational anomalies and crustal plasticity when we think about the progressive end of the last ice age .
Depth is not a relevant measure of the time of a submerged structure... without these other factors we are pissing in he wind .
I have no doubts whatsoever that or history is on the bottom of the seas .

.

I just read this and thought of the thread....

For the poster that wondered about Greenland?? Here is some info from www.msnbc.msn.com...

A massive iceberg larger than Manhattan has broken away from the floating end of a Greenland glacier this week, an event scientists predicted last autumn. The giant ice island is 46 square miles, and separated from the terminus of the Petermann Glacier, one of Greenland's largest. The Petermann Glacier last birthed — or "calved" — a massive iceberg two years ago, in August 2010. The iceberg that broke off and floated away was nearly four times the size of Manhattan, and one of the largest ever recorded in Greenland. Although the new iceberg isn't as colossal as its 2010 predecessor, its birth has moved the front end of the massive glacier farther inland than it has been in 150 years, Andreas Muenchow, an associate professor of physical ocean science and engineering at the University of Delaware, said in a statement.

Also at the end of the artcile it reads...

The floating ends of glaciers, known as ice shelves, act as doorstops. When these ice shelves suddenly splinter and weaken or even collapse entirely, as has been observed in Antarctica, the glaciers that feed them speed up, dumping more ice into the ocean and raising global sea levels. "The Greenland ice sheet as a whole is shrinking, melting and reducing in size as the result of globally changing air and ocean temperatures and associated changes in circulation patterns in both the ocean and atmosphere," Muenchow said.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by phroziac

 

Its the potable water we are lacking, we would need to start harnessing the melt water now which we are not doing. The problem is making the water usable, even ocean water can be safe if processed, that requires infrastructure, and no one seems to want to build that.

The Australians and some Arab countries are building de-salination plants, some are in operation, they take a lot of electricity, although the very latest designs don't use as much.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Trigger for past rapid sea level rise discovered

Dr Gregoire, lead author of the study, said: “We didn’t expect our model to produce such a rapid sea level rise. We got really excited when we realised that the events we simulated corresponded to real events!”

The cause of rapid sea level rise in the past has been found by scientists at the University of Bristol using climate and ice sheet models. The process, named ‘saddle-collapse’, was found to be the cause of two rapid sea level rise events: the Meltwater pulse 1a (MWP1a) around 14,600 years ago and the ‘8,200 year’ event. The research is published today in Nature.....

Towards the end of the last ice age, at the time of mammoths and primitive humans, the climate naturally warmed. This started to melt ice at increasingly high elevations, eventually reaching and melting the saddle area between the ice domes. This triggered a vicious circle in which the melting saddle would lower, reach warmer altitudes and melt even more rapidly until the saddle had completely melted. In just 500 years, the saddles disappeared and only the ice domes remained.

I thought I'd stop in and post this story. It's an interesting read .

I wonder how many possible prehistoric coastal cultures/early civilization may have had to uproot and head inland or up fresh water river valleys during this period to avoid the sometimes quickly sometimes slowly rising ocean? The debate IMO as to whether there are ancient now submerged prehistoric cultures and possible early civilizations sites still rages.

We have some evidence of man made structures and habitats being discovered beneath many of the worlds coastlines and near shore locations.

As always, Stay tuned.

edit on 16-7-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Truly amazing, it explains alot. I always said that most civilizations try to stay by bodies of water for food, water and if possible travel. So when the water started to rise quickly or slowly whatever was built had to stay and they left if slowly or ran if quickly.

reply to post by Xterrain


Wow your a dolt, she obviously wanted to engadge with you sexually. I cant believe that some dudes have women throw themselfs at them and their more worried about underwater citys being wet instead of thier Dinks. YOu prolly would have made sweet love in Chile night after night talking afterwards about ancient civilizations and being in utter mental and physical Bliss. ...Moron!