Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes

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posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What?

Can you show us some exact examples of what if anything would have been positive for the majority of citizens ?

Maybe they actually prevented some worse disasters ?

We need the real facts and figures to compare.

Yikes !!


edit on Jul-16-2012 by xuenchen because:



Yeah...now go back further in time and you realize where the problem lies


It's not as if spending increased by an insane amount...the revenue side dropped massively though. Guess what happens when you buy stuff with money you don't have because suddenly you have a worse job making less money




posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by beezzer
You DON'T raise taxes during a recession.


1) the recession is technically over, but we are still in a disaster


Meh. We're in a recession.


2) polling shows the opposite to your suggestion for who will inherit the power


It's early. And are we believing polls on ATS now?



3) if your concerned about a recession, you don't demand a hobble to public employment..which has been the motto of the right wing since O took office.



You grow the private sector. Growing the public sector on taxes that aren't gained by working private sector is like building a house, but starting with the attic before you've built the foundation, first, second stories.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


The EPA did not even exist in 1961.

We got along just fine.

If we shut it down then we will save over $10 Billion!

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BTW, shut down the Department of Education. Turn it back to the individual states.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


The EPA did not even exist in 1961.

We got along just fine.

If we shut it down then we will save over $10 Billion!

-----------
BTW, shut down the Department of Education. Turn it back to the individual states.


The EPA was perhaps the only thing Nixon did that was helpful for the country as a whole. It was created because things were not all just fine...we were started to parasite destroy large areas, toxic lakes, etc.

the DOE is what seperates us from slave countrys whom keep their population stupid on purpose for power grabbing and surpression..Suggesting you want the DOE dissolved is demanding ignorance to be an option on the state level..for places like mississippi to abandon math, science, etc and instead have their criteria strictly on bible theology, etc..
You want that, go live in islam. DOE is covered by the commerce clause and is directly linked to the general welfare of the country as a whole.
Improving it..sure. Eliminating it? only slavers want that done (and the drones that are programmed to say that).

Consider what your rallying for...idiots and pollution...Idiocrocity was not a movie of perfection..it was a distopia we are supposed to fear.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Shut down the EPA. Ask yourself how we ever survived back in the year 1961???

We need the $10 Billion spent somewhere else. Give the $10 Billion to NASA.

There are too many clueless losers at the EPA.

Watch the video below.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


If by "getting along just fine" you mean everyone just dumped their toxic waste into rivers...yup


I wonder if we had allowed that since the 60s and the rivers and once beautiful US landscape would look horrible now...would you still consider it "getting along just fine". Because 50+ years of dumping toxic wastes like they did in the 50s before the EPA came along would have definitely ruined entire landscapes.

Think...just once...THINK before you post!



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


If by "getting along just fine" you mean everyone just dumped their toxic waste into rivers...yup


I wonder if we had allowed that since the 60s and the rivers and once beautiful US landscape would look horrible now...would you still consider it "getting along just fine". Because 50+ years of dumping toxic wastes like they did in the 50s before the EPA came along would have definitely ruined entire landscapes.

Think...just once...THINK before you post!


We can dispose of our toxic waste just fine without the EPA.

Just try it for 1 year and see what happens.

Lay off everyone there and turn off the power to the building.

You will see that the world does not come to an end.
----------

You see there? We really CAN reduce the size of the US government.

I'm heading over to the GSA next. Remember Jeff Neely? The guy in the tub?

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The Department of Education is next. Check out their budget.

Then go watch that movie: Waiting For Superman.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Personally I don't think we need to raise taxes.
We need to reform taxes.

You make X pay 20% have a nice day.
And that's all she wrote.

What is our tax code like? 3 million to some upwards estimates of 9 million words?
That's crazy. We need to reform the code.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Shut down the EPA. Ask yourself how we ever survived back in the year 1961???

I am not saying things don't need to change...they need to. But when the house is on fire, you don't smash down the house to stop the fire, you put water on it and fireproof the house.

the 1961 thing is redundant. modern corporations are far more a factor now with massive pollution, a population boom that has made the ecosystem in peril, etc.

I rally against corruption and waste like anyone else..but I see things like the EPA, DOE, etc as good organizations that require a lot of managment changing in order to function as the philosophy again.

As far as economic factors Gingrich keeps going on about...thats a stupid point he is making..sorry, but environmental stability comes before some corporations desire to make a buck...if economy takes precedence over environment, we will be living in toxic soup..its far more economical just to dump toxic sludge into the streams and lakes than to properly dispose of it. You need to hear the words they are saying..he said economic factors several times..meaning if a company pays off the locals, they can destroy anything they want...he wants to make the organization a paper dragon..he is a corporatist whom doesn't give a rats arse if plants destroy entire cities so long as corruption remains rife to local politicians with no sweeping laws to protect the citizens well being.

Seriously, stop "feeling" what the politicans are saying, and instead listen to the actual words...you may find out your rooting for what you really don't want...or not..perhaps you enjoy mad max films



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by kozmo


Obama just raised taxes on the middle class by the LARGEST amount in the history of this country! But, I mean, why pay attention to the facts, right?


The tax increases hit those individuals earning more than 200k a year or household incomes of 250k a year. Let's remember that the median family income in the United States is about 60k a year. Only about 1.5% of families earn more than 250k a year. They are not the middle class.

We can argue that it's a big tax increase, but it's not the biggest tax increase on the middle class.



I think your chrystal ball is busted! This tax increase called "obamacare" is going to hit over 75% of the middle class. Even though Pelosi got the bill passed so that we could see what was in it, apparently you failed to read it. There are over 30 new taxes and fees. Just about everyone who has looked at it is in agreement that over 75% of these costs get passed directly to the middle class... the people you were just talking about.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Did you watch that video? Newt spelled it out clearly.

Lunatics have taken over the asylum. Fire them all.

Try it for 1 year and then see if the world comes to an end.

I think we will all be pleasantly surprised.

OMG! Look! We really can reduce the size of the US government.

--------
If we switch to Herman Cains 9 - 9 - 9 tax plan we can fire half of the losers over

at the IRS.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

We can dispose of our toxic waste just fine without the EPA.

Just try it for 1 year and see what happens.

Lay off everyone there and turn off the power to the building.

You will see that the world does not come to an end.




For the past three decades, poor African nations have been used as
the dumping sites for hazardous toxic waste materials from
developed countries who are out to reduce the costs of disposing or
recycling these by-products of industries.

Source
In every instance where environmental regulations have been reduced or abandoned, corporations have turned it into a toxic dump haven with mass amounts of cancer,death,destruction.

Yes..the world does end for the areas that relax their environmental laws..all for the almighty buck.

The newt is suggesting relaxing envornmental regulations..neocons in general are wanting to totally destroy the epa.

Using hard facts, who benefits? what are the consequences played out over and over in 3rd world nations?

Your becoming clear on where you stand...destroy america...ya..I got it.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by kozmo


Obama just raised taxes on the middle class by the LARGEST amount in the history of this country! But, I mean, why pay attention to the facts, right?


The tax increases hit those individuals earning more than 200k a year or household incomes of 250k a year. Let's remember that the median family income in the United States is about 60k a year. Only about 1.5% of families earn more than 250k a year. They are not the middle class.

We can argue that it's a big tax increase, but it's not the biggest tax increase on the middle class.



I think your chrystal ball is busted! This tax increase called "obamacare" is going to hit over 75% of the middle class. Even though Pelosi got the bill passed so that we could see what was in it, apparently you failed to read it. There are over 30 new taxes and fees. Just about everyone who has looked at it is in agreement that over 75% of these costs get passed directly to the middle class... the people you were just talking about.


Oh yes! Now is a bad time to throw a huge ObamaTax at the American people.

Our economy is just barely moving along and we are sitting on a $16 trillion debt bomb.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Stop with the fear. ( Nancy Pelosis favorite tool)

We have the technology to dispose of our toxic waste in a safe way. Stop jumping

to the worst case scenario.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Stop with the fear. ( Nancy Pelosis favorite tool)

We have the technology to dispose of our toxic waste in a safe way. Stop jumping

to the worst case scenario.



You know as well as everyone else that if the EPA disappeared, companies would not dispose of their toxic waste in a safe manner. Doing so is more expensive then just dumping in in a river or landfill, which is the whole reason the EPA was formed in the first place.

You're either being disingenuous or you need to think more.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Stop with the fear. ( Nancy Pelosis favorite tool)

We have the technology to dispose of our toxic waste in a safe way. Stop jumping

to the worst case scenario.



You know as well as everyone else that if the EPA disappeared, companies would not dispose of their toxic waste in a safe manner. Doing so is more expensive then just dumping in in a river or landfill, which is the whole reason the EPA was formed in the first place.

You're either being disingenuous or you need to think more.


So certain are you.

This is the year 2012. We can dispose of our waste very easily.

Stop jumping to the worst case scenario. You sound like Nancy Pelosi.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


I like this budget cutting strategy. These federal agencies do more than waste money- they also protect the criminals and punish everyone else. I never understood the mentality that the more important something is (environment, education, etc.) the more distant and unaccountable the authority should be.

Let's get rid of the FDA too, while we're at it.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by seaside sky
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


I like this budget cutting strategy. These federal agencies do more than waste money- they also protect the criminals and punish everyone else. I never understood the mentality that the more important something is (environment, education, etc.) the more distant and unaccountable the authority should be.

Let's get rid of the FDA too, while we're at it.


We will have to drag the liberals kicking and screaming all the way.

I know what they're thinking.

If we let them shut down 1 agency, they will probably shut down another one!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!


Quick! Fear...More Fear!!....Okay..start name calling....stop them from reducing the

size of our magnificent government!



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Stop with the fear. ( Nancy Pelosis favorite tool)

We have the technology to dispose of our toxic waste in a safe way. Stop jumping

to the worst case scenario.


You suggest Nancy Pelosi uses fear? Well, see, this is called using facts...if Nancy is using facts, then I would say she is correct..and if a biproduct is fear of what simpy is, then thats what it is.

Your such a drone...so, with the fact that lowering EPA power = toxic mess..should we what...be happy? think its a fantastic idea? The facts are in stone...they are are what they are...its gravity..dropping a ball will make it fall to the earth..saying gravity exists is not using fear, its using facts

The technology is expensive..much cheaper to simply dump into low environmental protection areas, as demonstrated with reality.

Listen to yourself..just literally read what your writing.
Your saying ignore evidence (massive mountains of evidence), and instead destroy the protection we have and just...trust...corporate interests to..not make a buck but instead be responsible and caring verses do what they have done over and over everywhere they can.

I am thinking you can't even believe what your saying...its like some colbert parody your doing to show how just stupidly simpleminded the right is being here...I take that back..simple minded people have more sense than this..



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


Really.

Well, if you and I ever got a chance, we could probably knock the federal bureaucracy down to the size of a mall kiosk, and there'd be improvement all around.

Doubt they'd let us, though, so all we can do is watch in horror and disgust.





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