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Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes

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posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Their strategy is to bring over the coveted Value Added Tax from Europe.

Tax the rich won't work and they know it.

They need to tax everyone. I hope this comes up during the debates.


yep I agree.

It looks like they are starting the "set up" already.




posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Their strategy is to bring over the coveted Value Added Tax from Europe.

Tax the rich won't work and they know it.

They need to tax everyone. I hope this comes up during the debates.


OF COURSE they need to raise taxes overall


Just looking at the deficit even a moron can see that just by cutting spending you can't fix this deficit. There's only 2 ways you can fix it:

a) Cut spending and have economic growth like we had during Clinton:

That's simply not going to happen, the and the issue here isn't that companies are paying too many taxes. They are now paying LESS than during Clinton, so clearly that's not the driver of economic growth.

We are in an economic crisis because reckless deregulation allowed the banks to screw us all over. They then got the government to allow them to privatise all gains while putting all losses on the backs of the public. And when I say the "government", I really mean "the banks". Because if you actually bother looking up the CVs of the people who allowed for all this to happen, you realise that they are essentially banker sock puppets. This article explains it really well.

Anyway, with even China's growth slowing down, it's pretty clear that the whole "economic growth" thing won't fix the deficit.

b) Cut spending and raise taxes:

Realistically, this is the only way. Yes it sucks, yes I wish there was another option, but sadly this is the only way. Now you can raise taxes in several ways. The goal should be to raise taxes that don't harm economic growth, and to ensure the population as a whole doesn't starve or die off.

So one thing they could do is to raise taxes for companies and bring them back to Clinton area levels. We're not talking about them paying 10% more here, just a few %. That would bring in A TON of money without harming economic growth...because as I said, we had massive growth during Clinton's "higher taxes" years.

They could also raise taxes for people that wouldn't really "feel the sting". People who don't have to worry about not being able to properly feed their kids if they had to pay 2% higher taxes...or even 5% higher taxes. And no, paying 5% higher taxes wouldn't deter those people form starting new companies or otherwise creating jobs. If you have a business idea and the business plan shows you will make healthy profits, a tax that's 5% higher won't deter you. If your margin of profit is so low that 5% bothers you, then your idea is RUBBISH in the first place.

They shouldn't raise taxes for those people who would otherwise SPEND their money. A poor person will spend 100% of his income shopping or otherwise stimulating the economy, no matter his taxes. A middle class person will spend most of it, and will save just a bit. Again, most of it goes directly into the economy. If you're rich, you mostly spend a fraction of your income...most of it is invested, because that's what ends up making the real $$$. So you end up investing in something that makes you a good return...like I did when I invested in gold at the start of the crisis. Guess how many jobs that created


So economically, raising taxes of the richer people makes a lot more sense. Ethically it's of course a no brainer.

So yeah...you can't just look at stuff as black or white, you have to consider the big picture.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Their strategy is to bring over the coveted Value Added Tax from Europe.

Tax the rich won't work and they know it.

They need to tax everyone. I hope this comes up during the debates.


yep I agree.

It looks like they are starting the "set up" already.



Fiscal cliff has a solution. Paul Krugman discussed it here.

- Paul Krugman Going Rogue 2010 -



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Oh yes. That's their favorite word -- crisis --.


The only crisis we have is a desperate socialist is living in the White House.

Small businesses will give us our 400,000 jobs every month and 5% GDP growth.

----------
Truth be told: Obama - hates - the private sector.


The Obama Value Added Tax is just another part of his sick transformation of

America and you know it.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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why is suspending the TEMPORARY tax breaks put in by the republicans, and going back to the same tax rates as all of us had under bill clinton, "going over a fiscal cliff"......this is such a false arguement it defies logic...and people wonder why others are saying the republicans have gone nuts.....logic, reason, and truth, have left the republican congress.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Don't you think much of the wild binge spending is the real problem ?

The vast majority of Americans got nothing of any real value from the wild spending.

The "answer" is a result of the initial set up by the leftists.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
why is suspending the TEMPORARY tax breaks put in by the republicans, and going back to the same tax rates as all of us had under bill clinton, "going over a fiscal cliff"......this is such a false arguement it defies logic...and people wonder why others are saying the republicans have gone nuts.....logic, reason, and truth, have left the republican congress.


Haven't you been watching the Sunday TV Shows?

Fox News , Meet the Press etc. - everyone - agrees that raising taxes right now will

throw the USA back into a recession.

Open your eyes.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Cut Spending and you will get into trouble faster than a mouse running away from a chasing cat.

Cut Wastage, not Cut Spending, should be the mantra. Bailing out banks is a no-no. Dumping govt funds into unprotected industries that competes with other cheap labour slave nations is another no-no. Helping companies relocate to those countries are even worse things a govt can do.

Trim the budget, but NOT destroy it. Make sure every dollar is accounted for and is put to good use for social spending in infrastructure, education, heath, security, etc. As for investments, ensure every single cent spent can return back at least 3 fold. For example, invest in technical trainning for older workers to upgrade their skills to be employable, hold seminars to upgrade white collar workers facing layoffs to take on other jobs, etc, etc.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx
why is suspending the TEMPORARY tax breaks put in by the republicans, and going back to the same tax rates as all of us had under bill clinton, "going over a fiscal cliff"......this is such a false arguement it defies logic...and people wonder why others are saying the republicans have gone nuts.....logic, reason, and truth, have left the republican congress.


Well,

How exactly will lower paychecks help the economy ?

The poor and middle class will pay this price if tax increases happen.

Add that to any ObamaCare problems and Wowie

Any, and I mean Any and ALL tax revenues will be spent away from the average citizen.

These nuts could easily get the debt up to $25 trillion by an Obama "7th" year.

The Democrats seem to love that Double-Down idea



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen[/i
When Obama took office in January 2009, he had with him majorities in the Senate and House that lasted for two years.

We all have seen the results of that.....

Ya, we have

Cons decided to sabotage the entire process, making sure the government broke by abusing their power.

Right wing are obstructionist anti-americans. Consider what was said and done..to hell with the economy, the people, they decided to toss the economy and the nation in the sewer in order to make Obama a 1 term president..

and btw, they will fail..because the internet was invented, and people have access to actual information (outside of your grandfathers chain emails about how obama is a radical nazi kenyan).

So..
The dems are now saying they will play hardball on this issue where they stop the GWB -stimulus- on the money hoarders...and in turn, the repubs are saying if they stop giving gifts to the top 1% of tax dodgers, they will hammer everyone...

Ya...spin it...numbers and facts however paint a very different picture than what your selling...the fiscal cliff was set in the navigator in 2008 when the repubs decided they didn't work for the american people, but instead for a party ideology of elite corporate interests exclusively.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


Didn't the same people say giving tax breaks would lead to more jobs? They lied then like they are lying now.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What?

Can you show us some exact examples of what if anything would have been positive for the majority of citizens ?

Maybe they actually prevented some worse disasters ?

We need the real facts and figures to compare.

Yikes !!


edit on Jul-16-2012 by xuenchen because:




posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes

Do they think people have no been paying attention?

National debt when Obama and the left took over 10 trillion current national deficit 15+ trillion within the next 4 years no matter who is potus cbo projections put the national debt at over 21 trillion.

Then we can talk about the 20+ new taxes on the middle class from the Care Act.

Then we can talk about how I had more money in my wallet under Bush than Obama.

Seems to me The democrats have long driven this country over the cliff.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


Didn't the same people say giving tax breaks would lead to more jobs? They lied then like they are lying now.


Due to the lower rates the economy is limping along.

If you throw a huge Value Added Tax at the American people, that 80,000 number

will fall to - zero -.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What?

Can you show us some exact examples of what if anything would have been positive for the majority of citizens ?

Maybe they actually prevented some worse disasters ?

We need the real facts and figures to compare.

Yikes !!


edit on Jul-16-2012 by xuenchen because:


I see.
So what your graph shows is..we need to increase revenue.

Commonsense reform is required.
America is edging close to being considered a 3rd world nation should we not upgrade the citizens standing. Take models that work..look to northern europe. What place on earth follows the american conservative ideology? Seriously...everything has been tried on microscales...find places of conservatopia...now put that against areas like denmark, sweden, etc (liberal utopia)...what do you got? Ireland? Somolia? Ireland is a perfect example...very ultra conservative ideals and disastrous results from it.

I don't like that vision..I like having things like..jobs...stuff...a breathable atmosphere and clean lakes, etc.

the graph shows the obstruction of progress, your graph is showing the need for progress and logic. Funny how two people can look at a fire and see different things...I am saying we need water to put it out, your saying we need to rip down the things on fire so the fire doesn't burn it down...



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Common sense is that we need to reduce the size of the US government.

Stop spending tax dollars like drunken sailors!

Try to reform Social Security. Raise the retirement age to 67 just like Canada.

Lay off 1/2 the people at the EPA !



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Our nation has already fallen over the "fiscal Cliff" and this threat is pure nonsense. Now is not the time to be jacking taxes to pay for the liberal spending agenda. Jacking taxes would set the nation at the bottom of the cliff ablaze. Right now it's still in one piece. But for how long....???
edit on 16-7-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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From the OP's source

Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.


If this isn't class warfare, then I don't know what is.

This is a last ditch effort for dems to raise taxes.

They know they are screwed. The next election cycle will see them lose the senate along with the White House.

They are panicking. They are desparate, and they are willing to take the whole country down with them.

You DON'T raise taxes during a recession.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Common sense is that we need to reduce the size of the US government.

Stop spending tax dollars like drunken sailors!

Try to reform Social Security. Raise the retirement age to 67 just like Canada.

Lay off 1/2 the people at the EPA !



Ya, hows that been working out then? Pub sector hasn't been more abandoned in like...ages.
Why? well, because of obstruction on the fed level, and neocon sweeping movements in the states that have been fire happy.
And yep..the unemployment is still high..economics point directly at the very low goverment hiring as a major contributor.

I do agree about the retirement age though..but the rest is absolute nonsense
and the only ones wanting the EPA decimiated is large corporations that want to destroy the ecology of areas for profit..not that it would create a single job..it is simply maximizing profits and thats it.

Common sense has numbers and statistics backing it up. Your not suggesting common sense..your suggesting right wing party line talking points based in absolutely nothing.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
You DON'T raise taxes during a recession.


1) the recession is technically over, but we are still in a disaster
2) polling shows the opposite to your suggestion for who will inherit the power
3) if your concerned about a recession, you don't demand a hobble to public employment..which has been the motto of the right wing since O took office.





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