common sense: how to beat the tea party in a battle of wits

Originally posted by XPLodER

im into free market capitalism baby,

If you are agaisnt the tea party, and in favor of the occupy movement I doubt you are a "free market capitalist"...

Originally posted by XPLodER
is the bank bail outs socialism?
is the to big to fail capitalism?

are you living in a dream world?

More or your so called "pro common sense"?... Really?...

Originally posted by XPLodER
this ^^^^^ is not capitalism or free markets,
its socialism for the rich

so you must support the bankers huh?

xploder

The tea party support the bankers?... Really?...

First of all it was people like the Occupy movement that made possible for the banker elites to take control of the United States and it's economy...

It was "PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS/SOCIALISTS" under a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT President, Woodrow Wilson, who with a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Congress implemented the Federal Reserve Act/ AKA the Feds, and gave all power over the economy of the United States to the rich banker elites... These same PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS funded the IRS as it exists now with all its PROGRESSIVE TAXES...

If you are in favor of all these PROGRESSIVE TAXES you are siding with the banker elites you claim to be against...

The fact that the Occupy movement has the backing of the Obama administration, a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT/SOCIALIST administration, then the Occupy movement must be doing what the Feds want... In case you didn't know the Feds own the government of these United States...

Originally posted by XPLodER

nice rant

The rant is what you wrote. NOTHING that you wrote is based on any EVIDENCE/FACTS, but just YOUR opinion and that of the Occupy movement...

I gave you SEVERAL FACTS, yet you are ignoring them...

Originally posted by XPLodER
you do realise that the amount of money given to the banks was 17 trillion dollars
i dont here you claim that is socialism

tea party started because of bank bailouts,
WHY IS THE TEA PARTY SILENT ON THIS ISSUE?

First of all, the tea party has been rallying against the GOVERNMENT, and the FEDS, which in case you didn't know is the CENTRAL BANK that controls the economy of this nation is PART OF THE GOVERNMENT... The fact that you claim the tea party has been silent about the banks shows how little you know on this topic...

What the tea party is not doing is DEMANDING to get their own bail outs like the Occupy cry babies have been demanding...

If you know that bailouts are bad you don't ask for more bailouts... But since the Occupy movement is a bunch of cry babies who want everything free they are using the bank bailouts as an excuse to DEMAND for their own bailouts which would further damage this country...

Originally posted by XPLodER
OH its inconvenient to mention that to big to fail means monopoly

you tell me i know nothing lets debate.

xploder

You don't even know how to debate... i gave you facts and you ignore them completely...

You claim all taxes are needed and I showed you how UnConstitutional it is to have taxes on property and you just keep ignoring FACTS...

It is obvious that you don't know how to debate. You are just ranting about a topic you know nothing about.

If you are agaisnt the tea party, and in favor of the occupy movement I doubt you are a "free market capitalist"...

your doubt on the matter does not change the fact that i am well versed in free market capitalism.
test me, go on ill relieve your doubt for you.

More or your so called "pro common sense"?... Really?...

how have you categorised,
bailing out banks with tax payer money?
having institutions so big their failure is systemic, and not conceder them a monopoly?

The tea party support the bankers?... Really?...

im wondering why they are not protesting banks like OWS
does silence on the subject suggest anything else?

First of all it was people like the Occupy movement that made possible for the banker elites to take control of the United States and it's economy...

this makes no logical sense to me could you please rephrase that statement so i can respond

It was "PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS/SOCIALISTS" under a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT President, Woodrow Wilson, who with a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Congress implemented the Federal Reserve Act/ AKA the Feds, and gave all power over the economy of the United States to the rich banker elites... These same PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS funded the IRS as it exists now with all its PROGRESSIVE TAXES...

logically OWS was not around when any of that happened,
so how now?

If you are in favor of all these PROGRESSIVE TAXES you are siding with the banker elites you claim to be against...

have you read my debate with beezer?
i suggest you do

The fact that the Occupy movement has the backing of the Obama administration, a PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT/SOCIALIST administration, then the Occupy movement must be doing what the Feds want... In case you didn't know the Feds own the government of these United States...

now i know you cant back that claim up with facts,
SO I DIRECTLY CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW PROOF.

OWS does not support either political party or any politican.
BY DESIGN

xploder

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


right you pressed my buttons,

It is obvious that you don't know how to debate. You are just ranting about a topic you know nothing about.

are you being rude on puropse?

i clearly am debating you right now

xploder

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


quick question,
are you suggesting a joint protest of OWS and TP at the fed?
xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER

your doubt on the matter does not change the fact that i am well versed in free market capitalism.
test me, go on ill relieve your doubt for you.

Are you obtuse or do you become blind when an argument is presented to you... Tell me how are property taxes part of a "free market/capitalism"?... Under capitalism people have the right to won property, but when you have yearly taxes on a property, you are only leasing that property, it isn't yours...

I have shown you this argument TWICE now and you keep ignoring it...

Originally posted by XPLodER
how have you categorised,
bailing out banks with tax payer money?
having institutions so big their failure is systemic, and not conceder them a monopoly?

Wow... AGAIN The FEDS is a CENTRAL BANK... Do you understand the concept of a CENTRAL BANK?... And your tax payer money goes to the Feds through the IRS...

You even said it yourself... The Feds took TRILLIONS of dollars, yet you have no idea that this has anything to do with "banks" when the Feds is the BIGGEST BANK in the U.S.?...

Originally posted by XPLodER
im wondering why they are not protesting banks like OWS
does silence on the subject suggest anything else?

Wow... Can you tell us WHO gave the bailout to the banks?... Can you tell us WHAT CENTRAL BANK IS PART OF THE GOVERNMENT?...

Originally posted by XPLodER
this makes no logical sense to me could you please rephrase that statement so i can respond

The Occupy movement is a LEFTWING movement... Some other members and I have shown how The Obama administration WHO GAVE THE BAILOUTS TO THE BANKS, have sided with Occupy movement because they all want the same thing...

The people who implemented the Feds, giving the power of the United States economy to the rich banker elietes were also LEFTWING... In fact they were PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, just like the Obama administration is PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT...

Originally posted by XPLodER
logically OWS was not around when any of that happened,
so how now?

Wow... the OWS want to give MORE power to the government to "regulate" everything... And the fact is that we are in this crisis we are in now because MORE POWER was given to the government and to the world elites by the SAME leftwinger ideals...

Can you add up facts, or is your mind that closed that you can't compute facts?...

Originally posted by XPLodER
now i know you cant back that claim up with facts,
SO I DIRECTLY CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW PROOF.

OWS does not support either political party or any politican.
BY DESIGN

xploder

That's what they CLAIM, but the facts is the OPPOSITE to what you claim...

Several of us have proved this many times...

For example...

Here is another interesting video which shows that even the Working Families Party, a left-progressive party, is one of the organizers of the OWS movement. BTW, the WFP was in fact organized by a coalition of unions, and ACORN, alongside other community organizations.



I wonder who would a left-progressive party endorse as President?...

One fact is that one of the organizers for these events, for example in Boston, is none other than ACORN, but under their new name New England United 4 Justice

If you look at the bottom of the following advertisement you will find one of the partners for the Occupy Wall Street movements is New England United 4 Justice, alongside several other leftwing groups, which has the same director and the same people working for the organization as when it was called ACORN.

massuniting.org...

The OWS movement began with the help of organizers/organizations which have a different idea of what sort of "change" and what type of "revolution" should occur.

When you hear the words "revolution" and or "change" you should be asking what sort of change, and what sort of revolution are you talking about?

Let's see what at least some of the main organizers of these events have to say about what sort of change and what type of revolution they want to see.

If you don't think the whole OWS is about socialism/communism, you need to watch these videos. And btw, i don't work for any news media, I am not rich. I am just one of those people who actually lived and experienced socialism/communism in it's true nature and I know the truth that these people are either ignorant about, or just want to ignore.

I am not saying everyone in the OWS is a socialist/communist, but you need to watch what sort of movement, and group you back, because they don't necessarily want the same things you do.










BTW, as I have said countless of times, and as I have demonstrated countless of times. Those in power set up the system as it is through these same "changes" that brought us the problems we have been experiencing for at least almost 100 years.

Obama and his administration have even implemented laws giving power to "a large corporation".

If you don't think that those in power are the ones behind these movements, why is it that socialist policies have been made into law in countries like the United States? Such as H.R. 1388?

H.R. 1388 To Reauthorize and Reform the National Service Laws.

thomas.loc.gov

Directs the Corporation to plan pilot programs to: (1) better target and serve displaced workers; and (2) establish a centralized electronic citizenship verification system which would allow the Corporation to share employment eligibility information with the Department of Education.

Authorizes the Corporation to treat September 11th annually as a National Day of Service and Remembrance.

Establishes within the Investment for Quality and Innovation program: (1) a ServeAmerica Fellowships program providing fellowships to individuals chosen by states to participate in service projects addressing certain areas of national need; (2) a Silver Scholarship Grant Program providing scholarships to individuals age 55 or older who complete at least 500 hours of service in a year in an area of national need; and (3) an Encore Fellowships program providing one-year fellowships to individuals age 55 or older who serve in areas of national need and receive training to transition to public service employment. Makes ServeAmerica fellows eligible for national service educational awards.

Authorizes the Corporation to provide grants to innovative and model service programs, including those for disadvantaged youth, youth under age 17, and potential recidivists.

Eliminates federal funding for the Points of Light Foundation.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Working Link

Next, I will show you the fact that the Obama administration is backing the OWS movement...

Originally posted by XPLodER

quick question,
are you suggesting a joint protest of OWS and TP at the fed?
xploder

Are you kidding?... The OWS is a LEFTWING movement who in general want to implement SOCIALISM in the U.S... The OWS IN GENERAL want to get EVERYTHING for free and are using the bailouts as an excuse to DEMAND their own bailouts... They want MORE government with the government "regulating" everything for them...

The Tea Party movement in general want to get rid of the Feds, which is the BIGGEST bank, and which is the bank that gets your money through taxes. The Tea Party IN GENERAL want less government, less taxes, more individual freedoms, and individual responsibility...

The two movements are on oposite sides... The fact that you don't know this shows your little knowledge on the topic.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Wow you brought everything but the kitchen sink, or birth certificate lol

Perhaps you would comment on this:

Originally posted by XPLodER
lol how to beat the tea party in a fight of wits

no tax rises are the catch phrase of the tea party,
well common sense trumps teaparty propaganda everytime

xploder

You know the topic of the thread???

Are you obtuse or do you become blind when an argument is presented to you... Tell me how are property taxes part of a "free market/capitalism"?... Under capitalism people have the right to won property, but when you have yearly taxes on a property, you are only leasing that property, it isn't yours...

I have shown you this argument TWICE now and you keep ignoring it...

property taxes should not be part of a free market they currently are tho......

i see your problem and up you another,

There CANNOT be any foreclosures because there never was any REAL money lent to the borrower!

There was no legal initial mortgage contract to begin with as there was:

No Consideration...i.e. no money....no loan: "..can only be considered a purported loan/ Has Fictitious or Illusionary Consideration; (see Montgomery vs. Daly)
An interest bearing Mortgage Contact can not possible be fulfilled by everyone because of usury ( Where does the interest come from if there was only one mortgage contract in the world.) therefore it is Civilly Void and Unenforceable;
False statements are signed by the borrower. i.e A False Document
Part of a Bait and Switch; The bankers and lawyers string you along into signing these false documents thinking you have a loan and are the borrower when in fact you are the creditor and have GIVEN them or they HAVE STOLEN your credit.
The contract is a wagering Provision; Both the borrower and the banker have come together with nothing ( the bankers have no money and the borrower has no home) and leave with something: . "Purported borrower" "AGREEs" to make payments"..Bank agrees to accept them. "truly gambling"but the homeowner is not aware of this "crime" and would never sign if told.

source

Wow... AGAIN The FEDS is a CENTRAL BANK... Do you understand the concept of a CENTRAL BANK?... And your tax payer money goes to the Feds through the IRS...

You even said it yourself... The Feds took TRILLIONS of dollars, yet you have no idea that this has anything to do with "banks" when the Feds is the BIGGEST BANK in the U.S.?...

i do understand the fraction reserve system and the idea and implementation of central banking,
and that the federal reserve is privately owned.

Wow... Can you tell us WHO gave the bailout to the banks?... Can you tell us WHAT CENTRAL BANK IS PART OF THE GOVERNMENT?...

i believe it was voted on under urgency without reading the bill, (feel free to correct me) so i blame the banks for imploding the financial sector, and the politicians for not reading the bill.

The Occupy movement is a LEFTWING movement... Some other members and I have shown how The Obama administration WHO GAVE THE BAILOUTS TO THE BANKS, have sided with Occupy movement because they all want the same thing...

you do realise it was voted on in in the house and senate? to blame any individual is plainly wrong.

The people who implemented the Feds, giving the power of the United States economy to the rich banker elietes were also LEFTWING... In fact they were PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, just like the Obama administration is PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT...

the people who started ww2 were the germans.........
the crimes of past generations...............
OWS is a coalition of ALL types of people with ALL types of ideas,
even tea partyers are welcome, wana join OWS?

Wow... the OWS want to give MORE power to the government to "regulate" everything... And the fact is that we are in this crisis we are in now because MORE POWER was given to the government and to the world elites by the SAME leftwinger ideals...

no it was because the regulators did nothing to regulate the markets,
and the affordable housing act,
repeal of glass stegal
i could go on all day

run out of room to reply....
continued..

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by XPLodER

quick question,
are you suggesting a joint protest of OWS and TP at the fed?
xploder

Are you kidding?... The OWS is a LEFTWING movement who in general want to implement SOCIALISM in the U.S... The OWS IN GENERAL want to get EVERYTHING for free and are using the bailouts as an excuse to DEMAND their own bailouts... They want MORE government with the government "regulating" everything for them...

The Tea Party movement in general want to get rid of the Feds, which is the BIGGEST bank, and which is the bank that gets your money through taxes. The Tea Party IN GENERAL want less government, less taxes, more individual freedoms, and individual responsibility...

The two movements are on oposite sides... The fact that you don't know this shows your little knowledge on the topic.

edit on 11-7-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

aside we would like to protest the fed to
are you suggesting we join together to protest the fed?

serious question,
ps the right wingers in OWS have asked me to point out they are not LEFTIES

xploder

Why in the world would you people want to feed the government greed?

The government provides things for our quality of life that we can't, and the private sector won't.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


And to add the "Occupy" movement started out as the "days of rage" which conveniently coincided with the many other days of rage around the world.

Days Of Rage is an old 60's term for their attempted revolution. I'm sure that roughly the same people are behind it all now as was 40 years ago.

While I'm sure that the occupy movement has some intelligent people (albeit wrongly educated) but for the most part are textbook bolshevist useful idiots.

Let's see once again the partners of the OWS movement in Boston as an example...

Right to the City coalition partners in the Boston area include Alternatives for Community & Environment, Asian American Resource Workshop, Boston Workers Alliance, Boston Climate Action Network, Chelsea Collaborative, Chinese Progressive Association, City Life/Vida Urbana, Community Change, Inc., Community Labor United, CWA Local 1400, Direct Action for Rights & Equality, Dorchester People for Peace, Green Justice Coalition, IBEW T-­‐6 Council, Lynn United for Change, Mass Alliance Against Predatory Lending, Massachusetts Global Action, Massachusetts Jobs with Justice, MASSUNITING, Merrimack Valley Project, Network for Immigrants and African Americans in Solidarity, Neighbors United for a Better East Boston, New England United for Justice, Press Pass TV, Service Employees International Union, Springfield No One Leaves, smartMeme, Survivors Inc., UE Northeast Region, UFCW Local 1445, Union of Minority Neighborhoods, UNITE HERE Local 26, Women's Fightback Network, Worcester Anti-­‐Foreclosure Team, and the Youth Jobs Coalition

massuniting.org...

...
Front groups of the community organization ACORN played a major role in organizing the OWS protests nationwide. For instance, the Working Families Party (WFP), a longtime ACORN front, helped mobilize the demonstrations in New York City. "[We are] actually trying to change the capitalist system we have today because it’s not working for any of us," WFP organizer Nelini Stamp told Laura Flanders of Free Speech TV in an interview.

Meanwhile, ACORN’s newer front groups were likewise deeply involved in launching and expanding the OWS movement throughout the fall of 2011. For instance, New York Communities for Change -- led by longtime ACORN lobbyist Jon Kest -- helped WFP organize the demonstrations in lower Manhattan. In Pennsylvania, Action United participated in the "Occupy Pittsburgh" rallies. In Florida, Organize Now took part in "Occupy Orlando." The Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment led the "Occupy L.A." protests. And New England United for Justice, headed by former ACORN national president Maude Hurd, participated in the related “Take Back Boston” rallies in Massachusetts.

The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) was also heavily involved in OWS's formation and early growth. At the heart of "Occupy Los Angeles," for instance, were two Southern California communists -- veteran Party leader Arturo Cambron and his comrade Mario Brito. In early October 2011, Brito declared that OWS's chief objective was to achieve “economic justice,” and added: “This is an international movement ... The vast majority of Americans actually believe income inequality is a major problem. The only reason they haven’t acted upon it is because there hasn’t been a mass movement.” In an October 15, 2011 address to the nearly 3,000 attendees at an "Occupy Chicago" rally, John Bachtell, a spokesman from the CPUSA's national board, claimed to “bring greetings and solidarity from the Communist Party”; he received a number of loud ovations from the crowd.
...

www.discoverthenetworks.org...

...Leave it to Pelosi to “God bless” a group of godless leftists.


(Politico) — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday praised the thousands of “Occupy Wall Street” protesters crowding New York City and other cities across the nation.

“God bless them for their spontaneity,” Pelosi told reporters. “It’s young, it’s spontaneous, it’s focused and it’s going to be effective.”

The comments from Pelosi, the top Democrat in the House, came after President Barack Obama embraced the protesters in a nationally televised news conference, saying their furor would “express itself politically in 2012 and beyond.”

The rallies — aimed mostly at the financial industry — are now in their third week. Wednesday’s protest in Manhattan marked the largest demonstration thus far, drawing a crowd of thousands and the support of major union organizations.

Pelosi on Thursday said the protests could bring more visibility to Democrats’ efforts to counter Republican attempts to weaken the Dodd-Frank financial oversight bill and block a permanent director to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
...

weaselzippers.us...

Groups that support the Occupiers:
Barack Obama, President of the USA
Joe Biden, Vice President of the USA
Communist Party USA
American Nazi Party
Ayatollah Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran
The government of North Korea
Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam
Revolutionary Communist Party
David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the KKK
Hugo Chavez, Communist Dictator of Venezuela
Revolutionary Guards of Iran
Black Panthers (original)
Socialist Party USA
US Border Guard (White Pride Group)
Industrial Workers of the World
CAIR
Nancy Pelosi
Communist Party of China
Hezbollah
9/11Truth.org
International Bolshevik Tendency
Anonymous (Hacker, Anarchist)
White Revolution (White Pride Group)
International Socialist Organization
PressTV (Iranian government outlet)
Marxist Student Union
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
ANSWER
Party for Socialism and Liberation
OTPOR, Serbian revolutionaries for hire, funded by George Soros

Unions that support the occupiers:
S.E.I.U. Service Employees International Union
National Transit Union
United Steelworkers of America
Amalgamated Transit Union
United Federation of Teachers
National Nurses United
Communication Workers of America
Operational Weather Squadron
New York Transit Union
United Pilots Union
Teamsters Union
Local 802 American Federation of Musicians NYC
AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka

L.A. County AFL-CIO

rebuildingfreedom.org...

Yet you know so little about this topic that you want to claim the group has nothing to do with leftwing organizations, or with the Obama administration?...

Originally posted by CB328

Why in the world would you people want to feed the government greed?

The government provides things for our quality of life that we can't, and the private sector won't.

So I guess its about what your country can do for you and not what you can do for your country?

Originally posted by 11235813213455

And to add the "Occupy" movement started out as the "days of rage" which conveniently coincided with the many other days of rage around the world.

Days Of Rage is an old 60's term for their attempted revolution. I'm sure that roughly the same people are behind it all now as was 40 years ago.

While I'm sure that the occupy movement has some intelligent people (albeit wrongly educated) but for the most part are textbook bolshevist useful idiots.

I agree 100% with you. There are many people, like the OP, who BLINDLY follow the OWS movement knowing NOTHING about it and who the organizers of these groups really are, and people like the OP THINK that this was the "idea of just people with no political affiliation" when the fact is that the OWS movement is a leftwing movement trying to implement socialism in the U.S.

Wow... the OWS want to give MORE power to the government to "regulate" everything... And the fact is that we are in this crisis we are in now because MORE POWER was given to the government and to the world elites by the SAME leftwinger ideals...

the idea that the removal of regulation will magically make things better is a joke,
lack of financial regulation has allowed over the counter derivatives to inflate to over 1.4 quadrillion
do you recognise regulation can be necessarie?

Can you add up facts, or is your mind that closed that you can't compute facts?...

or you asking about my maths skills or my ability to think critically?

Here is another interesting video which shows that even the Working Families Party, a left-progressive party, is one of the organizers of the OWS movement. BTW, the WFP was in fact organized by a coalition of unions, and ACORN, alongside other community organizations.

i can tell you that your boogie man acorn was not involved with the start of OWS,
as they have they same right to protest as everyone else we accept them on that bases.

i have had to turn of my messenger as my friends want me to point stuff out to you, more than half of them are center/right leaning, they ask i remind you,
WE ARE NOT ALL LEFTIES
i know for a fact you are incorrectly applying that term to me in particular.

One fact is that one of the organizers for these events, for example in Boston, is none other than ACORN, but under their new name New England United 4 Justice

If you look at the bottom of the following advertisement you will find one of the partners for the Occupy Wall Street movements is New England United 4 Justice, alongside several other leftwing groups, which has the same director and the same people working for the organization as when it was called ACORN.

massuniting.org...

OWS is partners with over a thousand groups world wide,
with a hundred individual "Occupies" scattered around the world.

we exclude only violent or non peaceful people. all groups have the right to protest.
i dont agree with acorn but i respect their right to protest.

xploder

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



WAIT WHAT?

Yet you know so little about this topic that you want to claim the group has nothing to do with leftwing organizations, or with the Obama administration?...

when you have that many people and groups and countries supporting you,
there will be lefties righties hippies communists anarchists atheists Christians ect,ect,ect

acually a health cross section of the entire world,
so yea youll find some lefties
but youll find some righties

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Ever heard of the term "Organize the organized"?

OWS Is nothing more than that. This whole thing is just a fake movement organized by international unions like SEIU.