common sense: how to beat the tea party in a battle of wits

I would like to reach back into the dustbin of history and take a polshing cloth to a well known ( and very applicable to present day) early 20th century word.

Bolshevism....

Word History: The word Bolshevik, an emotionally charged term in English, is derived from an ordinary word in Russian, bol'she, "bigger, more," the comparative form of bol'sho, "big." The plural form Bol'sheviki was the name given to the majority faction at the Second Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Workers' Party in 1903 (the term is first recorded in English in 1907). The smaller faction was known as Men'sheviki, from men'she, "less, smaller," the comparative of maly, "little, few." The Bol'sheviki, who sided with Lenin in the split that followed the Congress, subsequently became the Russian Communist Party. In 1952 the word Bol'shevik was dropped as an official term in the Soviet Union, but it had long since passed into other languages, including English.

And we all know know what that led to.

I submit that the OWS movement is nothing more than a modern day Bolshevist movement/attempt with very much the same goal as the original.

reply to post by XPLodER


Just as in ancient Rome, once the people learn they can vote themselves the money the nation is over. It is the current failure of our own republic. It just took a little longer to get there. We have learned that our representatives can get more money but palandering with the voting masses. And get support from those corporate goons. We really aren't too far off from the same picture here. We want the same results but have different ways of seeing it. Our nation is doomed. i believe we should learn to be more self sufficient and educated before we go into battle. You think that the people should be supported no matter what. It comes down to the fact that we as a nation are doomed to become a third world country by our own fault. There is no stopping this roller coaster that we are on. Once the people become aware then progress can be made. Right now the people are greedy and lazy and will sell their soul for a big screen. Our nation will be vastly different in twenty years, for better or worse.

reluctantpawn

The sad part is that I think you actually believe your tax money goes someplace useful. (roads, military funding

Ok first I want to put a couple of definitions. These are all on wikipedia, so please go read stuff on your own.

A Socialism is an economic system characterized by social ownership and/or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy, and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

B Communism is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with market economies).

C Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit. Competitive markets, wage labor, capital accumulation, voluntary exchange, and personal finance are also considered capitalistic. There are multiple variants of capitalism, including laissez-faire, mixed economies, and state capitalism. Capitalism is considered to have applied in a variety of historical cases, varying in time, geography, politics, and culture. There is general agreement that capitalism became dominant in the Western world following the demise of feudalism.

D Democracy is a political system based upon the concept of "rule by the people", as referring to people categorized as citizens of a society, who have been designated the right to hold some form of political power (though not necessarily sovereignty), generally through the form of a majoritarian vote. Two major types of democracy are direct democracy and representative democracy.

E Government consists of the legislators, administrators, and arbitrators in the administrative bureaucracy who control a state at a given time, and the system by which they are organized. Government is the means by which state policy is enforced, as well as the mechanism for determining the policy of the state. A form of government, or form of state governance, refers to the set of political institutions by which a government of a state is organized. Synonyms include "regime type" and "system of government".

F Economy consists of the economic systems of a country or other area; the labor, capital and land resources; and the manufacturing, production, trade, distribution, and consumption of goods and services of that area.

Everyone educated? Good now a quick quiz.

1) Where in capitalism does the words social or government get mentioned?

2) Which from the list above are forms of government?

3) Which from the list above are economic systems?

4) How are socialism and communism related?

5) How are democracy and capitalism related?

6) What countries of the Earth use communism as a form of government?

7) What countries of the Earth use democracy as a form of government?

Bonus questions:

8) What is the declaration of independence? Why was it made?

9) What is the constitution of the United States of America? The bill of rights?

Final super duper bonus question:

10) What form of government does the United States of America use? What economic model?

Scores will be tallied and the winner will receive +1 internets.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by Thunderheart

 

technically your 401k and Health insurance are not taxes...

edit on 11-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

True, however it's important to remember that the money in your 401k will be taxed the day you take it out, and at the current tax rate when it's withdrawn. Now what is important is that many baby boomers are in the midst of retiring, and cashing in their 401k plans. Retiring at 65 with 500k in your 401k is not really all that much. Before taxes it's 25,000 a year if you are to live to 85. Now, increasing the taxes on the highest earners, or the 1%, will indeed affect those people retiring even though they may have never made any more than 50k a year because the year they cash in their 401ks they will be taxed in the highest bracket. The highest federal income tax percentage is 35%, which means those retiring on a $500,000 401k are actually retiring on $325,000, or $16,250 per year if they live to 85.

This obviously is not including local or state income taxes, which also taxes against a 401k plan withdrawal. This is why many people facing retirement move to Florida before they withdrawal their 401k, as Florida has no state income tax.

This is important to remember when you argue for taxing the top 1%, you are also taking from the people who have watched their 401k retirement plan plummet the last 10 years and are now facing retirement, now they are also facing the fact that the federal government may now be taking more from them if certain portions of the Bush tax cuts expire. Fact is, as long as we are fiddling with tax rates, it is impossible to accurately forecast business decisions of all kinds.

The entire sum then becomes taxable within the current year, and that is likely to put you in a very high tax bracket. Read more: How Is a 401K Taxed? | eHow.com www.ehow.com...

This thread really jumped the shark. The Troy library people were clever, however, I wonder why they didn't just state "Small tax increase for library funding". I think people might have been more receptive to begin with if it was clearly stated what the tax increase was for to begin with.

you lefties have no common sense.
thats why you need a "how to" video.

News Flash : The Tea Party isn't the real Tea Party anymore.

Anything that has the potential to make a difference and unite people for real change, you will quickly see establishment whores like Sarah Palin jump on board just for the sake of putting a "turd in the punch bowl".

Here's an idea; How about we only pay taxes toward what we want to pay taxes for? Roads, healthcare, education, instead of our money going toward $10 million dollar bombs that are being dropped everyday by the dozen on some middle eastern backwater, or $2 billion dollar experimental aircraft that will be test flown one single time then scrapped?

Seems like nobody has clear enough vision to fix the real problems, instead they just get suckered into the political football game that is Left/Right/TeaParty/Whatever.

Snap out of it people.

Originally posted by Thunderheart
reply to post by XPLodER

 

ok, you tell me when I am taxed enough, right now 48% of my check goes to taxes, federal and state, 13% goes to 401k and health insurance. That leaves 39% of my check for living expenses.
How much more do you think I should pay so that others can have free stuff?

edit on 11-7-2012 by Thunderheart because: (no reason given)

You should get a better tax attorney. The one you have now is not worth #.

Many that are supposed to pay 39% actually pay 10% to 15% of their actual income, because of various loopholes in the law. Start various offshore shell companies and then launder the money back and forth.

Ask your brothers in the lodge. They know money laundering techniques quite well fool!

reply to post by reluctantpawn

Just as in ancient Rome, once the people learn they can vote themselves the money the nation is over

and the founders of the united states of america warned that when banks have this power the exact same out come is true.

centeral banks are just as dangerous as standing armies.

the problem is banks can create money out of thin air,
who is worse?

we can vote out politicians, we can vote out bankers

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Not exactly true. When most money is concentrated into few hands that corrupts the entire process of politics and severly skews the results to the right. How can one vote out bankers and rich people? These people will always influence the outcome regardless of what elected officials want, except for a hardline socialist or communist democracy.

But then they call this a ruthless blood thirsty dictatorship with human rights violations. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. The right wing media and education system has been severly brainwashing everyone for decades if not centuries.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


while what you say is true,
the bankers are not accountable to the people in any way,
the lack of prosecutions of bankers shows this clearly.

there are many laws that law makers can be held to account under.

truth is both bankers or politicians will both print and corrupt the system.

im not sure what the solution actually is,

neither of them are trust worthy,
xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

while what you say is true,
the bankers are not accountable to the people in any way,
the lack of prosecutions of bankers shows this clearly.

The central bankers are above the law because they issue the currency. Then they feed the politicians with cash to have control over them. A common saying is that you do not bite the hands that feed you.

there are many laws that law makers can be held to account under.

yes in theory, but practice is a different story.

truth is both bankers or politicians will both print and corrupt the system.

im not sure what the solution actually is,

neither of them are trust worthy,
xploder

nationalise the government and then nationalise the central bank. Make the enemy stand out, prosecute them and then punish the guilty. Easier said then done! A capitalist party will never do this because they all belong on the same team: exploiting the lower and middle classes.

The proof is in the plethora of tax breaks and loopholes in the tax code for the wealthy, the outsourcing of jobs, offshore shell companies for money laundering, nations that encourage annonymous banking, tax haven principalities.

The bilderbergers who probably(surely?) have ties to the knights templar run the show. It would take a gigantic international effort to stop this but most people are not even aware of what the problem is and the politicians have no quarrels of continuing the status quo. People pressure can solve problems!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


an education campaign to show the sytem as it is instead of how we think it works?
i like it
but how to make it interesting/

a cartoon/animation?

any ideas?

xploder

reply to post by 11235813213455

I submit that the OWS movement is nothing more than a modern day Bolshevist movement/attempt with very much the same goal as the original.

and i submit the tea party movement is nothing more than modern day robber barrons with very much the same goal as standard oil,
nothing short of world domination.

do you see what i did there?

xploder

Originally posted by tangonine
The sad part is that I think you actually believe your tax money goes someplace useful. (roads, military funding

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

an education campaign to show the sytem as it is instead of how we think it works?
i like it
but how to make it interesting/

a cartoon/animation?

any ideas?

xploder

Nah. Just keep the internet going and sooner or later people, those that want to see, will figure it out on there own. Occupy will keep growing because the tea party and conservatives keep shooting themselves in the foot.

You cannot fight the right directly because they have too much money and money makes the world go round. People who try to expose the crooks have a way of going quiet in mysterious ways. Some commit suicide, some come down with diseases, some get kidnapped by bad people, and some are abducted by aliens. One must be careful and I do NOT mean this in any sarcastic way.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


well im not interested in being disapaired,

so we just sit back do nothing and wait for people to realise?

i would much rather be reasurching science and tech
i study science on the net after all

i hate politics and have no interest in left right arguments.

i think ill go back to changing the world with tech and inovation.

no more politics for me

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


You are doing your part by informing people with real information. I and others do the same thing. Not much more can be done and it is a waiting game. Patience and perserverance tends to win and that is why conservative think tanks pay people to misinform, in the hope of slowing down their inevitable defeat.

unemployment when down when taxes on the upper income earners was higher,
for years we have heard of trickle down economics while the whole time taxes and earnings were shipped off shore,
so trickle down is a big fat republican lie

xploder