Real ID & that Little Gold Star on Your Driver’s License

Originally posted by earthdude
For you people worried about the data on chips, it is only a long number. This is used to find your data on a database. It is not like the chip has any info on you, it is all in the computer.

So you're saying that an ID thief would need access to the database in order to make the captured number useful?

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

The only trouble here is - the "strip" is a magnetic stripe, like a piece of cassette tape. An RFID reader can't read it anyway. Also, the "four layers" thing is a meme. Why four? Why not 1? 20?

If you actually HAVE a credit card with an RFID in it, it's an h-field part anyway, and can't be read at a distance by a store reader. A big problem with RFID CT theories is that most people don't know they're not qualitatively the same, so you get bogus stuff like this.

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by earthdude
For you people worried about the data on chips, it is only a long number. This is used to find your data on a database. It is not like the chip has any info on you, it is all in the computer.

So you're saying that an ID thief would need access to the database in order to make the captured number useful?

He's right. That's what I said earlier - EDL, PASS and the proposed RFID part for Real have nothing but a unique ID, it's a key into a DHS database. There's no personal info on there.

edit to add: it would likely be easier to put stuff in than get it out - people will be issued drivers' licenses every day, and every time they are, it inserts a real id record (or will eventually). That's a NORMAL act. They don't check for putting records in from the DMV - it happens non-stop. Getting info back out, a bit tougher, it leaves tracks. So if you're wanting to put someone in country that will pass the RealID check, all you need to do is bend a DMV staffer, not so tough I would assume.

Originally posted by Believer101
Sorry if I'm daft, OP, but I don't see how getting a star on an ID = an RFID chip. Not everything is a conspiracy, bro. Just sayin'.

The info in my OP was based on info from various sources:

“Even if your state was one of the 25 that have passed either a law or resolution against Real ID, the federal government doesn’t find that fact to be any obstacle at all to continuing to force the states to implement Real ID… Real ID compliant driver’s licenses will be marked with a gold star.”

“The ASI card, also known as ‘the card with the star,’ is marked with a gold star indicating that it’s materially compliant with the Real ID Act’s regulations and can be used as identification for FEDERAL purposes”

However, those who do NOT have a Gold Star will be prohibited from boarding Federally regulated commercial aircraft, among other things, and ANY other purpose that the US Secretary of Homeland Security shall determine. This will kick in by the national compliance deadline of 2017 (?).

Dept of Homeland Security was pushing for the cards to be RFID chipped. Some States are offering the microchipped cards as "Enhanced" cards which can be used for border crossings.

Passports do have RFID chips.

According to Bedlam, Real ID cards can have all of the Benchmark info in barcodes.

Real ID cards require a biometric scan of the face and more stringent requirements for establishing ID & residence.

The Gold Star does indicate that its a Real ID card, but it seems not all States are using the Gold Star at this time.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Believer101

 

The star means its Real ID compliant.
To be compliant it must contain an RFID chip.

I've refused to get one since my last expired.
I haven't driven a car in close to a year because of this stupid law.

Apparently, DHS was/is pushing for the use of RFID chips in the Real ID cards. Twenty-five States were against the Real ID Act of 2005, but the DMV's are enacting it anyway.

Some States are offering "Enhanced" cards (microchipped) that can be used for border crossings.

According to Bedlam, one can have a Real ID DL/ID card with all the info on barcodes, so the RFID is not necessary.

The Gold Star DOES mean the card is a Real ID card.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

The only trouble here is - the "strip" is a magnetic stripe, like a piece of cassette tape. An RFID reader can't read it anyway. Also, the "four layers" thing is a meme. Why four? Why not 1? 20?

If you actually HAVE a credit card with an RFID in it, it's an h-field part anyway, and can't be read at a distance by a store reader. A big problem with RFID CT theories is that most people don't know they're not qualitatively the same, so you get bogus stuff like this.

So are you saying that we do not have to buy "secure" wallets to protect our Real ID or chipped credit cards?

Of course, there's lots of misunderstanding -- the majority do not have a scientific or techie background -- they really do not know how all these gadgets work..

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by earthdude
For you people worried about the data on chips, it is only a long number. This is used to find your data on a database. It is not like the chip has any info on you, it is all in the computer.

So you're saying that an ID thief would need access to the database in order to make the captured number useful?

He's right. That's what I said earlier - EDL, PASS and the proposed RFID part for Real have nothing but a unique ID, it's a key into a DHS database. There's no personal info on there.

edit to add: it would likely be easier to put stuff in than get it out - people will be issued drivers' licenses every day, and every time they are, it inserts a real id record (or will eventually). That's a NORMAL act. They don't check for putting records in from the DMV - it happens non-stop. Getting info back out, a bit tougher, it leaves tracks. So if you're wanting to put someone in country that will pass the RealID check, all you need to do is bend a DMV staffer, not so tough I would assume.

Great info, thank you.

I wonder how much a DMV staffer makes a year? Could be easy to bribe.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

The only trouble here is - the "strip" is a magnetic stripe, like a piece of cassette tape. An RFID reader can't read it anyway. Also, the "four layers" thing is a meme. Why four? Why not 1? 20?

If you actually HAVE a credit card with an RFID in it, it's an h-field part anyway, and can't be read at a distance by a store reader. A big problem with RFID CT theories is that most people don't know they're not qualitatively the same, so you get bogus stuff like this.

Thanks for setting me straight on magnetic strips. Do you have a link for that information by the way? That only a manual swiper can read that? I've seen police read my license and they didn't need to "swipe" it. I have an old license by the way.

Ad as far as aluminum foil, you are right. I heard that one or two layers should be sufficient, I just doubled that for measure. Here'a link that offers another solution involving foil.

Blocking RFID readers

The RFID tags in some of these cards can be read from up to 30 feet away, and the possibility of identity theft concerns some RFID card carriers. Fortunately, since metal effectively blocks radio waves, it's easy to retrofit a wallet to protect cards from RFID scanning.

Originally posted by THEDUDE86
Its NOT a RFID chip.

You can detect those very easily and they are fragile

Good scare you trying to pull though

“… Some chips are very small--less than a half mm square--and thinner than a piece of paper. They are usually hidden or embedded inside different products. Some RFID tags are printed on the product and cannot be removed.”

“The best way to remove RFID tags is to replace the card or have them removed professionally by an technical engineer. In general the smaller the chip, the more difficult it is to remove.”

“You can try damaging the chip by crushing, puncturing or microwaving.”

“You can't drown, wash or demagnetize the chip.”

www.ehow.com...

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I was alerting people to the fact that even though 25 States had legislated against implementing the Real ID Act of 2005, some of those States are going ahead with it.

DHS was/is pushing for the RFID chipped DL/ID card.

RFID chipped cards are being offered in some States without informing people that the card is chipped.

The Gold Star does indicate a Real ID card.

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Believer101

 

The star means its Real ID compliant.
To be compliant it must contain an RFID chip.

I've refused to get one since my last expired.
I haven't driven a car in close to a year because of this stupid law.

www.ehow.com...

Thanks for that info. Useful.

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

Someone else here is telling me I am mistaken about magnetic strips being read by RFID readers. But you should read this one as well about RFID.

www.ehow.com...

RFID manufacturer Texas Instruments brought credit card attorneys to a conference call on Discovery channel's plans to do an RFID show. They told Discovery that a MythBusters show on RFID hacking wouldn't be allowed. One of the fears consumers have is that criminals might get scanners and read personal data at public events. They could even use this data to impersonate their victims. Credit card companies have responded to these concerns by stressing that RFIDs have advanced encryption that's difficult to reproduce and they don't reveal the purchaser's name. RFIDs also have a security code that changes with every transaction so you can't reuse RFID data without a new code.

So yah, watch out. If it is broadcast thru the air it can be captured. And that info is your ID. With it, your accounts may become vulnerable to on line hackers. I don't care if it is "encrypted". People that tell you that just want it kept quiet like on Myth Busters.

If the info "encrypted" in the card authorizes you to maker purchases or withdraw funds then anyone with access to that can read your card (from up to 30 feet away). Buy one of those wallets or wrap your cards in aluminum. I said four but I understand 1 or 2 is enough ( I doubled that for measure).

Also realize that every reader you pass logs the time and date of your "visit". So that is a "tracking" device as well.

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

The only trouble here is - the "strip" is a magnetic stripe, like a piece of cassette tape. An RFID reader can't read it anyway. Also, the "four layers" thing is a meme. Why four? Why not 1? 20?

If you actually HAVE a credit card with an RFID in it, it's an h-field part anyway, and can't be read at a distance by a store reader. A big problem with RFID CT theories is that most people don't know they're not qualitatively the same, so you get bogus stuff like this.

Thanks for setting me straight on magnetic strips. Do you have a link for that information by the way? That only a manual swiper can read that? I've seen police read my license and they didn't need to "swipe" it. I have an old license by the way.

Ad as far as aluminum foil, you are right. I heard that one or two layers should be sufficient, I just doubled that for measure. Here'a link that offers another solution involving foil.

Blocking RFID readers

The RFID tags in some of these cards can be read from up to 30 feet away, and the possibility of identity theft concerns some RFID card carriers. Fortunately, since metal effectively blocks radio waves, it's easy to retrofit a wallet to protect cards from RFID scanning.

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by AuranVector

Originally posted by intrptr
...
Has anybody else mentioned that four layers of tin foil effectively block RFID readers in stores? Wrap your license or credit cards in four layers of tinfoil that cover the strip and they won't be able to read your name from that. With biometrics now... oh well.

Thank you for that tip. I haven't had a chance to google ways to protect the card from unauthorized scanning.

Just posted on the collection of all this biometric info on the citizenry -- scary in its implications.

Someone else here is telling me I am mistaken about magnetic strips being read by RFID readers. But you should read this one as well about RFID.

www.ehow.com...

RFID manufacturer Texas Instruments brought credit card attorneys to a conference call on Discovery channel's plans to do an RFID show. They told Discovery that a MythBusters show on RFID hacking wouldn't be allowed. One of the fears consumers have is that criminals might get scanners and read personal data at public events. They could even use this data to impersonate their victims. Credit card companies have responded to these concerns by stressing that RFIDs have advanced encryption that's difficult to reproduce and they don't reveal the purchaser's name. RFIDs also have a security code that changes with every transaction so you can't reuse RFID data without a new code.

So yah, watch out. If it is broadcast thru the air it can be captured. And that info is your ID. With it, your accounts may become vulnerable to on line hackers. I don't care if it is "encrypted". People that tell you that just want it kept quiet like on Myth Busters.

If the info "encrypted" in the card authorizes you to maker purchases or withdraw funds then anyone with access to that can read your card (from up to 30 feet away). Buy one of those wallets or wrap your cards in aluminum. I said four but I understand 1 or 2 is enough ( I doubled that for measure).

Also realize that every reader you pass logs the time and date of your "visit". So that is a "tracking" device as well.

Thanks for that link. That article is about more than just protecting your RFID chipped cards.

The world of "Minority Report" is coming and it seems to be coming sooner than we think.

There's a lot of conflicting info too. I'm going to try the aluminum foil until I get something better.

I want to thank everyone who responded to this thread. Normally, I do not create threads because I do not have time to monitor them. I'm glad I posted this though, because I learned so much from the people who took the time to share their knowledge.

I'm amazed by what I did not know.

Originally posted by AuranVector
So are you saying that we do not have to buy "secure" wallets to protect our Real ID or chipped credit cards?

Of course, there's lots of misunderstanding -- the majority do not have a scientific or techie background -- they really do not know how all these gadgets work..

I'm not sure what your Real ID UID will tell anyone. There's no info in there other than a long number.

As far as your chipped credit card goes, it can't be read or tracked from a distance. You can read one if you bump someone in the butt with the reader and get lucky. But you've pretty much got to be within a few cm of that card to do any good.

Originally posted by intrptr
So yah, watch out. If it is broadcast thru the air it can be captured. And that info is your ID. With it, your accounts may become vulnerable to on line hackers. I don't care if it is "encrypted". People that tell you that just want it kept quiet like on Myth Busters.

Only if your "Real ID" UID is used in any way for credit or purchases. Which, since the DHS has the database, isn't going to happen. Credit card info is a bit different, but it's passed through an h-field link- there's a reason they didn't use an e-field part.

You don't use your DL number to buy items either.

Also realize that every reader you pass logs the time and date of your "visit". So that is a "tracking" device as well.

It's really the only one, if you can call it that. However, so are your checks, your credit cards, debit cards and cell phone. Soon enough, your eyes, facial structure and build.

Originally posted by intrptr

Thanks for setting me straight on magnetic strips. Do you have a link for that information by the way? That only a manual swiper can read that? I've seen police read my license and they didn't need to "swipe" it. I have an old license by the way.

What, that a magnetic pattern isn't an electronic circuit? That would seem to be obvious. Not sure what you saw, but there's a limited number of ways to read the magnetic pattern off of a surface. Most involve contact or near contact with a read head. You can in no way read it by broadcasting a radio signal at it.

Effectively, it's nothing different than any other recorded magnetic tape. Google "magnetic tape recording" for about 2 million references. Not knowing your technical level, I don't know where to start. I have some sites with fairly upscale algebra showing the math involved in reading and writing magnetic tape. You're going to find that you have to be in very close contact with it to read it. It's just the way it is.

Confirmed , there is a gold Star on my Florida drivers license . The thing I hated most was having to show my original birth certificate to renew my license . Obumer didn't have to show his to be president . He didn't have one and I expressed this openly within the office also .

From what I can find part of a state's compliance is how the person is verified, using documents, and adding the data to a federal database. That is why a birth certificate and SSN card might be needed.

I am glad it appears that my SSN is not in the barcode. Anyone who handles your ID can dump it.

Haven't been able to find a dictionary of the data tag descriptions.

reply to post by Bedlam

Thanks. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. After you pointed it out to me I did some reading on it and realized I was off base there. Thanks again.

You definitely need a swiper to read magnetic tape.