UK ready to take on Israel over fate of children clapped in irons

Originally posted by Kryties

CONTEXT

Perhaps you could be kind enough to explain to us what context these violent exortations for Muslims to spread Islam by the sword were taken out of context from?

I won't hold my breath...

Koran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Koran

Here is the whole Sura where that verse comes from Sura 9

Anyone can read it and see from the context that it means exactly what is says "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day... ...until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Originally posted by Kryties
You may wish to look this up in the dictionary you seem to like referring to.

I seem to recall many instances in the bible where, if the verse is not taken in context, the text reads as something completely different to it's original meaning. The same applies to the Koran, I thought you were smart enough to recognise this.

edit on 28/6/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

If you cant engage the topic and refute the facts, going for the personl attacks just undermines your credability and objectivity. Out of curiosity why are you refusing to apply the context argument to the Israeli - Palestinian issue? You are coming across as extremely biased while claiming your not while accusing others of the very same tactic you use yourself.

Best to remain silent and let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
- Mark Twain

Here is your Bible comparison.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Xcathdra

your agenda

Again with the 'agenda' thing. What agenda is that again, precisely? Is it the one that attempts to extract the truth from the sludge-pit full of lies and deceit? Is it that agenda? Because that is an agenda I am BLOODY PROUD to be following.

I am just throwing the word agenda at you like you have been doing to everyone else. If you have no agenda then why are you unable to discuss Israel in an objective manner? If you have no agenda why are you making excuses and condoning Hamas and their killing of civilians?

Both sides have issues yet for some reason you cant see that.

Why?

I am going to move on from this thread as the op article has been clarified and then ignored by those wishing to see only what they want. The Israel - Palestinian issue is going to continue so long as people have your mindset.

You are not going to change my mind and I cant change yours so there is no point to continue asking and answering the same questions over and over because you want to obfuscate.

Thanks for the chuckle...

Have a good one BiB.

reply to post by ollncasino


LOL, did you seriously change the COLOR code from the word 'context' to pink? Was that supposed to be your pathetic way of having a dig at me, or are you coming out of the closet?

Oh, and as to the question of context itself, chew on these for a while and when you're done I have thousands more examples for you to cry over:

www.evilbible.com...

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)


Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Thanks for the chuckle...

Have a good one.

Bye bye. Twas a nice chat.

Originally posted by Kryties

Kill False Prophets

Is that in the Bible?

No wonder Muslims hate Christianity!

Are you aware that Muhammad practised what he preached?

In the space of a single decade Muhammad

• Fought 8 major battles,
• Led 18 raids,
• Planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet

Major battles were exactly that.

• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.
• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.
• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)

Are Muslims aware that Muhammad was a military leader who spread Islam by the sword?

The Koran and the Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith (scared to Sunnis who make up about 85% of all Muslims worldwide) make it abundantly clear that Muhammad was a military general who spread Islam by the sword.

Were you aware?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Kryties

Kill False Prophets

Is that in the Bible?

Zechariah 13:3 (NAB) as was posted directly after the quote.

Are Muslims aware that Muhammad was a military leader who spread Islam by the sword?

The Koran and the Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith (scared to Sunnis who make up about 85% of all Muslims worldwide) make it abundantly clear that Muhammad was a military general who spread Islam by the sword.

Were you aware?

I was aware that there are a MINORITY of extremists who, just like the Christian Westborough Baptist Church, take the words in their religious texts far too literally and twist the meanings to their own agenda, yes I am aware of that MINORITY.

You wouldn't happen to attend Westborough would you? That would explain a lot actually.

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
Terrorising a child in a sustained manner over days only once in their lives is the same as adults surviving torture over many years; you get a shattered person.

This is sick and it REALLY bothers 1 to see ANY regime treat children in this way. I am not placing judgment on ISRAEL in no way but it doesnt make sense How can they not know/see this type of treatment to the youth wont cause future aggressions towards the people of Israel (so basically its a never ending cycle of HATE) I dont understand...... But it deos not make sense unless the GOAL is to install FEAR in the children to later deter them from opposing the regime in the future but thats a very large goal to obtain based off of fear. 1 just prays that when the time comes this EA*RTH has its act together in the FACE of the LIGHT* for 1 does not think this is exceptable behavior, but I am not the Judge of EA*RTH or Jury of EA*RTH. My HEART is with ALL* the children growing up in this world of IGNORANCE 1 day there WILL be PEACE its just the process to obtain it is not the easiest process.....

Gods chosen people my arse

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady


You do realize that in the same post you disclaimed Wiki as a Zionist website, with supporting links to anti-Zionist websites that contain just as much propaganda and finger-pointing, right? Oh, the delicious irony.

As to the article, I didn't see where it said why these children were supposedly arrested and held. I did see this, however:

While the legal team said it was in no position to prove the truth of the claims of cruelty made repeatedly by Palestinian children, but denied by the Israeli authorities – which offered unprecedented access to the delegation – it pointed to the disparity in the law.

So there isn't even any proof that any of this happened. It's only "some people say they saw this happening" so far.

/TOA

Originally posted by The Old American

So there isn't even any proof that any of this happened. It's only "some people say they saw this happening" so far.

"Some people say" that the Nazi's killed 6 million Jewish people in gas chambers. I guess we shouldn't believe that either based on your rationale.

If a neighboring country would kidnap your children and terrorize them like this ... you would be killing Israelis too! I know I would!

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by The Old American

So there isn't even any proof that any of this happened. It's only "some people say they saw this happening" so far.

"Some people say" that the Nazi's killed 6 million Jewish people in gas chambers. I guess we shouldn't believe that either based on your rationale.

Just going by the article you posted, man. Don't know why you're blaming me because you didn't read the whole article.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


I didn't post any article mate, you may wish to check who you are referring to while you are accusing others of not reading properly.

I simply posted a logical response to your claim that we can't trust "what people say". Your response to this makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Ilovecatbinlady
You have an agenda against the Palestinian people. Say, are you a dual passport holder ;-)

By your own logic, you must have an agenda against the Israeli people.

Last night, Israeli Embassy spokesperson Amir Ofek said the country appreciated the efforts of the delegation but blamed Palestinians who "glorify terrorism".

He said: "As a result [children] are frequently involved in lethal acts. With the Palestinian Authority unable or unwilling to meet its obligation to investigate and prosecute these offences, Israel has no choice but to do so itself.

The Independent

By the way, Hamas in Palestine are Wahhabi Muslims. The school of Islam from which almost all Muslim terrorists come from.

There is no doubt that Palestinians are teaching their children to be terrorists. Or do you see them as freedom fighters?

I suspect you do have an agenda. They say you can judge people by the quality of their friends.

edit on 28-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

I have no love for Israel or the Palestinians, but both are peoples that make a huge number of mistakes. They are both indoctrinating their children to kill, I think that is child abuse. The Zionists/Israeli's are pre-emptively "acting" and the Palestinians are "reacting."

But what caught my eye was the freedom fighter comment. The African National Congress in South Africa was deemed a terrorist organization, until the IMF and UN saw them as a tool for political change in order to rape South African resources. Then suddenly the ANC was full of freedom fighters and of course just as suddenly the poster boy for terror, Nelson Mandela, became the poster boy for peace and reconcilliation. That's the way ad campaigns work ;-) I am not surprised people fell for it since only about 12% of the population can think critically.

So right now, as long as Zionists/Israeli's are pulling the UN and IMF strings, Palestinians will be considered terrorists, but as soon as the Zionists/Israeli's lose their grip on the MSM, the Palestinians will be considered freedom fighters. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, this will eventually turn around and the Zionists/Israeli's will be treated according to their actions, the same thing happened to the nazi's in WWII.

The Israel situation has to do with world view manipulation and what is good for the upper 0.00001% of society on this planet. If I was in control, I would just partition the area known as Israel into two 50% blocks. If they continue fighting, well, that's why there is always Darwinism. It is better to live in peace and cooperation, but it just seems to me that if the Zionists/Israeli's (and maybe the wahabi's) didn't have conflict they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. It's a sick and stupid situation that really needs to stop.

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Quran (2:191-193)

Quran (2:216)

Quran (3:151)

Quran (4:74)

Quran (4:89)

Quran (5:33)

Quran (8:12)

Can you show me where it teaches peace and love?

I agree about the bible / other religions having violent passages as well. However to claim there are no such verses in the Q'uran is not correct.

CONTEXT

[color=gold]CONTEXT

CONTEXT

You may wish to look this up in the dictionary you seem to like referring to.

I seem to recall many instances in the bible where, if the verse is not taken in context, the text reads as something completely different to it's original meaning. The same applies to the Koran, I thought you were smart enough to recognise this.

edit on 28/6/2012 by Kryties because: (no reason given)

Below is a link to a 164 Koran verses about jihad , they give you all the details about Islam conquering by the sword and again I do realize that the Koran has numerous beautiful and peaceful statements although most are designed for fellow Muslims and yes I think you are a Muslim practicing Taqiyya . The above reply from Xcathdra had all the verses when she posted and you erased them leaving just the verse numbers hiding the violence they cite . Not to mention you consistently deflect arguments to avoid the truth of the subject , in this case violence in Islam .

The Jews have been backed in a corner by the surrounding nations , Palestine which by the way means " land of the Philistine " is just a made up people used by their fellow Muslims to justify attacks on Israel. So if they have to put young adults in leg irons just like numerous other countries including America then whats the real issue ? Hate of Jews I am guessing .
www.answering-islam.org...

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Below is a link to a 164 Koran verses about jihad , they give you all the details about Islam conquering by the sword

You must have missed the hefty post I made quoting many instances where the Bible advocates extreme violence against unbelievers and undesirables.

Please peruse THIS LINK for proof, and if you are still unsure, peruse to the link where I copied that info from and marvel at the thousands of other examples of the same.

You could also scroll up 12 posts above yours on this page to view the same post.

The above reply fro Xcathdra had all the verses when she posted and you erased them leaving just the verse numbers hiding the violence they cite .

Wrong, I did that to save space and make the post look a little easier on the eyes rather than quoting the whole thing. I assumed any intelligent person would just look in the Koran themselves, or better yet, go to Xcathedra's post to read the detail of each verse. Your attempt to make it seem like I did this deliberately for any other reason than what I just described is, quite frankly, pathetic.

Not to mention you consistently deflect arguments to avoid the truth of the subject , in this case violence in Islam .

Precisely how have I deflected these arguments? Please quote where I have, and be VERY careful because I know exactly what I posted and what I meant by those posts.

The Jews have been backed in a corner by the surrounding nations , Palestine which by the way means " land of the Philistine " is just a made up people used by their fellow Muslims to justify attacks on Israel.
www.answering-islam.org...

Wow, congratulations on using a biased website to justify your biased point of view. Who would have seen that coming?

pics or it didn't happen

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Azadok2day
So are you saying yor Koran does not advocate that all the world will submit to Allah and mooohammed as his prophet ?

Apologists for Islam make me laugh.

Does Islam mean peace? If anyone has bother to check, a diplomatic translation of 'Islam' is 'unification'.

A less politically correct translation is 'domination'. Check it out with as many translators as you can find.

Islam is the religion of unification. It doesn't have the same ring about it does it?

Certainly, Hamas wants to unify all Palestinians under their extremist Wahhabi Islamic creed.

edit on 28-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

How can people be unified without peace? Also you are wrong about Hamas being a terrorist organization they are fighting against invaders in their lands. This makes them freedom fighters no matter how much you or all the other Zionist supporters cry otherwise.

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady


hate to break it to you but ollncasino is actually posting on topic [see below]
i think his only agenda is to avoid discussion of Britain's use and support for terrorism

reply to post by ollncasino

supporting Hamas, a terrorist group that uses kids as suicide bombers?

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad