UK ready to take on Israel over fate of children clapped in irons

reply to post by Xcathdra


You're missing the point that Israel's track record of genocide is why I believe these claims. The fact that the Israelis denied it and offered "unprecedented access", means jack squat to me - it just means they are bloody good at hiding their crimes.

In the highly unlikely event that these claims are somehow proven false, I will personally eat my foot and post it on ATS for you. If, indeed, they are proven to be true, will you do the same?

Originally posted by Kryties
Israels track record of committing genocide on a people who just want to have their own slice of land and to be left alone is MORE than enough truth for me to conclude what I have.

Genocide? The Palestinians in Gaza have the 7th highest population growth rate in the world. See post above.

Originally posted by Kryties
The fact that the Palestinians fight back is completely understandable considering the atrocities they have had committed against them.

Sadly, their fighting back includes child suicide bombers.

Kiddie Jihad: Child Bombers Terror's Newest Weapon

The modern-day pioneer of Islamic child martyrdom was the Ayatollah Khomeini.

He sent thousands of children to clear minefields during the Iran-Iraq War. Khomeini then passed the baton to Palestinian terror groups, who've shown no qualms about sending children to their deaths.

Goldstein examined the world of Palestinian child bombers in her award-winning film, "The Making of a Martyr.""The state television, the school textbooks, the radio media, their print media, music videos are all teaching these children to become suicide bombers," Goldstein said. "They're teaching them to hate life and love death."

CBN

reply to post by ollncasino


If this 10,000 strong MILITARY force is so... powerful, then why do they only receive.... how did your quote put it.

military style training

And even at that, they must travel to another country.
My military here in the US trains for the most part on US SOIL, we also receive FULL training in many arenas, we are also equipped with the finest implements of death.
I can understand why Palestinian "soldiers" only receive partial training though.

Iranian drill sargent: Ok pull back the rubber band on your slingshot and then release.
Hamas "soldier: Sir, yes sir!

Iranian drill sargent: Ok, light the fuse on your Estes model rocket, and aim at an open field.
Hamas "soldier: Sir, yes sir!

The terrorist state of israel actually gets to practice shooting fish in a barrel, just replace fish with Palestinian.
If I were in the same situation, damn right I'd put on a bomb vest.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

It wouldnt make any sense at all since the charter of Hamas and Hezzbullah call for the destruction of ISrael.

As a result of the genocide committed against them. Why is this so hard to understand?

Originally posted by Kryties
You're missing the point that Israel's track record of genocide is why I believe these claims.

Unconfirmed claims, which means not factual but reported. Making an argument as fact using the info in the article would get you laughed out of a court. Its one thing to read the allegations and do research to confirm them. In this case that did NOT occur. They took the info and wrote the article all the while using words that denotes possibilities but not confirmations.

Originally posted by Kryties
The fact that the Israelis denied it and offered "unprecedented access", means jack squat to me - it just means they are bloody good at hiding their crimes.

Since the article states they can not confirm the complaints from the Palestinians, are they in Israels back pocket assisting with a coverup?

Originally posted by Kryties
In the highly unlikely event that these claims are somehow proven false, I will personally eat my foot and post it on ATS for you. If, indeed, they are proven to be true, will you do the same?

I dont need to do the same.. My very 1st post stated my position and had you bothered to read we wouldnt be having this debate.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
My point is before we break out the torches and pitchforks how about we get more info and actually investigate the "claims" to confirm / debunk before acting.

I never took Israels side, nor did I take the Palestinian side. I stand by my post above - Lets get all the facts and confirm or debunk before taking any action.

As you will agree the 100 meter rush to judgement gets people killed.

Originally posted by Kryties
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. LOVE that quote.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

Eliminate the impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

I love those 2 quotes.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So precisely what do you suggest the Palestinians do when Israel comes knocking with guns and tanks and white phosphorus and leg-irons? Turn around, bend over and take it where the sun don't shine?

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. Another of my favorite quotes while we are trading quote-blows.

Originally posted by Kryties

As a result of the genocide committed against them. Why is this so hard to understand?

Please take the time to learn the defintiion of genocide. If Israel were committing it there would be no Palestinians left.

Using a bait word over and over doesnt make the argument valid or the use of the term true. If we use your definition then the reverse argument can be made about certain groups committing a genocide on Israelis.

Do you not see the destructive cycle?

Both sides are at fault and trying to soley blame one side is insane and unsupported by the evidence.

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

TextPalestinians do not use their children as suicide bombers or human shields. Those zionist lies are meant to dehumanise occupied people.

So all those videos and children's shows indoctrinating the children to hate and die for Allah is just fiction out of Pallywood ? I think not , you have an agenda and justify the murder of civilians by the so called Palestinians and Israel can not defend her self . It is the Arabs that have been the aggressors since the establishment of Israel . Lots of countries were established after WW 2 and the only one attacked on a regular basis is israel .

The truth is it is not about land , it is not about peace but is only about the destruction of Israel . The invented Palestinians are pawns used by the Arabs to destroy Israel , the more children they get Israel to lock up , kill or whatever only helps their cause with the uneducated racists who rant here.

Yo use the term we only want to get rid of the Zionists which. Is code for stoke the ovens we have more Jews to cook . Islam has no tolerance for non Muslims , they use there book of hate to justify taking over the world . That same book tells them it is ok to lie to non Muslims to further the cause of Islam , the same book tells themnotto take. On Muslims as friends and if you have to be nice on the outside but hate them in your heart .

Seriously how can any person trust someone that believes in a book that says .....ok lie to your fellow man , hate him in your heart ......cut their heads off if they don't accept Islam The Quran is pure evil dotted with some lovely peaceful statements towards other Muslims .

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Muckster
Answer a simple question...

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

There you go... that’s the crux of the thread... now answer please!

Your point was dealt with by Xcathdra Here

It is a great pity that you have replied in this thread without reading its posts. Its only on page 2 after all.

edit on 28-6-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

Err... no no no... You answer the question please... not divert to someone else’s opinion or deflect by answering with another question. I asked you a direct question... have the decency to give a direct answer!

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

Answer that and i shall answer...

Is it right or wrong for Israelis to arrest children who have been trained to be terrorists??

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Xcathdra

It wouldnt make any sense at all since the charter of Hamas and Hezzbullah call for the destruction of ISrael.

As a result of the genocide committed against them. Why is this so hard to understand?

Genocide?

What part of the Gaza strip Palestinians having the 7th highest population growth rate don't you understand?

Link

'Paradise Camps' Teach Palestinian Children To Be Suicide Bombers

Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres called Monday for a global information campaign into the phenomenon of suicide bombings.

The call came after it emerged that the militant Islamic Jihad is operating summer camps in the Gaza Strip for youngsters, some as young as 11, to instill in them the virtues of becoming suicide bombers.

CNS News

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Please take the time to learn the defintiion of genocide. If Israel were committing it there would be no Palestinians left.

It wouldn't be for lack of trying.

And stop being patronising. I am fully aware of the definitions of the various words I use, I even manage not to screw up their spelling either unlike some other people in this thread. Being patronising will get you absolutely NOWHERE with me.

Using a bait word over and over doesnt make the argument valid or the use of the term true. If we use your definition then the reverse argument can be made about certain groups committing a genocide on Israelis.

You claim I am baiting yet your continual patronising of me shows where you are really coming from.

Both sides are at fault and trying to soley blame one side is insane and unsupported by the evidence.

The difference is that Israel has a military financed by the US and has unlimited resources and started the war, unlike the Palestinians who throw homemade bombs trying to defend themselves against a behemoth.

Originally posted by Kryties
So precisely what do you suggest the Palestinians do when Israel comes knocking with guns and tanks and white phosphorus and leg-irons? Turn around, bend over and take it where the sun don't shine?

I would suggest they take control of their future and lives and tell Hamas / Hezzbullah / Syria / Iran / extremists groups to quit using their plight in order to fight a political battle at their expense. I would tell them to get the hell out of Gaza / West Bank so a Palestinian nation can be formed, laying the ground work to resolve other outstanding issues like East Jerusalem, West Bank settlements etc.

So long as rockets and homicide bombers continue, Israel is going to continue their policies. Has it ever occured that just maybe Hamas / Hezzbullah / extremists groups arent interested in peace or a Palestinian nation? Sure they claim they are but their actions speak to the contrary. Their stated goals (in their charters) calls for the destruction of Israel, in total.

Since that is not an option Hamas and the other groups have singlehandedly thrown the Palestinians under the bus when it comes to their own nation independent of Israel.

Please tell me how Israel can negotiate with a loaded gun to their head? Israel is ok with a Palestinian State.. Sadly Hamas and other groups aren't.

Originally posted by Kryties
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. Another of my favorite quotes while we are trading quote-blows.

Yes we all know how violent Hamas can be. Again they dont want a separate palestinian state. They want Israel gone and will not stop until that occurs so I ask you again -

How can Isreal negotitate in good faith when Hamas is holding a loaded gun to their head?
How can Hamas claim to represent the Palestinian people when their goal is the destruction of Isreal?

That stance alone, by Hamas and other groups, means there will never be a separate palestinian state. To them Israel must be rmeoved to accomplish it.

reply to post by ollncasino


And just to make another point...

Answer a simple question...

Is it right or wrong for Israelis to arrest children who have been trained to be terrorists??

There you go... that’s the crux of the thread... now answer please!

Wether it is right or wrong for Israelis to arrest children is NOT the crux of this thread. Just so you understand... i am using the word Crux in the context of...

crux
noun crucial point, heart, core, essence, nub, decisive point He said the crux of the matter was economic policy.

If you read the OP it is clearly talking about the treatment of children by the Israelis...

From the OP...

The Israelis seem to be engaged in a deliberate campaign to process as many Palestinian children as possible through this system of terror. Children as young a six years old are raided by Swat like Israeli soldiers in the middle of the night. They put the kids in shackles and hoods over their heads as a procedural routine.

So you see... the crux of this thread is not whether "it is right or wrong for Israelis to arrest children who have been trained to be terrorists"

Just thought i'd make that point!

They are BOTH wrong

You cannot defend the indefensible..

The end..

reply to post by Kryties

TextThe difference is that Israel has a military financed by the US and has unlimited resources and started the war, unlike the Palestinians who throw homemade bombs trying to defend themselves against a behemoth.

You do realize that every area in contention has Arab states abutting them , yet they get no assistance from these states ....WHY ? .......... Because they are pawns used by their own Muslim brothers to die and be abused to make Israel look bad .

Did you ever protest the annex of Lebanon by Syria ? The slaughter of tens of thousands of Christians in Lebanon by the Muslims ? The rapes and beatings of the other Christians to drive them from the land ?

Hypocrisy is rife here ! It's all about hate .... The hate of Jews and that's all your about

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Yes we all know how violent Hamas can be. Again they dont want a separate palestinian state. They want Israel gone and will not stop until that occurs so I ask you again -

How can Isreal negotitate in good faith when Hamas is holding a loaded gun to their head?
How can Hamas claim to represent the Palestinian people when their goal is the destruction of Isreal?

That stance alone, by Hamas and other groups, means there will never be a separate palestinian state. To them Israel must be rmeoved to accomplish it.

Maybe Hamas was driven to the point of wanting Israel destroyed when they had to pick up the remains of their families splattered across the streets by Israeli weapons?

Or would that make too much sense?

Originally posted by Muckster
Err... no no no... You answer the question please... not divert to someone else’s opinion or deflect by answering with another question. I asked you a direct question... have the decency to give a direct answer!

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

Answer that and ill shall answer...

"We were sitting in court and saw a section of a preliminary hearing when a very young looking child, a boy, was brought in wearing a brown uniform with leg irons on.

Under the UN guidelines, leg irons are legal if used appropriately, for instance if the child was a flight risk while being transported between detention and court.



Palestinian TV Show Celebrates Ramadan with ‘The Best Mothers’…of Suicide Bombers

To celebrate the Muslim holiday of Ramadan, Palestinian TV has launched a new program called “The Best Mothers.“ But who constitutes the ”best mothers” according to Palestinians?

Apparently ones whose children were suicide bombers who killed innocent Israelis and themselves, and hence, became “martyrs.”

The 10-minute segment, that reportedly airs every day, features a different Palestinian mother in her home, talking about the children of whom she is most proud.

Palestinian Media Watch reported that last week, PA TV chose to interview the mother of Darin Abu Aisheh, a suicide bomber who blew herself up at a roadblock in 2002, wounding three Israelis.

Link

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Hypocrisy is rife here ! It's all about hate .... The hate of Jews and that's all your about

Says the person who clearly hates Muslims. What was that you were saying about hypocrisy?

I know you asked him but I would like to respond as well.

Originally posted by Muckster
Err... no no no... You answer the question please... not divert to someone else’s opinion

The post of mine you are being referred to is not my opinion. I highlighted the parts of the article to support the argument that the claims were not confirmed, meaning they are claims and not facts. To ignore that part of the article and to try and pass it off as it actually occuring is disingenuous and only reinforces the view of an agenda.

Originally posted by Muckster
or deflect by answering with another question. I asked you a direct question... have the decency to give a direct answer!

Is it right or wrong to keep children in leg irons??

Answer that and ill shall answer...

It depends on the circumstances behind it. Until we know the details its a loaded question. You are trying to get a definitive answer based on the report of one minor in legcuffs in court. Until we know the reasons, the charges and the back history of the individual its almost impossible to give you the answer you want. By trying to limit the parameters while ignoring the facts, again, is disingenuous.

While I subscribe to the innocent until proven guilty setup, we need more information to make an informed decision. Legcuffs are an accepted tool used in detention settings, including minors. Legcuffs are an accepted tool used when transporting defendents from jail / prison / detention to court proceedings.

Until we have more info, there is no way to answer your question in the manner you want.

Originally posted by Kryties

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Hypocrisy is rife here ! It's all about hate .... The hate of Jews and that's all your about

Says the person who clearly hates Muslims. What was that you were saying about hypocrisy?

I absolutely do not hate muslims or any other person for that manner . What I do hate , abhore and detest is their Koran , the book as I stated is about hate and dotted with some very nice verses that apply to Muslims only because in the end , Islam wants to rule the world with zero tolerance for any other persons .