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Could there have been a lost civilization along the Colorado River?

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posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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Let me start out by saying that I've shaved my head to avoid being compared to Giorgio Tsoukalos, and more to the point, I'm not 100% sold on this idea myself.

However, considering the myriad forms of weirdness readily embraced and repeated here in So Cal, I'm a little surprised that I've never heard about any of this stuff from a local in person, but rather hear a sentence or two about once in a while on questionable sources, and upon research can usually find a few even more questionable old articles about, usually similar but from different time periods and contradicting each other in certain respects. So that's enough hedging my bet- I acknowledge that this is far from "proof" of any kind, just the occasion for a question.


Anyway, I was driving across the Mojave the other day, headed from a family visit in Nevada back to my home in So Cal, when I saw something I'd never noticed before. For one thing I usually make my desert runs at night, but for another I had just taken the time to learn considerably more about certain local legends than I ever had before.

Below is a photo of what I noticed. To me it looks like this hill has been carved into the figure of a fat man with a rather unhuman looking snout. I thought I could make out an ear and an arm on the near side, and two eyes. It's HIGHLY debatable, especially given that I had just learned things that would encourage me to see something like this perhaps. I have 2 or 3 minutes of video, but this is pretty much as good as it gets, and I didn't take the time to climb or to go further off road for a different angle, though I would like to sometime, probably after the summer has passed.



The story I had just read up on that I think may have influenced me to see it was that of the Si-Te-Cah: a legendary race of red-haired cannibal giants who mummified their dead.
Here is theWikipedia article on the legend, and to give credit where credit is due, here is Stormdancer777's thread on the Si-Te-Cah from 2010,

This appears to have come up again and again over the years, with underground tunnels/caverns and giant mummies being a fairly consistent theme. The find in Lovelock, NV and the related story from Sarah Winnemucca Hopkins seem to be the best known, and may have been the first to involve giants or mummies, though I'm not sure. It will probably take me some time to actually document what I'm just gonna say for now, but there were reported (reports obviously being a different thing from reality sometimes) to have been discoveries in Death Valley circa 1850, 1920 and 1946-47 (probably the basis of Manson's interest- Charles Manson allegedly wanted to lead his followers to safety in underground tunnels beneath Death Valley if he could succeed in touching off a race war in America), as well as 1911 in Lovelock, NV. I also remember reading about a supposed secret cave somewhere on the canyon walls above the Colorado in an off-limits area of the Grand Canyon, and a very similar story from Mount Shasta, which is EXTREMELY suspect (some connection with Mu/Lumaria and a "channeled" book called "A Dweller on Two Planets"). So obviously its not a simple matter of throwing up a few links- I'll want to look at the order and similarity of the stories and try to sort out which stories have what kind of evidence and which stories might be derived from earlier ones, etc...

My gut feeling is that I'll end up with 1 or 2 stories that may have once been backed by evidence which is now lost (there was supposed to be a 15-inch sandal from the Lovelock cave in the Lovelock Museum up until the 1950s, but good luck proving that) then there will probably be 3 or 4 stories which are pure derivative BS, and maybe 1 or 2 more that don't seem to be related but also have no evidence.

If anyone is better informed on the various stories that tie into this I'd love to hear a bit about it. Cause lets face it, even if it's just a story, it's still a pretty fun one, and if it has even the slightest basis in the unexplained, that's even cooler.




posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Subbed so i can have a read when i wake up.
05:18 am here.
Will return with me thoughts later.
Cheers

303



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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The whole thing to me just screams out COVER-UP!

Hoax? Not a freaking chance...

The only thing I see that is EXTREMELY suspect is the fraud that is masquerading as "Science" and lying to us about the REAL history of this world.

There are FAR too many pieces of evidence that were either buried, lost or just plain lied about over the years.


"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK


"A cave full of giant skeletons was found by telephone employees near Santa Barbara, California. Unfortunately, the cave entrance was sealed shut before proper excavation could be conducted."

"A giant skeleton on Santa Cruz Island, California, was sent to the National Science Foundation in Washington, D.C., where it was promptly "misplaced". Source


"...the sad fact remains that the most persistent commonality between all of these tales seems to be that the bones - the physical evidence - have all somehow gone missing.

If, as Stephen Quayle seems convinced, there is a concerted conspiracy of silence surrounding this archeological evidence, then it is a conspiracy of, well, gigantic proportions. The accounts of these giant remains are too numerous and too far-flung for all of them to have been lost, stolen, or secreted away. And yet, I truly believe the accounts. They are supported not only by an overwhelming body of evidence found in mythology, but an equally overwhelming body of archeological evidence." SOURCE


Quest for Death Valley Giants and the Cover Up

I asked about what happened to the full bodies and the older curator said University of Berkeley had came and taken all the giant skeletons away for study decades ago and this was all that had survived that grab. ...if you research into giants or other races they will end your career immediately, we are told to say it’s all 1800’s media fraud regardless of the evidence, in fact they think they have found a living tribe of Neanderthals in northernmost Canada, but I don’t know anymore about it, it’s pretty controversial, again if you ask questions you’ll be working at McDonalds tomorrow”. Source

They ARE hiding this stuff from us... but WHY?


Well, evidences abound, and this is one. I should say that there could be many more at hand, but when they have been found by Darwinians, they have been ignored, hidden or simply destroyed. Destroyed by those who later on demand such evidence. An example of this is the "mysterious" disappearance of more than 50 perfectly kept gigantic antediluvian skeletons (between 10-14 feet tall) found in a cave in Arizona. You may, or not, have heard that Mr. Samuel Hubbard, discovered remains of giants in a cave in the magnificent Grand Canyon of Arizona."Source


"...authorities ordered the skeleton and all the artifacts secretly reburied- and, of course, lost to the scientific study they deserved.” Source


“the biggest cover-up in the history of mankind is the history of mankind itself”


“There are two histories: official history, lying, and then secret history, where you find the real causes of events.” ~ Honoré de Balzac



edit on 27-6-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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My uncle has a ranch in the middle of mountains up in Colorado. Ive been wanting to hit the grand canyon and trek off into those places all my life.

Though, the treking off part was foiled when I discovered what kind of nasty bugs you can get out there. Some that stay with you for life, and found commonly deep in the canyon.

eww!



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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Well having lived in the area my whole life and knowing death valley and the surrounding Las Vegas canyons like the back of my hand i would have to say the theory isn't crazy, In the Redrock area alone you can find hundreds of examples of what looks to be ancient human intervention but the question always remains, was it simply primitive peoples that were dwelling in the area for a very long time, carving and leaving a mark? I have found canyons deep in the Mcullough wilderness south of Las Vegas with petroglyph's on hills that would take some extreme skill and b*ll's for lack of a better word to climb,literally hundreds of feet up, and i don't think it is too far fetched to assume there were large groups climbing on and carving rock faces as monuments either for thrill or spiritual reverance. Now for the matter of giants well that's something i have absolutely no experience with. but that is just my theory, i notice rocks like the one you have pointed out that are just sometimes too fishy but i always tell myself its cloud vision.
edit on 26-6-2012 by POPtheKlEEN89 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Hoax? Not a freaking chance...

They ARE hiding this stuff from us... but WHY?


Just to clarify, who are 'they'? Please be precise



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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I'm thrilled with the level of interest and all the responses, and I've seen a few things in the responses I will want to include in my further reading.

One more thing I want to toss out there, because I had initially not thought much of it but was then surprised I couldn't google it...

This weekend my brother mentioned that he's been dirt biking quite a bit in Nevada and has seen petroglyphs that seem to depict telephone poles. He didn't consider it all that significant, he just said, "I didn't realize they (natives who would create petroglyphs, not the telephone poles) were out there that long, but I guess some of them must have been able to stay out of the way".

Has anybody else ever heard of or seen such a thing, or is this actual news (or were telegraph lines basically the same in appearance and present early enough that this would make sense?)



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Have him take some pictures for us.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
"...petroglyphs that seem to depict telephone poles. Has anybody else ever heard of or seen such a thing...)

What you are describing sounds a lot like the "Fifth Sign" from the prophecies of the Hopis.


"The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web."

"The Fifth Sign is a clear image of our electric power and telephone lines."


I believe that this is why many of the "Out of Place" artifacts are so out of place, they are simply drawings that portray a dream or a vision that someone had of the future.

If you had a dream or a vision of something that never existed or you had never seen before, HOW would you be able to describe it? The words telephone and wire did not exist yet. So you have one choice: a drawing.

For example George Washington saw a vision of a nuclear war taking place in the future. He described it as "a light, as of a thousand suns" simply because the words "nuclear war" did not exist yet.


Near Oraibi, Arizona, there is a petroglyph known as Prophecy Rock which symbolizes many Hopi prophecies.

The ancient Hopi Indians of the American Southwest have long predicted the end of the 4th World, our current warlike, out-of-balance way of life. After the Great Flood, this prophecy was carved into a rock for future peoples to see and understand. The emerging consensus is that the nine signs of this prophecy have now come to pass, and the emergence of the 5th World, a better way of living that is in balance with Nature and the Cosmos, is shortly at hand, after a troubled transition time. There are many signs of this transition about us, from global warming to the oil crisis.

Interpreting the Hopi Prophecy of the Fifth World



"The stone, also called the "Hopi Prophesy Stone," is now hidden from the view of cameras and non-Hopi visitors. LaVan Martineau copied and translated the strange marks and revealed a message that has special meaning to Native Americans and all people of our planet-- especially during the impending new cycle Prophecy Rock


"The signs are interpreted as follows: The First Sign is of guns. The Second Sign is of the pioneers' covered wagons. The Third Sign is of longhorn cattle. The Fourth Sign describes the railroad tracks. The Fifth Sign is a clear image of our electric power and telephone lines. The Sixth Sign describes concrete highways and their mirage-producing effects. The Seventh Sign foretells of oil spills in the ocean. The Eighth Sign clearly indicates the "Hippy Movement" of the 1960s. The Ninth Sign was the U.S. Space Station Skylab, which fell to Earth in 1979. According to Australian eye-witnesses, it appeared to be burning blue."


"My people await Pahana, the lost White Brother, [from the stars] as do all our brothers in the land. He will not be like the white men we know now, who are cruel and greedy. we were told of their coming long ago. But still we await Pahana.

"These comprise the nine most important prophecies of the Hopis, connected with the creation of the nine worlds: the three previous worlds on which we lived, the present Fourth World, the three future worlds we have yet to experience, and the world of Taiowa, the Creator, and his nephew, Sotuknang."

The Hopi and others who were saved from the Great Flood made a sacred covenant with the Great Spirit never to turn away from him. He made a set of sacred stone tablets, called Tiponi, into which he breathed his teachings, prophecies, and warnings.

World War III will be started by those peoples who first revealed the light (the divine wisdom or intelligence) in the other old countries (India, China, Islamic Nations, Africa.)

The United States will be destroyed, land and people, by atomic bombs and radioactivity. Only the Hopis and their homeland will be preserved as an oasis to which refugees will flee. Bomb shelters are a fallacy. "It is only materialistic people who seek to make shelters. Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the great shelter of life. There is no shelter for evil. Those who take no part in the making of world division by ideology are ready to resume life in another world, be they Black, White, Red, or Yellow race. They are all one, brothers." Hopi Prophecy


Has the Seventh Sign of Hopi Prophecy Come True?

ATS thread about the Seventh Sign Coming True




edit on 27-6-2012 by Murgatroid because: Added link



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Hoax? Not a freaking chance...

They ARE hiding this stuff from us... but WHY?

Just to clarify, who are 'they'? Please be precise

"They" have an interest in keeping the population dumbed down which is why YOU most likely don't believe "They" even EXIST.

So please tell me WHAT would even be the point of trying to explain who "they" are to someone who has been a veteran of ATS for five years and STILL believes "THEY" do not exist?



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

So please tell me WHAT would even be the point of trying to explain who "they" are to someone who has been a veteran of ATS for five years and STILL believes "THEY" do not exist?


Because there are multiudes of answers to that question, which of the dozens of 'theys' talked about on ATS are you in fear of? Who, based on your comments above, is it that you think controls the entire world's crop of archaeologists and specialist associated with that profession? How do they do it and for what reason?

I have found that people use that term, 'they' as a cliche while knowing nothing about the subject in which they are applying it to.



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid
For example George Washington saw a of a nuclear war taking place in the future. He described it as "a light, as of a thousand suns" simply because the words "nuclear war" did not exist yet.


Actually he didn’t it comes from a story made up in 1859 and dealt with the troubles in the United States that would lead to the Civil War

The story about GW made up in 1859



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
I have found that people use that term, 'they' as a cliche while knowing nothing about the subject in which they are applying it to.

This is what I have found:


"You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep." ~ Native American Proverb



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Hanslune
I have found that people use that term, 'they' as a cliche while knowing nothing about the subject in which they are applying it to.

This is what I have found:


"You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep." ~ Native American Proverb



This is what I have found:

It would appear that you do as so many other do on ATS, you just use that statement (blaming 'they'); not knowing what it means, not having considered it....... because you find that you can repeat what you've been told to believe as a substitute for knowing anything about the subject, lol



posted on Jun, 27 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
Actually he didn’t it comes from a story made up in 1859 and dealt with the troubles in the United States that would lead to the Civil War

The story about GW made up in 1859

Actually he DID. Snopes is 100% DISINFORMATION. SNOPES is the one "making up stories". STOP believing the LIES! You could probably "debunk" every conspiracy theory that has ever been posted on ATS using Snopes.

Before you run off to look for ANOTHER NWO financed site to debunk with, the search engines are massively dominated by sites that are filled with nothing but LIES. Your job of debunking the truth has been made SO much easier thanks to "THEM".

Snopes is just ONE out of millions of sites that endlessly repeat the lies that "they" have been telling us since time began. At SOME point in life you MUST admit that you have been deceived and ditch the LIES. The sooner the better for your OWN sake.

MOST of us hate disinformation because it is nothing but LIES. Lies are why you believe "THEY" do NOT exist. "THEY" are the ones telling you the lies. Look at who owns Snopes, that should tell you ALL you need to know.


A warning . . . apparently you CANNOT rely on Snopes. They may be part of the media that is working to suppress the truth or spreading disinformation. Snopes apparently never fact-checked and simply 'parroted' the propaganda and lies taken from government websites or spewed forth by ...

Snopes' Credibility Damaged


Snopes is a large part of the liberal propaganda machine ...

I have submitted several things to Snopes which I know to be true that Snopes claimed were bogus. Snopes is heavily financed by George Soros; a big time supporter of Obama! Yep you got it; Snopes Lied!

Snopes funded by Soros.. and people are still stupid enough to believe it


Is Snopes A Disinformation Operation?

For those of you that put your trust in Snopes...

Many of the emails that have been sent or forwarded that had any anti Obama in it were negated by Snopes. I thought that was odd. Check this out.

Snopes, Soros and the Supreme Court's Kagan. We-l-l-l-l now, I guess the time has come to check out Snopes! You don't suppose it might not be a good time to take a second look at some of the stuff that got kicked in the ditch by Snopes, do you?

We've known that it was owned by a lefty couple but hadn't known it to be financed by Soros!

Snopes is heavily financed by George Soros, a big time supporter of Obama! In our Search for the truth department, we find what I have suspected on many occasions.

LINK

So much for Snopes.com… another propaganda arm funded by George Soros and the Democratic Party!



edit on 27-6-2012 by Murgatroid because: Added link



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Hanslune
I have found that people use that term, 'they' as a cliche while knowing nothing about the subject in which they are applying it to.

This is what I have found:


"You can't wake someone who is pretending to be asleep." ~ Native American Proverb



This is what I have found:

It would appear that you do as so many other do on ATS, you just use that statement (blaming 'they'); not knowing what it means, not having considered it....... because you find that you can repeat what you've been told to believe as a substitute for knowing anything about the subject, lol


Isn't education nothing but being told what to believe, but in a more official way?



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Isn't education nothing but being told what to believe, but in a more official way?


The education I received was in critical thinking and evaluating evidence, something I did my best to pass on to my students when I was in education.

Furry I suggest you enroll in a college level class in archaeology or anthropology - I believe you'd be surprize at what they teach; techniques, methodology but not dogma. I've seen dogma taught in some of the ME schools where I worked on curriculum. Most annoying



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 


Actually he didn't. So you were afraid to mention the NWO as the 'THEY'? I wonder why that was? Now that you took that giant leap you just need to explain how they run the entire science community and in particular archaeology

I await your evidence



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 04:30 AM
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Some of the links on the recommended thread are very suspect, showing Rameses I as a giant mummy etc. The link that isn't suspect only mentions pottery, basket etc artefacts rather than giant people.

Is there any credible evidence of these giants that you could provide?

It could be possible but some sites just make up stories and are best avoided, so any real proof would be good.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 




I am a college dropout. If only I had time to consider college. Of course, not for work. Just for pleasure.





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