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SHTF... Silencers... good or bad?

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posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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I found this article for a .22 LR with a silencer and subsonic ammunition. This is my ideal setup for decent protection and hunting small game. From the tests done, not much more than the firing pin is audible. IMO, in a SHTF scenario, silence is golden. I would think that everyone would want to conceal as much noise as possible as not to give away their location.

www.silencerresearch.com...



SM2

posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by Catalyst317
 


well, the article says it hovers around 110db, that is much louder then just the fire pin drop. secondly, the suppressor will suppress the sound levels close to the shooter, but down range, it does not really do much to suppress the noise. For example, the suppressors from say Yankee Hill machine or surefire are high quality units, and using the 5.56 Nato model, which would be typically for an AR platform rifle will lower the DB at the shooter to about 138db, about that of an unsuppressed .22 magnum. Down range at the target, the sound level is essentially unchanged from what it normally would be. Some models and brands do offer more of an effect, and their cost does reflect that. All the stuff you see on tv and in the movies with large caliber rifles and pistols using suppressors and you just hearing the little "chink chink" of the action is just that...hollywood production. Just for your reference look at the 110db level on this spl comparison chart ....


www.soundinstitute.com...


as you can see 110db is louder then a can manufacturing plant, a boiler factory and heavy street traffic. Normal conversation is around 60 db.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Age old argument. Would you sacrifice stopping power to be able to carry more ammunition? Truth be told, if you were to use a .22 or even .22 magnum, you may just piss the guy off.

My bedside firearm is a glock 23 with a tlr-3 tactical light on it. It fires a .40 caliber round and has the stopping power of a 45 with the velocity of a 9mm.

Buying a silencer or "can" requires a level 3 permit, which is somewhat difficult to obtain. Most reliable sound supressors run around 1000 bucks and up as well. Eventually the can wears out and either has to be re-baffled or a whole new one is required. Very pricey. Sub sonic rounds are sometimes difficult to acquire as well.

I can buy shot shells in .40 which fires 100 bb's to take out small rodents and snakes, which here in Texas comes in handy.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by SM2
 


Thank you for pointing that out. I misread the article and just noticed that "Action noise is nothing more than the fall of the firing pin". I guess I need to read more carefully. However, this seems to be the quietest option. How far away would someone need to be to not hear the shot based on this setup?


SM2

posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Catalyst317
 


well even the high end suppressors only suppress out to about a 75 feet radius. So, if you could hear a subsonic .22 round out to so say 1000 yards unsuppressed, then you would still hear it out to 1000 yards with a suppressor. The suppressor does effectively nothing down range. The purpose of a suppressor is not to make your shots undetectable by others, but to allow you to fire your weapon with out the need for hearing protection which could be a determinant out in the field. Further more, as was pointed out by another, a .22 is a weak round, for hunting it is only reliable for small game, such as rabbit, squirrel etc. Add in that you would be using a subsonic round, and now you have reduced the effectiveness even more. A .22 subsonic has about as much stopping power as a pellet gun (ok a little bit of an over exaggeration but you get the idea. )



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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I had the pleasure of meeting Mitchell Livingston Worbell the 3rd back in 1976. He is credited with being the creator in part, of the modern day silencer.
en.wikipedia.org...

I actually went to his estate in Powder Springs and I pissed the guy OFF! (Reminder to self, NEVER flip pages through someone elses guest registry again) Hey I was 18 and stoopid.

He calmed down, and then we went and watched one of his kids fishing in the backyard pond with a 12 gauge. (No joke,like the old "shaddup and fish" joke)

Anyways, there have been a series of TV shows showing decibals and silencers. TV and Movie drama's have completely distorted the amount of decibal reduction.

They're still fricking LOUD!

Go for the power.

If you need to fire a weapon, it's going to be heard.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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Silencers are expensive. Well any good one is expensive.

My silenced 7.62 sounds like a surpressed 9 mil

My slienced .40 also sounds like a supressed 9 mil

My 10 inch blade sounds like, well....... Nothing!!!! Hahahahaha

Sometimes you might want to thin the heard in a different manner.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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YIKES is Worbells Wiki story scarey. I didn't know him THAT well. I met the guy once.
(Distancing himself)



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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So, other than the noise reduction while firing as to not need ear protection, are there any other benefits from using a silencer? It seems like it just an expensive version of ear plugs... Not to mention the loss of power that has been brought up.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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the use of silencers ARE ALSO to be used so the enemy cant hear from where the shot originated.yes if you use a silencer(suppressor) on a medium or high velocity rifle there will still be a down range supersonic crack,but the downrange people wont hear the discharge of the weapon and wont have an easy time locating the silenced shooter.if enemy is 100 yrds or farther away they wont hear the bolt clack.in most outdoor envirinments there is always noise.In veitnam 2 man sniper teams went out at night with a XM-21 (sniper grade M-14), fitted with a suppressor ,and a nighvision scope,that suppressor wasent there on the rifle for the benifit of the 2-man team,they didnt talk once in enemy territory, only hand signals.it was there so the enemy could'nt locate the position of the sniper team..those 2-man teams ruled the night.most engagments were 200-600 M. NVA patrol didnt know they being shot at till they saw one of their group dead on the ground.Today SWAT teams use silencers and suppressors(a suppressor is a modified silencer made for medium and high velocity rounds)for both audio and visual communications.A Moderator is a simplified silencer used on mostly pistol caliber weapons,they quieten the weapon just below the threshold of hearing damage,120 DBL, this again allows audio communication, and suppressors and moderators are cheaper and can be user cleaned and maintained. A true silencer is to be used on subsonic weapons for truly silent use, on manualy operated weapons, or semi and full auto weapons modified with a bolt lock, for single shot use.The first round out of a freshly cleaned silencer is always louder than the rest of the rounds fired,as a result, manufacture have come up with liquid cooling capability, the user takes a small aerosol can and sprays into end of silencer no more than a minute before use , this eliminates the dreaded "first round pop".some "cans"(silencers) come with a fitted plug just for this purpose, user can spray into silencer and then insert plug, for carrying, then remove plug just berore use.Who uses these quite silencers you ask???????? mostly Federal government agencys and the military.."SAR" small arms review is a monthly mag that has a lot of articles on "cans" and class 2 &3 weapons and such.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
well even the high end suppressors only suppress out to about a 75 feet radius. So, if you could hear a subsonic .22 round out to so say 1000 yards unsuppressed, then you would still hear it out to 1000 yards with a suppressor.



Originally posted by madokie
yes if you use a silencer(suppressor) on a medium or high velocity rifle there will still be a down range supersonic crack,but the downrange people wont hear the discharge of the weapon and wont have an easy time locating the silenced shooter.


So, if using a suppressor, someone would hear the shot fired if the round went supersonic? I'm a little confused. I tried looking this up online, but every place I looked had a lot of technical information that sounds like a foreign language to me.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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By the time the shot is heard, the bullet has traveled past the target. Thus, no noise for the intended target.
Surrounding area will hear the shot, with or without a silencer.


SM2

posted on Jun, 25 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by niceguybob
By the time the shot is heard, the bullet has traveled past the target. Thus, no noise for the intended target.
Surrounding area will hear the shot, with or without a silencer.


exactly. I would like to point that a previous poster was incorrect as a silencer and a suppressor are the same thing. They are not two different pieces of equipment. They work on the same principal as a car muffler. They use baffles and sometimes a fluid in addition to the baffles to redirect the gasses and sound waves.

Additional benefits of using a suppressor would be reduced recoil, which would only matter if using a larger caliber. A suppressed .300 win mag would reduce the felt recoil to a more comfortable level. A suppressed .338 lupua mag would have the felt recoil about equivalent to the a unsuppressed .308 Winchester or 7.62 nato . They can also increase accuracy over and above the accuracy increase you would get from the reduced recoil. The draw backs are, they are expensive, they are typically only good for roughly 1000-1500 rounds before they need to be replaced or re baffled. They reduce the velocity of the round which translate to less range and less energy at point of impact.

One of the good things if you are really in the market for one, is they can be interchangeable. Like, letrs say you have a .308 with a threaded barrel and an ar 15 chambered in either .223 remington or 5.56 nato. You would purchase a suppressor for a .30 (which covers .300 win mag, .300wssm, .30-30, 30-06, 308, .30 carbine and 7.62x39) You get one of the ones that uses a quick detach adapter and it could also be used on a .223/5.56 nato , the only draw back is instead of it reducing the spl down to 135ish , it would only get it down below 138, which would still be in the safe area for no hearing protection. OSHA recommends hearing protection for sound levels beginning at 140 db .

As some anecdotal evidence goes...A local gun shop I deal with a lot took a .30 cal surefire suppressor and mounted a QD adapter on a mac-10 chambered in 9mm. then they went out the back door and fired off about 20 rounds in full auto and really all you heard at the door was the action noise and a slight crack, however, 300 yards away another person thought it was loud enough to call the police for a noise complaint.

Keep in mind also that when you use typical supersonic ammunition, the projectile will hit the target prior to the sound arriving anyways, the suppressor just reduces the noise of the actual explosion of the propellant. So at the target you still here the shot (albeit not as loud) and you still hear the sonic boom (unless you are the target heh) Yes it is harder to pinpoint from where the shot came from, that is because of the nature of a sonic boom and the sounds waves that are a result. Just like thunder. You can not really get a fix on where the thunder came from. Yes you will see the target hit before the sound reaches it. Bottom line, a suppressor is a great tool. If you keep your expectations grounded in the real world. Like I said previously all the stuff you see on TV are just that. Fiction. You can not take a .308 and make it's sound levels equal to a whisper that is just pure fantasy.
Now there are people that buy into that and try to spread it around with stories of military snipers they read on wikipedia then there are people that are gun collectors, gunsmiths and people that actually own the aforementioned equipment that actually know from hands on experience what they can and can not do.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Catalyst317
 


I think all the gadgets are great if you can afford them. Might as well get one, no telling when it might come in handy, but only if you have the disposable income for gadgets. Don't sacrifice some tried and true essential equipment for a gadget.

Now as far as them working or not working. I used to have a cheap little 22 rifle that just sounded like a normal "pop" when it was fired. You could stand right next to me and the sound of popping the top on a beer was just about as loud as firing the rifle. It would not have need suppressed, but if it were suppressed there is no way anyone but me would have heard the shot. As others have said, you don't need a silencer for your intended target, but you might want to have one for his buddies! I think it is a worthwhile gadget with some limited usefulness.



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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ok we are still at this,first off that web site "silencer research" is not a article on silencers , its just a test of 22 RF ammo for velocity and accuracy.no decible testing was done at all just some guessing .Best info is a real book on silencers. i have 26 books on suppressors in my library along with 324 general gun books,and i have read every word in all. I dont get my weapon info from Wikapedia.The story on the Vietnam sniper is a 5 page article from SAR magazine ( SAR is the official mag of the class 3 community) it was the first of a multi article series on militay use of suppressors and nightvision scopes ,past to present ,article was written by the Vietnam Veteran that was maning the XM-21.I certainally would nt go to a gunshop for an education either.Personally i dont go to gunshops ,cant remember the last time i went to one..A problem on the net are these "Gunshop Commando's"', people who go to gunshops "A lot" handling all types of guns and listening to everything told them and then go brag about it , thinking that being a frequent customer will somehow impress us,and make them smarter too. MR Commando will then go on to relate some Big Whopping Story told to him by some gunshop sales person and this person will then "buy in to" this nonsense and then spred it around as fact..latest "story " i heard was about a 30 cal suppressor(designed for .308 bullets to pass through it)mounted on a 9mm SMG ( which fires .355 diameter bullets)and then firing a 20 round burst out the back door.Man am i sure glad i had my BS detector on when i logged into this site it went off wildly when i heard that whopper of a tale.Pure nonsense!!! first shot would have destroyed suppressor and sent parts of it flying down range,second no sane gunshop owner in this day and age is going to take a silencer equipped SMG and open the back door and fire off a 20 round burst in to the nearest trash pile.not only possible fines but arrest charges also for reckless use of a firearm , and posible consification of weapon and then the ATF gets involved, again total Bull. I have been reading gun books since 1973 ,first one was Small arms of the World, i read it in one year cover to cover 4 yrs before i was able to get a drivers liscense, if i need any info it comes right out of my library, or i can call up one of the 2 class 3 dealers on my speed dial , or i just wait for the next organised Machine gun shoot that i am going to and ask the class 3 designers, manufactures, dealers and owners ,most of which reconise me ,and say high, a class 3 question. I have been going to MG shoots all over this USA,since 1979 when i first heard about Knob Creek, spent 2000$ shooting up ammo that weekend, and have been going to MG shoots evey year since logging 300,000 rounds fired so far , mostly through belt fed tripod mounted MGs,some through box magazine fed SMG's and 3000 rds or so through suppressor equiped firearms.i dont need to post questions about them .And as to the one who does'nt know the difference between a silencer,supperessor ,and a moderator(developed in that order)he can stay on the porch with his .22's and 30-30's and let us BIG DOGS RUN the firing line with our BAR's, M-14,M-60, .303 Vickers,.303 LEWIS,1917 A1,1919A2, M2-HB,MG-34,MG-42 ,7.62 GE Mini Gun,and other assorted Adult noise makers.OK enough trash talking , now about the confusion about a enemy being downrange and hearing the noise from a silencer equipped firearm, this is a simple question , but there is not a simple answer, there are too many variables, different quality of "Cans", way too many different kinds of weapons firing different kinds of ammo,the simple answer is ,maybe maybe not. it will depend mostly on the distance between the shooter and the enemy.the real truth is their is no real hard data on down range noise from suppressor equipped weapons,all we can say is really a educated guess,but in the real world it shouldnt matter as long as you make every shot count,and that is why their is no data ,the real profesional's dont care about downrange noise, they hit their target . i never said that silencer equipped weapons dont make noise, i said the downrange enemy wont hear it ,if they are far enough away,their is a difference ok?? I also agree big time with last post too many people rely too heavily on gadgets and high tech stuff, when skill at arms and practice is what will carry the day.
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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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You wrote this whole thing bragging and boasting while putting people down who are just looking for information on a topic they are not familiar with. You offered nothing to the conversation... other than filling this thread with douchebaggery.

You are so cool. I want to be just like you when you grow up! BTW...you may want to actually read the article as they are using .22 bolt actions with silencers and subsonic ammo to see which has the best sound and accuracy.
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posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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I have to agree with one of the above posters... if you have the dough for it, sure, why not, but I wouldn't consider it as a need or something to budget for.

I've seen (and heard) silencers used on a range before, by a friend, and I was utterly unimpressed. It was not like the movies at all. I'd even wager a .22 pistol without a silencer is less noisy than a .40 with one. (and to put a silencer on a .22? as another said, you'd likely then just tick the guy off....).


I can buy shot shells in .40 which fires 100 bb's to take out small rodents and snakes, which here in Texas comes in handy.


Yep, I usually see it called "snakeshot". Comes in handy on the ranch for the same reason. Like a shotgun shell for a pistol. Mine uses .38 though. Hard to hit a snake with a regular bullet.



posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


Yep, the damn things are more expensive than hydrashoks. 23 bucks for ten rounds.

I cycled 2 rounds in my glock 23 just the other night. Rattlesnakes are everywhere right now. I've heard of failure to feed with these rounds, but 2 cycled fine for me. ...Ive had hollow points ftf before, that would suck in a real life protection scenario. Like a bad dream.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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I love my .22 subsonic rounds for residential rodent control, I take out the chipmonks, without noise complaints/ unwanted visits from law enforcement. Works like a charm for rodents.
I can almost see the rounds leaving the barrel, any slower would be unaffective.
Not recommended for anti-personnel because of the lack of potential damage. Now, a magnum round out of the same weapon would be potentially lethal due to the enter but not exit of the lead. Potentially, causing severe internal damage, like a pinball ringing up points.







 
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