Religion Is Simply Something To Hide Behind

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The difference this addiction gives you eternal life, the other addictions kill you. I wouldn't call what i have for Christ an addiction but rather an obsession.

I wouldn't call it an obsession. I would call it a devotion.

reply to post by autowrench

I believe you have been asked before....can you prove the existence of Jesus Christ?

Can you prove his non existence? Actual proof ?

Many miracles and answered prayers have happened in the name of Christ, as well as other supernatural events, and to some that is enough proof.

more light a blanket to help you sleep. a real seeker doesn't have beliefs, beliefs are conclusions. you can't be a seeker if you've made a conclusion

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The difference this addiction gives you eternal life, the other addictions kill you. I wouldn't call what i have for Christ an addiction but rather an obsession.

I wouldn't call it an obsession. I would call it a devotion.

ah is it really devotion? or is it just some type of fan club? a real devotee doesn't bother himself with proof, he doesn't try to make things logical. Once you have a thinking mind, a questioning mind, or a doubting mind, you should not talk about devotion. It will lead to enormous deception. But if all you had were your assumptions and you were simple minded-childlike- then devotion would work.

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
more light a blanket to help you sleep. a real seeker doesn't have beliefs, beliefs are conclusions. you can't be a seeker if you've made a conclusion

What about the seeker, who was given a spiritual answer ?

Do they not have the right to form a conclusion ?

reply to post by biggmoneyme

ah is it really devotion? or is it just some type of fan club? a real devotee doesn't bother himself with proof, he doesn't try to make things logical. Once you have a thinking mind, a questioning mind, or a doubting mind, you should not talk about devotion. It will lead to enormous deception. But if all you had were your assumptions and you were simple minded-childlike- then devotion would work.

Oh..so the wise ones are those who only have questions , and continually ask more, never really seeking answers, because if they should find them, they would lose all that wisdom of not having proof , all that wisdom of endless questions, that they never really want answers for .

Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from , but I have enough wisdom to know than a mere mortal like you has no authority on telling me what devotion means, or why someone would have it.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by biggmoneyme

 

ah is it really devotion? or is it just some type of fan club? a real devotee doesn't bother himself with proof, he doesn't try to make things logical. Once you have a thinking mind, a questioning mind, or a doubting mind, you should not talk about devotion. It will lead to enormous deception. But if all you had were your assumptions and you were simple minded-childlike- then devotion would work.

Oh..so the wise ones are those who only have questions , and continually ask more, never really seeking answers, because if they should find them, they would lose all that wisdom of not having proof , all that wisdom of endless questions, that they never really want answers for .

Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from , but I have enough wisdom to know than a mere mortal like you has no authority on telling me what devotion means, or why someone would have it.

edit on 24-6-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

an intellectual can not be a devotee
but that isn't to say you can't use you intelligence to reach the peak of your consciousness.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by biggmoneyme

 

ah is it really devotion? or is it just some type of fan club? a real devotee doesn't bother himself with proof, he doesn't try to make things logical. Once you have a thinking mind, a questioning mind, or a doubting mind, you should not talk about devotion. It will lead to enormous deception. But if all you had were your assumptions and you were simple minded-childlike- then devotion would work.

Oh..so the wise ones are those who only have questions , and continually ask more, never really seeking answers, because if they should find them, they would lose all that wisdom of not having proof , all that wisdom of endless questions, that they never really want answers for .

Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from , but I have enough wisdom to know than a mere mortal like you has no authority on telling me what devotion means, or why someone would have it.

edit on 24-6-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

the wise one is the one whose not satisfied by the answers that he's inherited from his parents,society, or anything. and that is where you've gotten your answers no? from some book? from someone whose told you something in a flattering way? the wise man wants the experience of knowing, because until you experience something anything you talk about it amounts to lying. The whole world is lying to themselves and each other about god

reply to post by biggmoneyme

the wise one is the one whose not satisfied by the answers that he's inherited from his parents,society, or anything. and that is where you've gotten your answers no? from some book? from someone whose told you something in a flattering way? the wise man wants the experience of knowing, because until you experience something anything you talk about it amounts to lying. The whole world is lying to themselves and each other about god

What is very foolish about your answer, is all the assumptions you make.

How do you know I did not have an experience, one that made me see that there were answers to my questions?

How do you know that this has happened to others as well, who sincerely were seeking?

Perhaps , just perhaps God does answer those who sincerely seek for answers.

You try and come off as the wise one, yet you have already proved your foolishness, by not asking one sincere question on why some believe what they do.

Instead, you are filled with assumptions, and judgements.

reply to post by biggmoneyme

Dear biggmoneyme,

the wise man wants the experience of knowing, because until you experience something anything you talk about it amounts to lying.

That seems to defeat your entire argument. There are many people on ATS and in the world who have experienced "something." They know what they have found and know it to be the truth. Therefore, they are free to talk about it and attempt to explain it to others (Which, by the way, they are commanded to do anyway.) Since experience is your test, believers pass and you should, if you believed what you said, accept that.

the wise one is the one whose not satisfied by the answers that he's inherited from his parents,society, or anything. and that is where you've gotten your answers no? from some book?

I'm not sure you really meant that, it is a profoundly silly idea. Does each physicist have to discover gravity for himself? Does each mathematician have to prove that the log tables are correct before he can use them? Philosophers and scientists for centuries have been relying on information passed to them from some book. So have believers. And the believers are more reasonable. Scientists haven't experienced everything in their books, they take some on faith that the people who wrote the books are right. (Sometimes, they're not) Believers have experience, and analysis of evidence presented to them.

There is no 100% laboratory proof of many things. You weigh the evidence and decide. Have you significant evidence, that has withstood centuries of experience, to present?

reply to post by autowrench

believe you have been asked before....can you prove the existence of Jesus Christ? And before you answer, remember, this is the only fragment that the NT was taken from....

The tombs of some of his apostles have been found with his name carved into their ossuaries with crosses etched into them. Simon Peter, Lazarus, Mary, Martha, Judah buried in a cemetary outside Bethany on the Mt. of Olives. Simcha Jacobovici (Discovery Channel's Naked Archeaologist) a biblical archeaologist found the tomb he was buried in but Israeli Antiquities wouldn't let him do more than send a robot with a camera into it. So the question then becomes, why are they hiding the truth? Learn to ask the right questions and you may find the right answers.



Try telling the people he ran around with in the NT whose bones are contained in those ossuaries he never existed, i tell you as jews, they wouldn't have believed in him if they didn't see his miracles because jews require a sign or wonder to believe. So they believed him enough to carve his name and a cross into their funeral boxes.

Then there are extrabiblical accounts you would likely dismiss as well and i think i've thrown my pearls at you long enough.

Cheers.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jazzguy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I didnt come to Christ to hide from the world, I was doing that just fine beforehand with the drugs and alcohol. I'm free now because of Christ.

jumped from one addiction to another, well done lol

Hey, we all worship something or someone.

For me the worship is about the striving to exist in a higher ideals enviroment of love, harmony, egoless service to all by all and understanding and seeking the things that is hidden. Christ message is a way to greater wisdom from my point of view. I am clearly addicted to both Red Bull and the connection to something more. But yes love is clearly and extreme but natural drug.

OP you are making it very easy on yourself to not seek wisdom in the spiritual real and just ignoring it. But without it I think you will really not understand the reality that is around you. Some people who are spiritual are it not because of faith but because the have experianced things you have not yeet that prove things science do not really want to examine to much. Religon is a pointer to what is hidden behind reality. Faith is not needed when you get answer from the other side and proof is given.

I do think that a lot of people use religion as a crutch. Religion is a shield, used to protect oneself. Why should anyone deny or contest the notion? Furthermore, how does that invalidate religion in the first place?

Where does all the animosity for religion stem from? I'm not religious myself, but I don't find religion to be the problem. People are the problem.

Now how about all of the people who don't believe in religion or God at all. Isn't the denial just something else to hide behind?

~ Serra

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by biggmoneyme

 

the wise one is the one whose not satisfied by the answers that he's inherited from his parents,society, or anything. and that is where you've gotten your answers no? from some book? from someone whose told you something in a flattering way? the wise man wants the experience of knowing, because until you experience something anything you talk about it amounts to lying. The whole world is lying to themselves and each other about god

What is very foolish about your answer, is all the assumptions you make.

How do you know I did not have an experience, one that made me see that there were answers to my questions?

How do you know that this has happened to others as well, who sincerely were seeking?

Perhaps , just perhaps God does answer those who sincerely seek for answers.

You try and come off as the wise one, yet you have already proved your foolishness, by not asking one sincere question on why some believe what they do.

Instead, you are filled with assumptions, and judgements.

I would in some way say I agree with both of you. Conditioning from other people/religon can be something that limits a person to really seek the thruth behind what is. Faith can both be productive and non productive to the person seeking depending if the faith builds ego (the idea that you already know the thruth at it's highest form) instead of seeking. But the faith can also bring humility and can make the person egoless.

For me faith would have been truely counterproductive since the faiths I was taught was filled with dualities that I could not accept and still do not, and the people around me clearly did not follow at all what was preached. For me the protestant christianety I was taught was not a shelter for me that I needed but something very abnormal. It was atrifical/judgeing and not loving/happy/harmonius. Now I can go into a church and really understand the message and it fills me with happiness (the priests I meet today seem to understand their religon better from my point of view nowdays than the older ones did). But then the moments I have spent with a buddist monk are also very nice and harmonious. I do belive that Buddha and Jesus is from the exact same god/source and are just telling the message in different ways. The specifics of the system are not so important anyway since we are meant not to know it yeet.

reply to post by thisisnotaname


I know, I know. I too am appalled at all the blind faith evolutionists.
It causes all the wars and degrades the public into self serving narcissists.
Damn religionists are ruining the world.
I think they are just week individuals that aren't brave enough to rely upon their family and neighbors and friends for help when they need it and blame yah for their loneliness and strife.
Dang those religious fanatics.

Originally posted by Serraphina
I do think that a lot of people use religion as a crutch. Religion is a shield, used to protect oneself. Why should anyone deny or contest the notion? Furthermore, how does that invalidate religion in the first place?

Where does all the animosity for religion stem from? I'm not religious myself, but I don't find religion to be the problem. People are the problem.

Now how about all of the people who don't believe in religion or God at all. Isn't the denial just something else to hide behind?

~ Serra

I would say religon do create problem when it pushed hate towards the people who are different but not hurting anyone. So I do think religons should be scrutinized and questioned for their message by the ideals of logic/harmony and love. But then it might be because my theory is that all religon when understood are a message of becoming nodual and seeing thru some duality driven ideas pushed there by people who want to use divide and conqurer behaviour for their own gain or lack of wisdom. I do have a problem with some messages in the bible and qurann because of the egocorruption they build. But then I do belive that both books are a test by god to see if the people reading it can see the lies and reject them and follow the loving message instead. A perfect trap for a soul who have not grown enought to go to the next stage and still will not surrender his ego.

reply to post by thisisnotaname

Religion Is Simply Something To Hide Behind

So is devotion to anything else you can think of... sports teams, music groups, political parties, movies, celebrities, comics, or even a stance such as "there is no God" .

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by autowrench

 

Can you prove his non existence? Actual proof ?

Don't need to. The glaring LACK of evidence is clear enough for anyone. And as I said before many times, the entire NT was taken from one fragment of parchment, all things about Mithras we applied to the new saviour, the name of Julius Caesar, a story was wove by the Calpurnius Piso family of Rome, and this was all done to appease the local Christians, who were rioting in the streets of religious differences, as they still argue it to death even today.

Many miracles and answered prayers have happened in the name of Christ, as well as other supernatural events, and to some that is enough proof.

"Prayers are simply Human Will, and nothing more than that. Miracles, on the other hand, have several theories surround them.

A miracle is a phenomenon not fully explained by known laws of nature, or an act by some supernatural entity or unknown, outside force. Some scientist-theologians suggest that miracles are not violations of the laws of nature but "exploration of a new regime of physical experience".

Wiki source
The word "Miracle" comes from the Latin, (no big surprise there) and means, mirari, "to wonder." As you can clearly see, when it comes to the Christian religion and belief structure, all roads lead straight back to Rome. I have seen what I would classify as a miracle, and nothing religious was applied. I have seen Magick Spells work as good, or better than prayers, because, as I said, it is all human will power. People of like mind get together, in a church, to focus the power, while Witches raise their power in a Magick Circle. The power is raised by concious thought, focused, and released, and the power then changes the natural order of things.

David Hume (Hume 1748/2000; cf. Voltaire 1764/1901: 272) famously defined a miracle as “a violation of the laws of nature,” and this definition has been the focus of lively discussion ever since. Hume evidently means to denote something beyond mere changes in the regular course of nature, raising the bar higher for something to qualify as a miracle but also raising the potential epistemic significance of such an event if it could be authenticated.

Stanford University Source
So you see, your reasoning is completely circular but you don't realize it. Such is the effect of mind control. Your reason part is subdued due to an "infallible truth" placed at the top of your mind, in a a non-thinking loop that can never be wrong, and thus edits every part of your reality. This kind of mind can never be truly free and clear, but is quite like a prison without bars, and a Warden that is never seen.

I would say, knowing these things, the burden of proof, one way or the other, lies on the one who say Jesus is real, and lived.

The Miracles and Answered Prayers Argument

Discrepancies and Revealing Facts the Church Never Told You

The Historicity of Jesus Argument

False scientific facts in the Bible

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

Perhaps , just perhaps God does answer those who sincerely seek for answers.

What happens when the answer that comes to the "seeker" is completely contrary to the teachings in the Bible?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

Perhaps , just perhaps God does answer those who sincerely seek for answers.

What happens when the answer that comes to the "seeker" is completely contrary to the teachings in the Bible?

Then it is your right to follow that answer.

IF God is real, and He knows our hearts, He really is the only judge in the end.

If He isn't, then truth will find a way to be slowly revealed.