Marginalizing Men in society

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


For me personally what "pisses" me off and what I consider male "plight". Is a deep bond that has existed since the inception of mankind between men and women. There has always been the understanding of a mutually beneficial relationship, not based on "PC equality" but on the hard facts.

The idea has been to train people to see no difference between man or women. That this is the only way to equality. But when you live in reality there are distinct differences, and strengths, between the sexes. Its these UNIQUE attributes that each brings to the table that makes us equals. Not the homogenous blending together of male and female.

Celebrate femininity and masculinity, not Pat from SNL haha

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I can't do the research for you. I wish I could, but I've looked into this for years now and it's a growing trend. If you look at things on Tumblr like " I Need Feminism Because" and things like that it becomes very apparent.

Problem is contemporary research on the issue is stark, because it's been mostly overlooked and considered a myth by most.

All I can do is open your eyes to it being an actual thing, as most people don't believe it is and send you off to the mighty interwebs to figure it out for yourself

.

~Tenth

edit on 6/18/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

The problem i seem to be having is that all the articles linked to "prove" men are being badly done to are not objective. They are written by emotionally geared men who just seem to like having a go at feminism. For example,
"Feminism destroyed the family...Feminism is destroying a mans right to be a father... Feminism is teaching young women to not stay at home... Feminism has given women too many rights (these rights are never listed) Feminism is the reason i burnt my toast this morning"

It just sounds like someone whining constantly because they cant help themselves. It just seems to me that the "men's movement" has not taken into consideration the many changes that have effected society over the last 30 years. Such as the introduction of part time work, the decline in well paid work, drop in living standards while cost of living has rocketed, change in attitude's towards women in the workforce as a whole - They skip all of that and just start to blame feminism off the bat. Its nothing short of retarded and that's probably why i cant really take the "men's movement" seriously.

Originally posted by KnawLick
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

For me personally what "pisses" me off and what I consider male "plight". Is a deep bond that has existed since the inception of mankind between men and women. There has always been the understanding of a mutually beneficial relationship, not based on "PC equality" but on the hard facts.

Im not sure there ever was a deep bond between men and women, i suppose i believe more in individualism and how that spur's the survival of the fittest. Men and women these days are no longer looking for the same things our grandparents were. The youth want a to have a good time not get locked down into having a family and working themselves into the grave, with that being said, how then can there exist a "mutually beneficial" relationship between the sexes, unless they want the same thing?

The idea has been to train people to see no difference between man or women. That this is the only way to equality. But when you live in reality there are distinct differences, and strengths, between the sexes. Its these UNIQUE attributes that each brings to the table that makes us equals. Not the homogenous blending together of male and female.

Regardless of how you train either sex to think there will always be fundermental differences. No one is ever going to deny that a man is man and a woman is a woman, However, the roles that each gender plays in society is no longer separated - We practically work the same types of jobs. Thats nothing to do with feminism, thats a due to a change in economic needs.

Celebrate femininity and masculinity, not Pat from SNL haha

What is your definition of femininity and masculinity and how do you suppose we celebrate such things?

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Your right.... Maybe I read to many old books and just Romanticize gender roles of old.

Not really based on how man has chosen to advancing in all actuality.

reply to post by KnawLick


I get what your saying.

Truthfully, and I know I will get some heat with this, I don't mind caring for kids, having children, cooking and cleaning. I like that my husband is a provider and a protector, and cares for us. I'm not saying women shouldn't pursue intrests, or hold themselves back.

There is a longing deep inside many people to return to basics.

I went back country camping with my husband and children, on a little island state park here in the Chesapeake, it was the first time my kids have ever experienced a primative lifestyle. It was the best two days, everything was tranquil, the kids were playing with sticks and pine cones. Something about that experience, made me realize this modernized life is not satisfying.

To me male and female bonding run deep, even more deep when distractions of modern life are removed. In the end women and men should embrace eachother, everyone is fighting everyone now days, there is so much division.

reply to post by kat2684


Much more eloquent than my attempt. Couldn't agree more.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Without using any articles, only personal experience, I've seen this happening. I've just learned to cut down on my attempts at courtesy. I opened the door for a woman once going into the mall, just trying to be polite, and got one of the dirtiest looks I've ever gotten. You would have thought I had insulted her as she walked by.

Even with my other half, who appreciates my attempts, I don't do things like that much anymore. I was taught to do these things EVERY time I went out with a woman, regardless of where we went. It wasn't that women were helpless, or incapable of doing them for themselves, it was just polite. Open doors, pull out chairs, walk on the sidewalk closest to the road, that kind of thing.

The thing that grinds my gears is the why many TV commercials are portraying the man of the family as a near complete idiot. I call this character the incompetent Dad. I rather have the Three Stooges to a simple repair job than have this guy do the job. Mom just watches as the immature acting Dad screws up more than the kids.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


Haha its true. The "Homer Simpson" if you will.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


I couldn't believe the ad that Huggies put out there with the fathers watching the kids for a week. That one really got my goat big.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Without using any articles, only personal experience, I've seen this happening. I've just learned to cut down on my attempts at courtesy. I opened the door for a woman once going into the mall, just trying to be polite, and got one of the dirtiest looks I've ever gotten. You would have thought I had insulted her as she walked by.

Even with my other half, who appreciates my attempts, I don't do things like that much anymore. I was taught to do these things EVERY time I went out with a woman, regardless of where we went. It wasn't that women were helpless, or incapable of doing them for themselves, it was just polite. Open doors, pull out chairs, walk on the sidewalk closest to the road, that kind of thing.

Well all i can say is the woman that gave you a dirty look was wrong for doing so! I think its kind when ANYONE hold open a door for you or makes space on the side walk so that you can both pass each other, as you say, its a polite thing to do and shouldn't just be limited to one gender making the effort.
I hold doors open for people, i make room on the side walk, i apologise if i accidently get in someone's way, just seems like a normal thing to do.

So what im saying is dont feel bad that she gave you a dirty look, would love to see her face if you didnt hold the door for her haha

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


See, that's just it though. That's happening more and more lately. It's almost like opening a door for a woman is saying that they are too weak to do it for themselves, and I'm insulting them.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


I've seen this, and I don't like it either.

From my experience I have encountered the opposite, and the women that I'm reffering to were not mature, and sensible like the comercials portray. I'm a bit partial to males from personal experience, I have had the best relationships with male family, and no relationships with females (except my daughter). I know all people are not the same, I just don't like seeing men portrayed as abusers, losers, cheaters and idiots, because the ones I knew were wonderful (that doesn't mean they all are).

Knawlick,

Thanks for the reply, I was trying to capture what you meant. Its not easy to put in to words, but I know the feeling.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

See, that's just it though. That's happening more and more lately. It's almost like opening a door for a woman is saying that they are too weak to do it for themselves, and I'm insulting them.

I dont think its that at all. Unless these women have some seriously self esteem issues about their own strength..

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I don't know WHAT the cause really is, but that's almost what it feels like. It's like men are insulting women by trying to be polite, at least that's how it feels when it happens. And like I said it's been happening a lot more lately. Not to the extent that I get a dirty look when I open the door, but I have gotten some strange looks, like I was crazy for doing it.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Many women see helping them as a sexual advance, its quite sad.

I'm with others on here, I appreciate the kindness, and I hold open door, give up my seat to elderly too. I had handicapped man take offense for offering assistance, but thats rare, I couldn't watch him struggle.

Nice thread and good responses.
I was a boxboy in the late 60's.
At that time the womens movement was pushing forward and boxgirls started appearing in markets.
Most checkers were women.The truth of the matter was females that became box people were not held to the same standard as males, but got the same pay.
Boxboys had to lift everything , 50 lb. bags of dog food , 50 lb. bags of rock salt for water softeners.
Boxgirls could only lift 25 lb. or less.
Back in the late 60's there was no motorized cart to push or pull shopping carts.
There was no limit on how many carts a boxboy pushed.
The boxgirls limit was 6 at a time.
I never complained I just did my job.
As far as manners both my parents taught me good manners and courtecy.
I still open doors and show respect to not only women but older folks and even other men.
I do not see it as a sign of weakness but of class and respect.
I will not lower my standards for those who refuse to thank me , because it does not bother me that they lack in class and manners.
As for raising kids I was present at the birth of all 5 of my kids and was the first to hold them.
I have been sheet on pissed on and thrown up on.
I have changed a ton of diapers, bathed and dressed my kids.
I raised 4 kids under 16 when my first wife passed at 37.
Only 1 graduated with honors.
One got shot in the leg by a friend.
One took 7 tabs of '___' at once.
And theyoungest one tryed suicide 3 times because of boy troubles.
If a woman was raising 4 kids alone her job would have given her every break they could.
But as a male I got no breaks at all, if I could not be on time and at the job I got fired , no sympathy or understanding.
In the 80's the womens movement was still pushing forward.
I worked in telecom and was a lineman, women could now move into a new position and get equal pay, but again not be held to the same standard. There were limits and from what I saw many women took every advantage. Not only did they get the job and equal pay they kept their long painted nails and dangly ear rings in a heavy construction but with a wink and a coy smile they could get the guys to do their work.That never work on me.
The funniest thing though was when the sexual harassment suits started my companys first law suit was a female boss sexually harassing a male employee, and the guy won.

reply to post by Zaphod58


It's true, chivalry is a casualty in the shift of societies views. If a guy really wants to meet girls in a bar, hold the door open. Say please and thank you.

These things are so rare these days I've had women approach me solely to compliment manners...

...manners that should be universal.

I will often open and hold a door for the person behind me. I do it for everyone.
I have never had a man berate me for it.* I've received plenty of 'tongue lashings' from militant feminists - "I can get the door myself, you know!!!"
I know. I just thought I'd be nice. Thank you for your appreciation.

*That said, if anyone (and I mean ANYONE) doesn't give me acknowledgement - a smile, a nod, a 'Thank you' - which I believe to be common courtesy, I will say to them "You're very welcome." Not good manners from me, but I feel it's justified.

I will offer my seat to people with young children, heavy luggage, or to the elderly. I will no longer offer my seat to a woman simply because of gender. Too much risk of getting the militant feminist attack. It's a shame.

Please, Thank You, You're Welcome, May I help?, Allow me, Excuse me.
Simple enough, but almost lost in society today.

Lol. This thread is about how men really just want to go back to the days when they can open the door for a woman and get a big smile! Hilarious