Vagina remarks, silencing of Michigan lawmakers draws firestorm online.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Explanation: St*rred!

So the only two women [both pro-choice] who were allowed to speak ... somehow shot themselves in the foot!

Is that a case of haarp/mindcontrol OR is it just paid politicians playing hardball and losing badly/deliberately?

Personal Disclosure: Also please remember this story is 3days old and the ladies in question might not have been informed until yesterday why they were banned! That may be a contributing factor to the scrappyness of the story that has unfolded since the story broke.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Jase Bolger is the Speaker, and he's a Republican.

It would make sense as a Democrat, speaking against a republican sponsored bill in a legislative body with a Republican as the Speaker, to be respectful and act appropriately..

It's definitely politicians playing hardball - but they can only do it if justified. The actions by these two Dem representatives was justification for their silencing. I'm not saying it wasn't politically motivated, but it was NOT because they dared speak the word "vagina."

Of course understanding the reality of the situation takes all the fun/angst out of it.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
If I were a state rep and said to the floor "I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my penis, but no means no!" would that have been appropriate?

If I was trying to pass a law that you had to have a penis exam or stick something up your penis before getting a private medical procedure, then I think it would have been 100% appropriate. Same goes for your nose. Or your elbow. It's deemed "inappropriate" because of the inclusion of the word "vagina" and they wanted to punish her for her position. Simple truth: No means no. Stay out of my vagina (and all my other body parts as well).

reply to post by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
She wasn't talking in a medical context, she was accusing the floor of being interested in her lady parts.

"Lady parts"... You would have preferred she said "Lady parts"?

Why can't people see this for what it is really about ?
The majority of one political party is supressing the other by any means possible.
Any word can have a a different interpetation, the whole context of a sentence can also have a different interpetation. Are we that immmature that we must be told how to interpet what a congress person is saying on the congresstional floor ? Or is the statement relative to the issue, under discussion ?
I can think of several other words that could have been substituted for vagina, and those would have distracted from the message.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
If I were a state rep and said to the floor "I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my penis, but no means no!" would that have been appropriate?

If I was trying to pass a law that you had to have a penis exam or stick something up your penis before getting a private medical procedure, then I think it would have been 100% appropriate. Same goes for your nose. Or your elbow. It's deemed "inappropriate" because of the inclusion of the word "vagina" and they wanted to punish her for her position. Simple truth: No means no. Stay out of my vagina (and all my other body parts as well).

reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
She wasn't talking in a medical context, she was accusing the floor of being interested in her lady parts.

"Lady parts"... You would have preferred she said "Lady parts"?

edit on 6/18/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

No, that was my choice of words. Had nothing to do with the disrespectful statements made by Representative Brown. Why is your mind stuck on the terminology when that is NOT what this speaking ban was about? You seem like the type of person who is easily distracted by shiny things.

The inclusion of the word "vagina" was not the problem, but rather what Rep. Brown was ACCUSING the legislative body of in regards to HER VAGINA. Not a vagina in general, not a discussion of the human anatomy or a medical procedure.. She could just as easily have said "the female body" in place of "vagina" but she chose her words in an attempt to insinuate that the legislature was after HER VAGINA.

You just let them tell you what to think, don't you? This representative was dramatically calling attention to parts of her anatomy that should NOT BE DISCUSSED on the legislative floor. At least not in this context. State reps aren't paid to talk about their genitals, and that's what Brown was doing. She was using sarcasm and hyperbole to talk about HER VAGINA. Again, she was not discussing a medical procedure. She was accusing the supporters of the bill in being interested in HER VAGINA directly.

Not vaginas in general, you see. Again, in case you missed both the OBVIOUS and my statement calling THE OBVIOUS into light - the word "vagina" was used hundreds or even thousands of times during this ABORTION RIGHTS conversation. It wasn't the word VAGINA that caused a problem with the Speaker, it was the grossly inappropriate and exaggerated context in which it was used.

I'm not sure why I have to explain this 10 times in the same thread.. Why do you keep trying to assert that the dreaded republicans are trying to censor the female body? They're not doing that at all. Many politicians spoke about abortion procedures and of course used the appropriate terminology. If what you claim is true, then WHY DIDNT THEY ALL GET BANNED FROM SPEAKING?

It's one thing to discuss human anatomy - it's another to accuse a group of being interested in your genitals. Do you see the difference or does that need a detailed explanation too?

Gah, the idiocy of the pro-rights people almost makes me want to egg an abortion clinic.

I understand your view, but is it not selective intrpetation ?
Is not vagina relative to both topics of abortion and contraception, what is the object of topic we are discussing ?
Just because you find the word funny or disgusting does not make the discussion wrong or make the issue disappear.The word is relative to the discussion.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Because she shouted from the floor in support of a joke-bill she was pushing that would require men to go through a whole bunch of garbage to get a vasectomy.

And I know this thread isn't about abortion, but I have to point out that a vasectomy prevents a pregnancy in the first place, while abortion kills a living being that has already been conceived.

tHaus out. =P

It would be more effective if the bill wasn't about vasectomy, but was instead about mandatory STD testing for men who want a prescription for Viagra. You know, the painful and invasive type of test in which they stick a swab down your penis. Because passing an STD to the fetus would be endangerment. I'm sure no man would object to that, right? It's all for the sake of the fetus, and it's not like we're implying the man has been a slut and slept around behind his wife's back, or anything.

Otherwise, your argument is all wet. Representatives have gotten into brawls on the floor and not been banned. This is all outrageous political strategy and saying otherwise is ridiculous.

VAGINA

No, that was my choice of words. Had nothing to do with the disrespectful statements made by Representative Brown. Why is your mind stuck on the terminology when that is NOT what this speaking ban was about? You seem like the type of person who is easily distracted by shiny things.

The inclusion of the word "vagina" was not the problem, but rather what Rep. Brown was ACCUSING the legislative body of in regards to HER VAGINA. Not a vagina in general, not a discussion of the human anatomy or a medical procedure.. She could just as easily have said "the female body" in place of "vagina" but she chose her words in an attempt to insinuate that the legislature was after HER VAGINA.

You just let them tell you what to think, don't you? This representative was dramatically calling attention to parts of her anatomy that should NOT BE DISCUSSED on the legislative floor. At least not in this context. State reps aren't paid to talk about their genitals, and that's what Brown was doing. She was using sarcasm and hyperbole to talk about HER VAGINA. Again, she was not discussing a medical procedure. She was accusing the supporters of the bill in being interested in HER VAGINA directly.

Not vaginas in general, you see. Again, in case you missed both the OBVIOUS and my statement calling THE OBVIOUS into light - the word "vagina" was used hundreds or even thousands of times during this ABORTION RIGHTS conversation. It wasn't the word VAGINA that caused a problem with the Speaker, it was the grossly inappropriate and exaggerated context in which it was used.

I'm not sure why I have to explain this 10 times in the same thread.. Why do you keep trying to assert that the dreaded republicans are trying to censor the female body? They're not doing that at all. Many politicians spoke about abortion procedures and of course used the appropriate terminology. If what you claim is true, then WHY DIDNT THEY ALL GET BANNED FROM SPEAKING?

It's one thing to discuss human anatomy - it's another to accuse a group of being interested in your genitals. Do you see the difference or does that need a detailed explanation too?

Gah, the idiocy of the pro-rights people almost makes me want to egg an abortion clinic.

edit on 18-6-2012 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

My goodness you are splitting hairs.

reply to post by sheba2011


I'm splitting hairs? Please, elaborate.

You guys are getting your panties in a twist over terminology, when this wasn't about using appropriate terminology. There is a political issue here, and a political show of force, but it's not because the word "vagina" was used. I really can't tell if you people are being intentionally misleading or if you all just don't understand it yourselves.

Because you obviously KNOW of a time that a "brawl has broken out" in the Michigan State Legislature, and no one was removed, can you please cite your references?

Methinks thou dost maketh crap up.

Here is a link about a fist-fight in Michigan, and the participants seemed to get a similar punishment as Representatives Brown and Byrum, a "time-out."

And remember, that they were banned from speaking at the next session.. After a vote had already passed on the Abortion Rights bill.

You pro-choice folks are getting emotional and grasping at straws. This wasn't an abortion or female anatomy issue, this was an issue of manners and decorum in the Michigan State Legislature. I know you want fuel for your pro-life torch, but this isn't it.

Really though, how am I splitting hairs?

So the only 2 women even allowed to speak against legislating women's vaginas, uses the word vagina on the floor and are then banned without explanation for 3 days? And, as it turns out, it's because they said Vagina in a discussion on womens body rights while trying to make a point?

I sure hope every woman in Michigan starts talking about vaginas real quick. The way the USA is going these days, we will be living in the year "1984" very soon.

Replace "vagina" with any other body part and then understand how ridiculous this is.

This was not about the word, that was the excuse for new controls being legislated, and the regular people of the USA will be the ones to suffer, you'll see, give it a little more time and the results will be very clear.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by sheba2011

 

I'm splitting hairs? Please, elaborate.

You guys are getting your panties in a twist over terminology, when this wasn't about using appropriate terminology. There is a political issue here, and a political show of force, but it's not because the word "vagina" was used. I really can't tell if you people are being intentionally misleading or if you all just don't understand it yourselves.

Because you obviously KNOW of a time that a "brawl has broken out" in the Michigan State Legislature, and no one was removed, can you please cite your references?

Methinks thou dost maketh crap up.

Here is a link about a fist-fight in Michigan, and the participants seemed to get a similar punishment as Representatives Brown and Byrum, a "time-out."

And remember, that they were banned from speaking at the next session.. After a vote had already passed on the Abortion Rights bill.

You pro-choice folks are getting emotional and grasping at straws. This wasn't an abortion or female anatomy issue, this was an issue of manners and decorum in the Michigan State Legislature. I know you want fuel for your pro-life torch, but this isn't it.

Really though, how am I splitting hairs?

edit on 18-6-2012 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

Here's how you are splitting hairs:

"The inclusion of the word "vagina" was not the problem, but rather what Rep. Brown was ACCUSING the legislative body of in regards to HER VAGINA."

... since she is a citizen of Michigan, should the law pass, it very much would apply to HER vagina.

Again, I see your point of view. And again if women had no sexual organs, ie. vagina, there would be no need for a discussion on abortion and contraception and no need for bills on said issues.
Truely you can not see the forest for the trees.

It wasn't for saying vagina.
An email to the press corp has surfaced explaining it was because they were all upity, and wouldn't know their place.
(Meh can't find it anymore)
Anyway: They were both propably having a visit, if you know what I mean.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


It absolutely would be appropriate to say if the government was trying to regulate what a man can do with his penis, but we all know such a thing would never ever happen.

Are those two Legislators affected by the debates on what women can do with their vagina's? Yes they are as they are residents of Michigan, so saying "my vagina" is warranted. The only manner in which a law maker should be questioned or punished upon using a medical term for genitals is if they do so in a pornographic way. Neither of these women did.

Vagina

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

It absolutely would be appropriate to say if the government was trying to regulate what a man can do with his penis, but we all know such a thing would never ever happen.

Are those two Legislators affected by the debates on what women can do with their vagina's? Yes they are as they are residents of Michigan, so saying "my vagina" is warranted. The only manner in which a law maker should be questioned or punished upon using a medical term for genitals is if they do so in a pornographic way. Neither of these women did.

Vagina

Actually, she said "I'm flattered you're all so interested in my vagina. But no means no," which is obviously meant to be sexual innuendo.

Additionally, I don't think many of those here have actually viewed the session, where the representative was hostile and combative.

The word "vagina" was not the problem, I don't know why you are all focusing on that word. The word "vagina" was used repeatedly during the session.

Any accusation that the word "vagina" was the reason for the temporary ban is comical. Anyway, the truth is blatant in this case - the problem is the "progressive" sources you guys read are all trying to frame this story the same way, based on a comment representative Brown made shortly after the event.

So Brown is getting the publicity she wants, but the bill has already passed. This isn't even that bad of a bill, either.. It just enforces some pretty standard moral prerequisites for pulling that helpless little fetus out and terminating it's life.

She's a politician being political, trying to rally up the pro-life dogs of war, using this bill as a platform to gain political power.

A couple little girls threw a tantrum and got put in a corner. That's what happened here. The word "vagina" was not the problem. If this was a case where Rep Brown truly was punished for using a scientific term, I would be the FIRST to get angry about it.. But this is not the case. This representative was offensive, crude, and immature. She was disrespectful to every member of the Legislature and she got a tiny slap on the wrist. Stop trying to make this story something it isn't, we have the media for that.

"'What she said was offensive," said Rep. Mike Callton, R-Nashville. 'It was so offensive, I don't even want to say it in front of women. I would not say that in mixed company.' "Majority Floor Leader Jim Stamas, R-Midland, determined Brown's comments violated the decorum of the House, said Ari Adler, spokesman for the Republican majority."

From www.npr.org...

Had she used the 4-letter word that starts with "C," that would have been offensive. But vagina? Really??

She could have said: uterus, labia, vulva, ovaries, clitoris, penis, vas deferens, scrotum, testicles... all of those are not offensive -- they are medically correct terms for body parts.

If you want to take the full sentence, rather than the single word, I still find nothing offensive:

I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but 'no' means 'no.'"

As previously pointed out, if the bill became law, as a citizen of Michigan, Rep Brown's vagina would become subject to it, so her statement is quite accurate here. There is nothing to be offended about the truth. Those who want to pass this law ARE interested in HER vagina -- and every reproductive-aged vagina in the state.

If you want to argue that the republicans are merely interested in protecting a life, and not interested in anyone's vagina, you have no hunt in that game either. Because you cannot protect the unborn life without getting overly interested in the mother's vagina, ovaries, uterus.

Which was Rep Brown's point.

That the republicans got offended... that should be a clue that they are doing something wrong.

Anyway: They were both propably having a visit, if you know what I mean.

Now THAT is offensive.

But I still chuckled.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Yes tinkerhouse.
You propably don't get to hear those that often in forced-birth circles, but it's fairly standard fare outside of it.
There is a T-Shirt "If I wanted government in my vagina, I'd F. a senator"
There is also a picture of an ultrasound wand. on the side it reads "If you can read this your government is too close"

It's innuendo
It's funny.
It drives the point home rather powerfully (as humor often does)

Sidenote: one of the provisions in the bill forces women to carry to term a baby that is found to be not viable after 21 weeks.
In my book that is plain and simple torture.

Originally posted by narwahl
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Yes tinkerhouse.
You propably don't get to hear those that often in forced-birth circles, but it's fairly standard fare outside of it.
There is a T-Shirt "If I wanted government in my vagina, I'd F. a senator"
There is also a picture of an ultrasound wand. on the side it reads "If you can read this your government is too close"

It's innuendo
It's funny.
It drives the point home rather powerfully (as humor often does)

Sidenote: one of the provisions in the bill forces women to carry to term a baby that is found to be not viable after 21 weeks.
In my book that is plain and simple torture.

Thank you for admitting that it was intentional innuendo, Representative Brown was insinuating that the Legislature wanted personal access to her vagina. She was being dramatic and disrespectful.

Sexual innuendo has no place in a legislative body. If someone was wearing one of those t-shirts in session they would have been thrown out.

The word "VAGINA" is not the problem here - it's the act Representative Brown attempted to project on the Legislature with her statement.

"forced-birth circles?"

LOL, first off.. I was pretty clear on my personal beliefs. Maybe you didn't read that part.

Secondly, "forced-birth?" I am pro-choice and this is just inflammatory verbage.. No one forces ANYONE to go and get pregnant in the USA. The "forced-birth circle" you are referring to must be made up of irresponsible breeders with no regard for their own or their children's futures.

That made me laugh, hilarious!

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by narwahl
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Yes tinkerhouse.
You propably don't get to hear those that often in forced-birth circles, but it's fairly standard fare outside of it.
There is a T-Shirt "If I wanted government in my vagina, I'd F. a senator"
There is also a picture of an ultrasound wand. on the side it reads "If you can read this your government is too close"

It's innuendo
It's funny.
It drives the point home rather powerfully (as humor often does)

Sidenote: one of the provisions in the bill forces women to carry to term a baby that is found to be not viable after 21 weeks.
In my book that is plain and simple torture.

Thank you for admitting that it was intentional innuendo, Representative Brown was insinuating that the Legislature wanted personal access to her vagina. She was being dramatic and disrespectful.

Sexual innuendo has no place in a legislative body. If someone was wearing one of those t-shirts in session they would have been thrown out.

The word "VAGINA" is not the problem here - it's the act Representative Brown attempted to project on the Legislature with her statement.

Let's be perfectly clear here, shall we?

It wasn't sexual innuendo in the "wink wink, nudge nudge" way. It was sexual innuendo in that Rep Brown implied that the Republicans wanted to, essentially, rape her. That's why she added "no means no."

Yes she was being dramatic -- I would have been too. How else do we get our point across? THIS IS A DRAMATIC ISSUE. Forcing a woman to do something she does not want to do with her body IS rape.

Was she being disrespectful? No more disrespectful than those that passed this disrespectful law.