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Vagina remarks, silencing of Michigan lawmakers draws firestorm online.

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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...

mean I would ban others from doing it.

But there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed. When you can see a fetus move, watch it respond to your voice, see it's heartbeat and feel it kick.. Is it really ok to kill that being? This bill doesn't ban abortion, but rather provides an outline for when it's appropriate and how it will be conducted. It does more to secure the safety of the mother than the fetus growing inside her.

You are telling me it's a black and white argument, and it's not.

Yes, I believe people should make their own choices, and am therefor pro-choice. It doesn't mean I have to agree with those decisions.

I am SO pro choice, in fact, that if you make choices that end up with you being pregnant, I believe you should LIVE WITH THAT CHOICE. If your idea of "living with it" means aborting your child, then you can live with that too.

Pro-choice doesn't have to mean foaming at the mouth, fighting blindly for women's right to abort their pregnancy at any time, through any means.. Your attempts to frame it as such are disconcerting.




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by windword
When I saw this on the news, I wanted to stand up and applaud this lady. I think it's funny how all these stuffed shirts got offended by her lewdity!

This is really going to blow up in their faces though.


Now, more than 2,800 people say they plan to attend a protest at the Capitol tonight, with many of those taking to a Facebook page created for the event to share their plans.

One man posted a picture of cupcakes decorated like vaginas he said he plans to bring, while a woman suggested showing up wearing tampon jewelry to the play, "The Vagina Monologues," which will be performed on the steps of the Capitol at 6 p.m.

"Bring signs, bring your vagina, bring your outrage, bring your humor," said the play's author, Eve Ensler.


These people are fools. This isn't a "war against women." That term was coined to raise support for the so called "progressive" movements in Michigan during an election year.

It's so funny how horribly misguided these people are. They are not furthering their cause for "women's rights" or the right to choose abortion. They are just making the entire movement look like a bunch of clowns.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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I have to respond in chunks due to word count. I'm going to edit too-- I hope you don't mind. It's not intended to take your words out of context. I just need the word count for my response.


Originally posted by TinkerHaus
but a lot of people habitually get abortions. I know some of them.


Right; I do too. They are rare, but yes, they exist. Rep Brown was also making the point that some of us have different moral beliefs. I agree with her on that. There are some who have no moral objection to abortion-as-birth-control -- within the first trimester. You might not like that practice, I may not like that practice either. But if you are going to make first-term abortions available then you can't dictate how many abortions or why.



Yeah, it's great people can choose abortion. I wasn't saying abortions should be forced, what I was saying is that the vast majority of abortions come because of irresponsible sexual habits, not because of a health concern. Are you misunderstanding on purpose, to fool those with poor comprehension skills who may be reading this? Or did you just not understand?


I was using sarcasm.

The vast majority of abortions happen because we have warped values and beliefs when it comes to sex education, we tell teens to practice abstinence, and we make it difficult to afford and purchase b.c. Then there is the greater issue of a deeply engrained cultural message that tells young women it's NOT "their body, their choice." So they cannot say "no" when a man makes advances. I think you will agree with me that Choice starts with who you choose to share your body with? Well, that is one of the big reasons I am pro-choice; my daughters need to know I don't just give this lip service... it also applies to their choice should they get pregnant. If I allow the government power over their bodies once pregnant, why should my daughters feel they have power over their bodies when they are not pregnant?




Why is it ok to abort a third-term fetus but not a 2 month old? They aren't that much different..


It's currently NOT okay to abort a third-term fetus, except when the mother's life is in danger -- and you already agreed that was reasonable and okay with you. Why are you backtracking now?

The bill is saying it will REMOVE that exception. What's more, women with dead fetuses will be forced to carry them to term. DEAD fetuses. If this is about the life of the fetus, why is that bit in the bill? That makes no sense whatsover now, does it? The fetus is already DEAD.

Please consider it is in the bill, because the bill has nothing at all to do with Life, fetuses, and babies.



Women breed. Females breed. When two humans have intercourse that results in a pregnancy, that is breeding. I'm sorry that you are offended by scientific terminology. Interesting that the premise of this thread and the position that most have taken is that this Michigan Representative was censured for using the appropriate terminology for the female reproductive organ, yet when I use a scientific term for reproduction you chastise me. Hilarious!


Don't be so disingenuous; the child-free people often use the term "breeder" as an insult. I have a feeling you very well know this, which is why you chose the word.




Did I accuse you of being a party girl?


Yes, you did, by inference. You essentially said anyone -- including your mom, your sister, your grandmother, your wife, your daughter -- who may have had an abortion is a "party girl."

I can guarantee, with your attitude, no woman in your life would ever reveal the truth to you. You'd be very surprised at who's had abortions, and why.



No, you projected that onto yourself. Despite common misconception, there are plenty of options for birth control for women over 40.
This is the irresponsible and uninformed breeding I mentioned earlier. Thanks for giving us a real world example. If you don't believe me Google it, or call your doctor.


Not for me. I don't wish to air my personal health details and history, but it's the truth and my doctor would tell you the same. I have had sorry luck in that department.



My advice to you is don't "accidentally" get pregnant.


That was, in fact, my doctor's advice as well. We are using condoms and crossing our fingers we don't have a failure with them, as you know they are not 100% foolproof. The alternative is no sex at all for the next 15 years. Would you be okay with that? Do you realistically think you could go 15 years? Do you think it would be healthy for your marriage and your physical, emotional and mental health?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Because she shouted from the floor in support of a joke-bill she was pushing that would require men to go through a whole bunch of garbage to get a vasectomy.

And I know this thread isn't about abortion, but I have to point out that a vasectomy prevents a pregnancy in the first place, while abortion kills a living being that has already been conceived.

tHaus out. =P


And sometimes abortions saves lives.
Do vasectomies ever do that?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by sheba2011
 




I was using sarcasm.

The vast majority of abortions happen because we have warped values and beliefs when it comes to sex education, we tell teens to practice abstinence, and we make it difficult to afford and purchase b.c. Then there is the greater issue of a deeply engrained cultural message that tells young women it's NOT "their body, their choice." So they cannot say "no" when a man makes advances. I think you will agree with me that Choice starts with who you choose to share your body with? Well, that is one of the big reasons I am pro-choice; my daughters need to know I don't just give this lip service... it also applies to their choice should they get pregnant. If I allow the government power over their bodies once pregnant, why should my daughters feel they have power over their bodies when they are not pregnant?


This is the problem with the abortion debate - people want to claim it's dominance over a woman's body when it's not. The real argument is when should a fetus be considered a human life. I don't see why your daughter couldn't be pro-life and still feel that she has control of her body. It's actually very sad if this is the view of the pro-choice crowd, that once they allow regulation to abortion they are basically giving away all rights to their bodies.

I personally do not see or make this connection.



It's currently NOT okay to abort a third-term fetus, except when the mother's life is in danger -- and you already agreed that was reasonable and okay with you. Why are you backtracking now?

The bill is saying it will REMOVE that exception. What's more, women with dead fetuses will be forced to carry them to term. DEAD fetuses. If this is about the life of the fetus, why is that bit in the bill? That makes no sense whatsover now, does it? The fetus is already DEAD.


There are three parts to this bill.. And they could still be amended before being signed into law, even AFTER passing the House. It's called the Legislative Process. I agree that this part of this bill is faulty. This is not the same bill that passed the Michigan House.



Don't be so disingenuous; the child-free people often use the term "breeder" as an insult. I have a feeling you very well know this, which is why you chose the word.


No. I was using the term as it was intended to be used, and not as an insult. I have two children who mean the world to me. Having children changed so much of my outlook on the world. I was simply inferring that people who practice unsafe, uninformed, reckless sexual habits make up the bulk of people who seek out abortions.



Yes, you did, by inference. You essentially said anyone -- including your mom, your sister, your grandmother, your wife, your daughter -- who may have had an abortion is a "party girl."

I can guarantee, with your attitude, no woman in your life would ever reveal the truth to you. You'd be very surprised at who's had abortions, and why.


It was not my intent to project this onto you, or my mother, or my wife. I was again referring to people who practice reckless sexual habits.

I should mention that I am by no means a prude, quite the opposite in fact. But I have always practiced safe sex. You might be surprised how many women have revealed this and more to me. My opinion on abortion is not the entirety of who I am. I find it offensive that you would try to assert that all women feel the same as you, because I can assure you they do not.

Above all things I champion personal freedom and responsibility. I see these bills as mostly law to regulate clinics. If abortion clinics cannot offer a transparent, clean, and law abiding servicing they shouldn't be in business. If these clinics go under and create a gap in service, new clinics will arise to meet the demand.

Despite what you may be gathering from this thread, most of my good friends are and always have been women. I am not some insensitive macho d-bag, or whatever your idea of me is. I don't like the typical, mindless male.. And I'm not one. =]



That was, in fact, my doctor's advice as well. We are using condoms and crossing our fingers we don't have a failure with them, as you know they are not 100% foolproof. The alternative is no sex at all for the next 15 years. Would you be okay with that? Do you realistically think you could go 15 years? Do you think it would be healthy for your marriage and your physical, emotional and mental health?


No, I wouldn't be ok with that. I am a sexual creature by nature.. I actually plan on getting 'fixed' myself to avoid this problem in the future. If you are married, and plan on having the same sexual partner for 15 years, maybe you should bring this up with him? It takes two to make a baby.


Back to the topic at hand: Vagina isn't necessarily a bad word.. But it can be interpreted as such depending on the context of your message. The moral of the story is this: If you are going to make a statement at a political event, legislative session, or even in HS debate class - have some class and don't treat the legislative authority like crap. =]
edit on 18-6-2012 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Michigan is now pretty much recognized as a Republican dictatorship.

From what I can gather, they have removed women from the debate by using a loophole over language. They've used the excuse of the use of the word vagina to have these people removed and their right to address and discuss an issue that directly affects them revoked.

Basically, people they want to silence have been removed from the discussion and debate because they used a medical term, it's an excuse to silence them and nothing more.

This is another example of how the Republican dictatorship in Michigan is using every method they can find to silence, censor and effectively shut down ANY AND ALL OPPOSITION.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Once, when I worked in an office, a lady (?) said to me she needed to go and "shake her lettuce"

took me a moment to figure out what she was on about .... brought a



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by TinkerHaus
 





I was simply inferring that people who practice unsafe, uninformed, reckless sexual habits make up the bulk of people who seek out abortions.


I think that you will find that the women who are having abortions are your friends' sisters, mothers, aunts, teachers, and daughters. People don't broadcast their procedures, they aren't wearing a sign on their back or a tattoo proclaiming their abortion.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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What's this, feminists lying and acting as spoiled brats again? Colour me surprised... not. Feminism is a mental illness, the sooner we let it die, the better. Don't get me started on "abortion rights".



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by TinkerHaus
 





I was simply inferring that people who practice unsafe, uninformed, reckless sexual habits make up the bulk of people who seek out abortions.


I think that you will find that the women who are having abortions are your friends' sisters, mothers, aunts, teachers, and daughters. People don't broadcast their procedures, they aren't wearing a sign on their back or a tattoo proclaiming their abortion.



Sure, yeah. I know a few women who've had abortions.. I'm not talking about who these women are - I'm merely stating the fact that most abortions are due to irresponsible behavior, and not a health concern for mother or child. If you have evidence to the contrary please share.

I even know a girl who's had multiple abortions, and now cannot have a child (my best friend's wife). She literally went through all of my group of friends (not me!) before marrying one of them. The guy she married works in the adult film industry - he's not an actor. So I know quite a few women who've had abortions and aren't shy to talk about it. None of the women I know who've had abortions did so for health reasons... They did so to fix a "mistake."

So please understand that I am basing my opinion on people I've known and continue to know, what I've seen happen to them and how things have turned out for them. The funny thing, my friend's wife totally agrees with me now about abortion, and feels that she made horrible decisions and is now suffering the consequences of her actions.

As for me, I wanted kids.

I guess my posts on this topic make me come off as a prude.. If you only knew. =P



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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I think I can some it up with the catch phrase I heard on a Summer's Eve commercial this weekend- Hail To The V!!



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Sure, yeah. I know a few women who've had abortions.. I'm not talking about who these women are - I'm merely stating the fact that most abortions are due to irresponsible behavior, and not a health concern for mother or child. If you have evidence to the contrary please share.



You can't make a false statement then ask someone else to prove that it's not false. That's a logical fallacy.


The fact of the matter is no one knows why the majority of abortions occur because it's a private matter. Your own perceptions of morality have absolutely no bearing on any women's bodies.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
Shall we call this the censored response...withholding of the VAGINA



Update: Michigan Dem calls on women to withhold sex until legislature backs down

In comments ahead of Wednesday’s vote on restricting female reproductive rights, Michigan State Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D), of Detroit, called on the women of her state to withhold sex from their partners until the legislature backs down.

“We’re launching a war on women,” she said. “Stop having sex with us, gentlemen, and I ask women to boycott men until they stop moving this through the House.”


You want to control what goes on in our house from your House? It may be a long dry summer there lads.

Good luck with that one guys. Ha.

*crosses legs and leans back to sip coffee* A truer employment of "boy"cott could never be found.



Source


The only thing I like about feminists is they have a vagina and those things can be fun.
Someone should remind her what the oldest profession in the world is and she can cross her legs any time she wants to hand back her Credit card and have her shoe allowance spent on more enjoyable pass times.

This is typical of their crap try to distort the facts to make them look oppressed and then respond with using their vagina to manipulate men to do what they want.
Close those legs till you get what you want honey. Have the guy at work who glanced at your cleavage reprimanded then go out and undoo your top buttons in hopes of catching a guys attention so he will change your flat tire.

I'm pro choice but the one that is really silenced here is the baby depending on termination time I'm sure it would like a say, the other person who is silenced is the farther.
I want another bill passed if a man doesn't get a say in the termination or lack of then he is not responsible for child support. These women want to have their cake and eat it too, sure it's my body & I'll do what I want with it until I expect you to pay for it then it took 2 to tango.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Because she shouted from the floor in support of a joke-bill she was pushing that would require men to go through a whole bunch of garbage to get a vasectomy.

And I know this thread isn't about abortion, but I have to point out that a vasectomy prevents a pregnancy in the first place, while abortion kills a living being that has already been conceived.

tHaus out. =P


Here is another shinning example, but I'm sure the fems won't mention that part.
stay out of my vagina while I control your penis, on a personal note I was denied a vasectomy by 2 clinics because i refused to have my wife interviewed and consulted before hand. We discussed it at home as we would have an abortion if it came up but thats none of their buisness.
Pissed me off that much the 3rd place I rang I recorded the call & again got a feminist from the planed parenting clinic, I told her it was my body and I don't have to request a woman's permission or consultation to do what I want with it.
She told me she pitied my wife being married to such a chauvinist pig, then I asked if she requested the presence of the sperm donor before she would perform an abortion to which she replied with how a woman's body belong to no 1 but her and how dare I etc & hung up on me. I drove down there told her what was up and had her issued with a written warning stupid feminists think they rule the world cause they have a vag.
4 place was a nice professioanl woman who understood my point and book me in no problems as long as over 25 & sane of mind.

Freedom of speech, equality of the sexes, racial equality all seem to have 1 thing in common it never works both ways and if you are white middle class male your screwed and not in the good vagina way either.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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HA HA HA HA

deflect and deception .....



I think everyone here is missing one HUGE point. If you listen to her speech before she talks about how abortion is not even a question in her JEWISH faith! I think that the Christian righties who claim to come the jewish root that "abortion is not an issue" are upset and this "vagina" remark is nothing more than an attempt to focus on these remarks vs her religious remarks.

I watched this several days ago .. so, I'll watch it again to refesh my memory....



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by sheba2011
 


So Sheba2011 wants to have sex eventhough the result
might be a chromosomial defective fetus that she
wants to abort.

Can we feel Sheba2011's "Sophie's Decision?"
Such remorse; not.

Sheba2011 want to have sex and if it results in a
chromosomial defective fetus then she wants to
maintain the right to abort it.

Should her only birth control fail she reserves
the right to abort the result. OK.

Is this what a responsible person would do?
Would a responsible person risk harming another
through their their action? Would a responsible
person risk pregancy and destroy it?

Apperntly so.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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Id say the womens biggest thing to worry about are the women who are pro life....... other then that......... all women who are pro choice........ simply do not listen/ let these people make rules about what you can and cannot do with your body,,,, band together ,, and laugh in their faces,,,,, it is ridiculous and funny,,,,,

tell them you want to have police in every male home making sure men do not masturbate...
edit on 18-6-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by sheba2011
 


So Sheba2011 wants to have sex eventhough the result
might be a chromosomial defective fetus that she
wants to abort.

Can we feel Sheba2011's "Sophie's Decision?"
Such remorse; not.

Sheba2011 want to have sex and if it results in a
chromosomial defective fetus then she wants to
maintain the right to abort it.

Should her only birth control fail she reserves
the right to abort the result. OK.

Is this what a responsible person would do?
Would a responsible person risk harming another
through their their action? Would a responsible
person risk pregancy and destroy it?

Apperntly so.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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This whole thing can be fixed. Girls from now on, if you want to have a baby, use medical technology instead of men. I know this is a short post but, the answer is simple.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 

What would i suggest you do?
Move immediately to England or France where women are equal to men.



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