Why I Doubt the Official "Story"

Originally posted by plube
reply to post by Reheat

 

this is replying to your idea that someone is off topic here...the topic is about doubts....not anything...not about evidence base so you have doubts about people choosing not to believe the OS....kinda strange as people are allowed to have doubts about say ummm..GOD.
Oh right GOD has to exist because others say it is so....So the Officail story has to be correct because others say so....I am so glad people do not just tend to belive blindly...because that would be like blindly believing in god.

So what are you saying, that we need to turn around and blindly believe Alex Jones, Dylan Avery, and Judy Wood simply because they're saying different things from what the 9/11 commission report says? In that case why not just insist the towers were brought down by evil leprechauns? After all, the 9/11 commission doesn't agree with that theory either.

What gets me is that one by one all the "evidence" the conspiracy presents to back their claims up always turns out to be spurious- "no interceptors were scrambled, no wreckage was found at the Pentagon, all the bomb dogs were withdrawn from the WTC, thermite was found in the WTC dust, etc etc etc. The conspiracy theorists response is always the same- the gov't has near-supernatural powers and it can do anything if they throw enough money and sinister secret agents at it. How the heck is that any different from "God is omnipotent and can do anything"?

To use your analogy of religion, I'll agree the whole idea that humans were made by magic out of a clod of dirt by an invisible guy living up in the clouds wasn't particularly well thought out, but the fact doesn't give you license to turn around and insist on the equally ill-thought-out idea that all of mankind's problems are being caused by the ghosts of space aliens murdered by Xenu the galactic warlord simply because it's a different theory.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by UltimateSkeptic1
Here's why I doubt the official story.

The OS is simple. A small group of men made it through the entire U.S. air defense and attacked major landmarks.

In response, the U.S. launched two major wars.

The two major wars would not prevent another small group of men from performing another similar terrorist attack.

There is a logic fallacy somewhere.

9/11 happened through pure U.S. incompetence. Something just doesn't seem right about the whole OS.

I don't get your point. First you acknowledge the 9/11 attack succeeded for no other reason than incompetence and then you turn around and say "something doesn't sound right." What the heck ever sounds right with incompetence?

This is why I doubt these conspiracy stories- their proponents are literally stating that a C+ average student who couldn't even hand out bottles of water to hurricane survivors in New Orleans without slipping on banana peels pulled off the most insanely intricate and complex conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the sheer perfection of a supernatural act, all without leaving so much as a microbe of tangible evidence behind or anyone comign forward to spill the beans. I'll agree the attack succeeded because of incompetence, but logically if there's conspiracy of coverups it's pretty obvious what they're covering up- more incompetence. Seriously, if some bureaucrat drone with a cushy government job he got from his senator uncle discovered a warning of an immminent attack on 9/11 lying forgotten beneath a greasy pizza box in the corner of his office, do you think he's going to come forward and say SORRY 3000 PEEOPLE WERE KILLED BECAUSE I'M A SLOB or is he going to shred the document and pretend it never existed?

Bush couldn't pull off any of these goofball conspiracy claims even if he wanted to.

Of course Bush couldn't concoct this on his own. No one is saying that. If they're covering up all incompetence then how is that any better than covering up compliance? No one has suffered the consequences of 3,000 innocent deaths and if you say the death of Osama was justice being served then all I can do is shake my head. 9/11 was broadcasted all over the world like some Hollywood movie with the body count elevating through out the day, but the U.S. gov't can't give a shred of evidence indicating Osama was even killed. This alone can make the average person question what the hell is going on in the minds of one of the most powerful governments on Earth.

Whether it was incompetence or compliance, where has justice been served? In a military trial only shown by CCTV to a selected few family members of the victims of 9/11? Wow. Yay America. Let these "terrorists" murder our own people live on television around the globe without any real vengeance for those who perished. Hey wait, let's point the finger at the WRONG country, let's invade their land, kill the innocent, sacrifice the lives of our soldiers only to find out America's reasoning for war is nothing but a fabrication. Supporting the official story is supporting corruption taking into consideration the amount of anomalies and cover ups surrounding it.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

You're right. Hid daddy and former CIA director did most of the planning.

So you're saying it's the armies of sinister secret agents who are the ones that pulled off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the near perfection of a supernatural act? What makes them so supernaturally perfect?

You overlook the fact that Bush wasn't the one who attempted to hand out bottles of water to hurricane victims in New Orleans either. He handed it off to the same flunkies he would have handed off this "inside job" to.

Originally posted by homervbOf course Bush couldn't concoct this on his own.

Not sure why Bush had anything at all do with 9/11. The plot, whether AQ or NWO inspired began long before Bush was even a nominee for President. Darn, it was almost 2001 before we even knew who the POTUS was going to be (remember Florida?). The gang in charge of most of the intelligence apparatus were hold-overs from the Clinton administration. Not sure how Bush fits into the picture at all.

Originally posted by homervb
Of course Bush couldn't concoct this on his own. No one is saying that. If they're covering up all incompetence then how is that any better than covering up compliance? No one has suffered the consequences of 3,000 innocent deaths and if you say the death of Osama was justice being served then all I can do is shake my head. 9/11 was broadcasted all over the world like some Hollywood movie with the body count elevating through out the day, but the U.S. gov't can't give a shred of evidence indicating Osama was even killed. This alone can make the average person question what the hell is going on in the minds of one of the most powerful governments on Earth.

Now here we are in agreement. To me, seeing Bin Laden's half missing head would have been the closure I've been looking forward to for the last ten years...but we need to keep things in context. Once upon a time people were more down to Earth so news agencies wouldn't think twice about showing news reels of Moussolini hanging dead from a streetlight in Milan, but nowadays society has become so feminized that they've managed to convince men it's manly to shave their chests and legs. They even blur out images of dead enemy soldiers in world war II photographs they show on television nowadays so it comes as no surprise that "modern" people have been bred to be so fragile that they'd recoil in emotional horror, vomit profusely, and have extensive sessions with the therapists they have on speed dial if they ever saw real world photos of Bin Laden's half missing head.

Personally, I think they will eventually release the photos. We just have to wait until we get the touchy-feeley ministers of propaganda like Hillary Clinton out of office. If there are people who will need years of therapy after seeing it, don't look at it.

Whether it was incompetence or compliance, where has justice been served? In a military trial only shown by CCTV to a selected few family members of the victims of 9/11? Wow. Yay America. Let these "terrorists" murder our own people live on television around the globe without any real vengeance for those who perished. Hey wait, let's point the finger at the WRONG country, let's invade their land, kill the innocent, sacrifice the lives of our soldiers only to find out America's reasoning for war is nothing but a fabrication. Supporting the official story is supporting corruption taking into consideration the amount of anomalies and cover ups surrounding it.

I don't understand your point here. Are you saying Afghanistan was the wrong country? You may not agree with the grounds for war, but it's still an undeniable fact that it was the adopted home of Al aida and the Taliban was actively protecting them.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
So you're saying it's the armies of sinister secret agents who are the ones that pulled off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the near perfection of a supernatural act? What makes them so supernaturally perfect?

No, they pulled off another Reichstag X 10 and the story is more full of holes than a mountain of volcanic rock. Anybody can see this with their own eyes and logic unless they're just hell bent on defending the Nazis in spite of the fact that every segment of the OS stinks to high heaven. I'm sure some of the details were discussed at Bilderberg meetings but since they are off limits to the media then what we end up with is a Mother Goose Fairy Tale, which is the only way to describe the OS.

Originally posted by 911files

Originally posted by homervbOf course Bush couldn't concoct this on his own.

Not sure why Bush had anything at all do with 9/11. The plot, whether AQ or NWO inspired began long before Bush was even a nominee for President. Darn, it was almost 2001 before we even knew who the POTUS was going to be (remember Florida?). The gang in charge of most of the intelligence apparatus were hold-overs from the Clinton administration. Not sure how Bush fits into the picture at all.

It all really depends on which conspiracy theory it is you're pushing. The "secret controlled demolitions" want to blame the Jews and those dancing Israelis, while the "lasers from outer space" and "no plane hit the Pentagon" people blame Bush, Cheney, and his bunch. The "let it happen on purpose" crowd tends to blame Bush, but he's not the general behing the plot- he's just a puppet and the ones to blame are really the military industrial complex and sometimes the fringe "secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists".

Remember, conspiracy theorists don't take the evidence and reverse engineer it into a scenario. They come up with a scenario first and then pick and choose the evidence that happens to support the scenario. This is why there are people so hung up in these conspiracy claims they don't quite grasp the reality that Bush is no longer president- it's Obama who should be the one behind the sinisister secret plot to take over the world, now.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by SimontheMagus

 

Contact was lost at 1333 Zulu, and the plane was "intercepted" at 1454 Zulu. That is one hour twenty-one minutes.......from YOUR source

Now, why am I not surprised that Simon did not acknowledge that he is wrong?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Whether it was incompetence or compliance, where has justice been served? In a military trial only shown by CCTV to a selected few family members of the victims of 9/11? Wow. Yay America. Let these "terrorists" murder our own people live on television around the globe without any real vengeance for those who perished. Hey wait, let's point the finger at the WRONG country, let's invade their land, kill the innocent, sacrifice the lives of our soldiers only to find out America's reasoning for war is nothing but a fabrication. Supporting the official story is supporting corruption taking into consideration the amount of anomalies and cover ups surrounding it.

I don't understand your point here. Are you saying Afghanistan was the wrong country? You may not agree with the grounds for war, but it's still an undeniable fact that it was the adopted home of Al aida and the Taliban was actively protecting them.

I was referring to Iraq, and the fabricated Iraq/Al-Qaeda connection as well as the fabricated evidence of WMDs in Iraq

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
they don't quite grasp the reality that Bush is no longer president- it's Obama who should be the one behind the sinisister secret plot to take over the world, now.

The US President is a mere puppet and I highly doubt that Obama is allowed to select his own tie let alone make a decision that really means anything. Many Presidents themselves have been quoted on the Shadow Government. It is real, and it is a fact. And all your obfuscations and deflections by calling them "secret sinister agents" are laughable. The idea that everything goes along willy nilly with no planning is even more laughable. There's nothing more amusing than a good Co-Incidence Theory.

Many "insiders" have said that Bush Sr, son of confirmed Nazi Prescott Bush, is still running the show in Washington. They attempted to install a Fascist Dictatorship in the US in 1933. This was exposed by Smedley Butler. Congress found that there was indeed a conspiracy but failed to indict anyone.

So tell me Dave, have these people "reformed"? Have they had a change of heart? Is that the tripe you're selling?

I honestly and truly laugh at all the nonsense you post, after I get done shaking my head at the deliberate intention to mislead.

Originally posted by vipertech0596

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by SimontheMagus

 

Contact was lost at 1333 Zulu, and the plane was "intercepted" at 1454 Zulu. That is one hour twenty-one minutes.......from YOUR source

Now, why am I not surprised that Simon did not acknowledge that he is wrong?

I'm still looking into it. It appears to be unclear and the times do not add up. Probably more disinfo from your sources....

pilotsfor911truth.org...

And even if you were right, which you are not, I can pull out an arsenal of intercepts that routinely happen within 30 minutes. It's pretty much standard procedure, except for 911 when everybody was either diverted, preoccupied, took the day off, or left it in the hands of Cheney who deliberately stood down.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

No, they pulled off another Reichstag X 10 and the story is more full of holes than a mountain of volcanic rock. Anybody can see this with their own eyes and logic unless they're just hell bent on defending the Nazis in spite of the fact that every segment of the OS stinks to high heaven. I'm sure some of the details were discussed at Bilderberg meetings but since they are off limits to the media then what we end up with is a Mother Goose Fairy Tale, which is the only way to describe the OS.

Now you're just being silly. For decades, Islamic fanaticism have been committing hijackings, suicide attacks, acts of terrorism, and general murder of innocent civilians, and before that, they were chopping off each other's heads for centuries to determine who rightfully became head dungeon master when Mohammed died. Heck, all we need to do is look at how the entire muslim world rioted over utterly trivial things like cartoons of Mohammed in Danish newspapers to understand these people don't tolerate opinions outside of their own culture and they're willing to take lives to make the point...even if it's their own people. The Palestinians aren't shooting their homemade rockets into Israel to kill people. They're trying to instigate Israel into counterattacking and kill lots of innocent Palestinian people. Life becomes pretty cheap once you grant yourself the right to be God's executioner.

It's not a question of anyone else "defending the Nazies". When we have a group of Muslim fanatics with a paper trail linking them to both the hijackings and organizations of Islamic militants it's a question of why YOU are defending religious zealots who want to bring the world back to the middle ages. These people had the unique combination of motive, zealotry, history, and context to pull off such an attack and it's being uninformed and ignorant to ignore their culpability and insist it was really armies of sinister secret agents plotting to take over the world. How you can't comprehend this irrefutable fact is beyond me.

Not the first time in history man used deception to make people believe they saw a large building disappear.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

The US President is a mere puppet and I highly doubt that Obama is allowed to select his own tie let alone make a decision that really means anything. Many Presidents themselves have been quoted on the Shadow Government. It is real, and it is a fact. And all your obfuscations and deflections by calling them "secret sinister agents" are laughable. The idea that everything goes along willy nilly with no planning is even more laughable. There's nothing more amusing than a good Co-Incidence Theory.

So do I take it you're one of the "9/11 was staged by the Jewish World Order" proponents?

Many "insiders" have said that Bush Sr, son of confirmed Nazi Prescott Bush, is still running the show in Washington. They attempted to install a Fascist Dictatorship in the US in 1933. This was exposed by Smedley Butler. Congress found that there was indeed a conspiracy but failed to indict anyone.

Don't be an idiot. That whole "Prescott Bush was a Nazi" bit is nothing but a six degrees of separation "Kevin Bacon" game between Bush, Bush's grandfather, the bank Prescott Bush worked at, the Dutch business conglomerate that owned it, the German conglomnerate that owned the Dutch conglomerate, and the german financier who owned the German conglomerate who game money to the Nazis before they came to power. I know this because you're probably the thousandth person who tried to play that card here, so I know full well why you're building these convoluted connections that happened before Bush was ever even elected- you want to link Bush to the Nazies like every other 16 year old kid does when he wants to slander anyone he doesn't like.

Seriously, dude, grow up. Bush did enough legitimately stupid things on his own without needing to play these retarded "Bush has links to the Nazies" games.

So tell me Dave, have these people "reformed"? Have they had a change of heart? Is that the tripe you're selling?

No, actually, I'd have to say they're dead. Prescott Bush died in 1972.

What say you go off to the side and get your conspiracy claims straightened out and then get back to me? When you're starting to say zombies are involved, it's time to reign in the runaway imagination a little.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
It's not a question of anyone else "defending the Nazies". When we have a group of Muslim fanatics with a paper trail linking them to both the hijackings and organizations of Islamic militants it's a question of why YOU are defending religious zealots who want to bring the world back to the middle ages. These people had the unique combination of motive, zealotry, history, and context to pull off such an attack and it's being uninformed and ignorant to ignore their culpability and insist it was really armies of sinister secret agents plotting to take over the world. How you can't comprehend this irrefutable fact is beyond me.

Have Christians got a track record for death and violence that's any better than the Muslims? You fail to recognize who it was that invented these religions in the first place. It's the same cabal that pulled off 911. But you could never understand conspiracies, let alone those that cross many centuries and lifetimes. You're just not getting the big picture, that the human race needs to overcome these negative Elite in order to evolve to the next level, free of suffering, injustice, and hatred.

Whatever happens, rest assured that 911 is the turning point, either for their Fascist New World Order or for their downfall and defeat.

The work that you do seeks to keep the human race suppressed and assists the Fascists. I only hope that you don't realize that and you really believe your own nonsense, which is excusable. The alternate, that you do it willfully, is not.

Originally posted by homervb
I was referring to Iraq, and the fabricated Iraq/Al-Qaeda connection as well as the fabricated evidence of WMDs in Iraq

Now I am in 100% in agreement with you. The invasion of Iraq is by far the most shameful thing Bush did becuase up until then we only lashed out when we or our friends were attacked. The war in Iraq was the first unprovoked war in our history and it leaves a stench of imperialism we will never be able to shake off....and it was all over bad intelligence. In the meantime, unknown thousands or even hundreds of thousands have died as a result. I agree completely that "whoops, my bad" doesn't cut it and someone needs to answer for this, so I hope you'll see my point when I say it's hard to do this when we have to waste so much time arguing with all these Alex Jones groupies insisting the 9/11 attack was all just a hologram staged by secret cults of Satan worshipping numerologists..

It's one thing to doubt the findings of the 9/11 commission as improbable. It's another thing entirely to attempt to substitute something even more improbable in its place.

reply to post by SimontheMagus


I used YOUR source. Although its timeline does MATCH all the rest of the records. One hour, twenty-one minutes from loss of contact to intercept.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave


So you're saying it's the armies of sinister secret agents who are the ones that pulled off the most complex and intricate conspiracy in all of recorded human history with the near perfection .

what "perfection" are you talking about? whoever pulled 9/11 #ed it up big time.

reply to post by Logical one

Well actually they didn't........in fact the US Air Defense wasn't involved in blocking the planes.......because they were civilian planes......generally and certainly before 9/11 the US Air defense doesn't target civilan jets.

Just saying it and adding extra periods doesn't make it true.

In the event of a hijacking or suspected hijacking, norad scrambles fighters to intercept the plane. This has been done hundreds of times, including the famous golfer incident that I'm too lazy to google.

Fighters were scrambled, just too late, and in the wrong direction, which is not debunked, it's documented fact.

Protocol was changed as to what clearance was required to order a civilian jet shot down shortly before 911, and changed back sometime after.

Originally posted by SimontheMagus

Have Christians got a track record for death and violence that's any better than the Muslims? You fail to recognize who it was that invented these religions in the first place. It's the same cabal that pulled off 911.

Excuse me but all you're doing is PROVING what I've been saying. 9/11 was an attack to force others to adopt public policy they would not normally do, in this case, to get the west out of the mideast so Bin Laden and his religious cult can have a free hand in bringing it back to the middle ages. THAT is what makes sense, not some these bizarre "we're going to create a false flag against Iraq...by framing Afghanistan" and "we'll crash planes into some buildings in front of every TV camera in the world...and then secretly destroy them with hidden controlled demolitions" comic book stories.

But you could never understand conspiracies, let alone those that cross many centuries and lifetimes.

You're right, I don't. Mostly, because I don't speak "crazy". If religious fanatics genuinely thought their actions all the way through they might have realized they're essentially fighting and dying over who has the better imaginary friend.

Whatever happens, rest assured that 911 is the turning point, either for their Fascist New World Order or for their downfall and defeat.

Let me know when this "Fascist world order" arrives, because all the Chicken Littles have been preaching the 9/11 sky has been falling for the last ten years. I rememebr when Alex Jones even had a counter on his website counting down the days until "Bush instigated a nuclear war with Iran". Yep, that was a nasty conflict, wasn't it?