Maple trees dropping leaves left and right, (Part Two).

reply to post by Iwinder


Get a grip will ya?
It's a rainy Sunday afternoon here in Beautiful Southern Ontario.
And my large Maple outback, and the 2 dozen I can see beyond it are just fine!
I'd be more worried about the Emerald Ash Borer than dropping leaves off a maple.
Besides, most maple trees in Southern Ontario are infected with a benign spore that turns the leaves spltchy black/brown, and drop early.
It does not kill the tree, but it looks like crap.
The only way to get rid of it is to burn the leaves, mulching just spreads it.

Originally posted by Cynic
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Get a grip will ya?
It's a rainy Sunday afternoon here in Beautiful Southern Ontario.
And my large Maple outback, and the 2 dozen I can see beyond it are just fine!
I'd be more worried about the Emerald Ash Borer than dropping leaves off a maple.
Besides, most maple trees in Southern Ontario are infected with a benign spore that turns the leaves spltchy black/brown, and drop early.
It does not kill the tree, but it looks like crap.
The only way to get rid of it is to burn the leaves, mulching just spreads it.

Thanks for the reply, but you information is incorrect and I believe it is more serious than just a spore.
We had a spell of the white mold spore here about 5 years ago when it rained every day for almost the whole summer and it cleared up after about two years or so.

Please take the time to read my first thread on this and check out the links in there if you have time.
You are handing out advice here that our tree doctor would not even mutter.
The best he could do was heat stress and that was not written in stone either.

Please don't derail my thread if you have nothing to offer but some spore you cannot even spell correctly. let alone provide links like I did in the first thread which I believe you have not even looked at.

Regardless I appreciate your input no matter what the reason is.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by stanguilles7


I guess that would depend on species tolerances. Some just cannot handle heat and some just cannot handle cold. March of 2011 we got hit with a zone 4 winter and we are a zone 8, we lost a ton of stuff, even natives.

I am in the desert southwest, and in the summer I could provide water for northern based trees, like the sugar maple, it is just the heat index that keeps them from thriving. Sorry, they are here, but they do have to be pampered.

IWinder when was the last time you fed your trees? Just watering a tree with no amendments over time considering the last few yrs of stress, this just may be a cumulative effect you're seeing?
Call me crazy but trees are just big plants. We're just more used to them taking care of themselves. Most housing developments back in the day had crappy backfill used and now 30-50 yrs later the soil is just tapped out. We start seeing the trees struggle an just replace them.

Every summer I have some leaf drop from my junk cherries, walnut an slippery elms. Usually if they are stressed.
The leaves you pictured look like just normal heat stress. Leaves are also a lot like our hair...trees lose some regularly as well. Southern Ontario is also in the acid rain belt an with the jet stream wonky this yr bet you're picking up more pollution as well. I'm just south of you across Lake Erie an our maples are fine.

Also I googled an checked the canadian news...please link the multiple articles regarding this as I'm not finding them. Thanks!

Originally posted by Caver78
IWinder when was the last time you fed your trees? Just watering a tree with no amendments over time considering the last few yrs of stress, this just may be a cumulative effect you're seeing?
Call me crazy but trees are just big plants. We're just more used to them taking care of themselves. Most housing developments back in the day had crappy backfill used and now 30-50 yrs later the soil is just tapped out. We start seeing the trees struggle an just replace them.

Every summer I have some leaf drop from my junk cherries, walnut an slippery elms. Usually if they are stressed.
The leaves you pictured look like just normal heat stress. Leaves are also a lot like our hair...trees lose some regularly as well. Southern Ontario is also in the acid rain belt an with the jet stream wonky this yr bet you're picking up more pollution as well. I'm just south of you across Lake Erie an our maples are fine.

Also I googled an checked the canadian news...please link the multiple articles regarding this as I'm not finding them. Thanks!

Hey thanks for the nice post and yes we fertilize here like mad and the trees get it big time, I mentioned earlier here that we put a well in just for our gardens and trees and they love the ground water.

As far as news site links go you will have to check out my first thread listed in the OP and there are links in there from last year.

This year I thought I would post if I saw the same thing and not wait for the media to tell me my trees were in trouble.

So that is why I posted now and I can almost bet you that It will be in the news much much later on this year.
Your angle on pollution is food for thought and I thank you for that.
Yeah you not far from us here and please keep this thread informed if you see any changes in your trees there.
Thanks very much for your thought provoking post.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Greensage
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I guess that would depend on species tolerances. Some just cannot handle heat and some just cannot handle cold. March of 2011 we got hit with a zone 4 winter and we are a zone 8, we lost a ton of stuff, even natives.

I am in the desert southwest, and in the summer I could provide water for northern based trees, like the sugar maple, it is just the heat index that keeps them from thriving. Sorry, they are here, but they do have to be pampered.

edit on 6/17/2012 by Greensage because: (no reason given)

Good points and thanks for adding your personal experience here, I think the answer lies in experience and knowing your trees and plants on a yearly basis.

I am very very observant of what happens here in our own little patch of greenery and I can tell you this without blinking, I see what I see and it is wrong here big time.

The weather angle you mention should not be ignored for sure.
Am I correct in saying you lost a ton of plants in 2011 which you never have before then?

Thanks for your very informative post.
Regards, Iwinder

First point: You are incredibly patient.

Okay, I havent read your previous thread, so apologies if this is redundant info:

Has there been anything in the past few years that may have disturbed the trees roots? Construction in the immediate vicinity? How close to other trees, structures, or the roads? How tall/old are your maples? Any chance you have a septic system near-by? Have your neighbors done any digging or construction?

When was that well put in and what is its proximity to the trees?

All of these things could be effecting the roots in a way that is stressing the trees. The fact that you say its not happening to other trees in the area makes me think it;s not environmental (at least not primarily), but a problem with the trees.

The "Scorching" your pictures show (when the outer edges curl in and turn brown) is usually a sign the tree is not well. Not dying necessarily, but being restricted by something, likely at the roots. Maybe something underground? Or maybe their outer roots have reached something limiting their further growth (like the road, neighboring properties, etc).

here's a website that talks about it in far greater detail

www.uri.edu...

I look forward to your reply.

Down in the Midwestern US, we had an extremely mild winter, then a coldish spring and now a slow start to summer. The mild winter caused the trees to bud a lot more which meant more leaves, then the cold snap slowed the flow and now it's getting up in the 80's and 90's. It's not the usual weather pattern and it causes trees to react. From the mild winter, they leafed a lot, expecting a very warm spring/summer, but the cold caused the sap to flow back down a little, so the leaves dropped.
Trees are very sensitive to the environment. Not sure what your weather pattern has been up there but if it was out of the ordinary, that may very well have a lot to do with it, especially with the heat stress from last year. The tree's internal workings are a little out of sync but it should stabalize

You're welcome Iwinder...no prob. It also occured to me if they are stressed triming them back might help. Sometimes taking off some top growth gives the plant or tree a break to recover. Sorry I missed that you do feed them, are you using commercial mixes or have you soil tested?
Here we have problems with heavy metals and acid from the past industrial uses of our area as well as playing guess where the ''fill'' for the houses came from? This place was built in 1940 so that rules out some of the worst stuff, but I had great sucess with bringing back antique shrubs with bone meal and blood meal. Sounds ludicris to topdress just for some old bushes. However Did it anyway an was shocked by the results. Things came back stunningly fast and vigorous.
Have found that reading old, old gardening books from the 30's an 40's has been of greater help than the current ones. Hope that gives you some ideas to try.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
First point: You are incredibly patient.

Okay, I havent read your previous thread, so apologies if this is redundant info:

Has there been anything in the past few years that may have disturbed the trees roots? Construction in the immediate vicinity? How close to other trees, structures, or the roads? How tall/old are your maples? Any chance you have a septic system near-by? Have your neighbors done any digging or construction?

When was that well put in and what is its proximity to the trees?

All of these things could be effecting the roots in a way that is stressing the trees. The fact that you say its not happening to other trees in the area makes me think it;s not environmental (at least not primarily), but a problem with the trees.

No problem with the apology as I felt I owed you one anyways for my snarkey reply to your first post.
I have a major problem with people posting whom have not read the entire OP.
It's a hang up of mine I guess, anyways thanks very much for the link and I read it front to back and it does seem to apply here somewhat, The symptoms are correct but we have no construction nor drought here at all.

Our front maple has the yard to itself and our three others share the back yard with a pond and some pretty nice gardens if I say so myself:-).

Again I just cut the lawn yesterday and this morning it was loaded with leaves.

I appreciate your apology and I hope you get mine here too.
Thanks very much for the link and I will keep the uniformed informed here if I can.
Regards, Iwinder

Star for you sir/madam

The "Scorching" your pictures show (when the outer edges curl in and turn brown) is usually a sign the tree is not well. Not dying necessarily, but being restricted by something, likely at the roots. Maybe something underground? Or maybe their outer roots have reached something limiting their further growth (like the road, neighboring properties, etc).

here's a website that talks about it in far greater detail

www.uri.edu...

I look forward to your reply.

edit on 17-6-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Down in the Midwestern US, we had an extremely mild winter, then a coldish spring and now a slow start to summer. The mild winter caused the trees to bud a lot more which meant more leaves, then the cold snap slowed the flow and now it's getting up in the 80's and 90's. It's not the usual weather pattern and it causes trees to react. From the mild winter, they leafed a lot, expecting a very warm spring/summer, but the cold caused the sap to flow back down a little, so the leaves dropped.
Trees are very sensitive to the environment. Not sure what your weather pattern has been up there but if it was out of the ordinary, that may very well have a lot to do with it, especially with the heat stress from last year. The tree's internal workings are a little out of sync but it should stabalize

Well said there and I agree with your comments 100%
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder

Our front maple has the yard to itself and our three others share the back yard with a pond and some pretty nice gardens if I say so myself:-).

How close is the front one to the road/driveway/house, etc? That could effect root growth. How old/tall is the tree?

And the back?

Again, as the roots grow, if they run into anything underground that will limit their growth, it could weaken the tree to some degree (not life threatening), and cause the signs of stress you are seeing. It could easily be the pond, nearby roads, etc.

Originally posted by Caver78
You're welcome Iwinder...no prob. It also occured to me if they are stressed triming them back might help. Sometimes taking off some top growth gives the plant or tree a break to recover. Sorry I missed that you do feed them, are you using commercial mixes or have you soil tested?
Here we have problems with heavy metals and acid from the past industrial uses of our area as well as playing guess where the ''fill'' for the houses came from? This place was built in 1940 so that rules out some of the worst stuff, but I had great sucess with bringing back antique shrubs with bone meal and blood meal. Sounds ludicris to topdress just for some old bushes. However Did it anyway an was shocked by the results. Things came back stunningly fast and vigorous.
Have found that reading old, old gardening books from the 30's an 40's has been of greater help than the current ones. Hope that gives you some ideas to try.

Excellent post and then some, We live here on the old Lake Huron lake bed about half a mile or so from the actual lake now.

It is all sand and dunes from wind rain and glaciers eroding the bed rock.
Our house was built in the very early 50's and to do so they had to plow out the dunes and the ancient oaks..

Here contaminants are not an issue, unless they dumped some stuff here when they dug out the foundations.......

stranger things have happened.

Thanks so much for adding to the information here.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Our front maple has the yard to itself and our three others share the back yard with a pond and some pretty nice gardens if I say so myself:-).

How close is the front one to the road/driveway/house, etc? That could effect root growth. How old/tall is the tree?

And the back?


The front tree is in the pictures Des so kindly posted for me, as you can see it is dead center in the yard and has about 60 feet deep by 65 feet wide for space and no trees encroaching on it.

The front tree is about 50 feet tall and if you check the pic you will see we had it cabled to save it from splitting.

The back trees vary, one is only 4 years old and the other two are around 12 years old or so.

Thanks for your interest in this thread,
Regards, Iwinder

Again, as the roots grow, if they run into anything underground that will limit their growth, it could weaken the tree to some degree (not life threatening), and cause the signs of stress you are seeing. It could easily be the pond, nearby roads, etc.

reply to post by Iwinder


Have you tracked the UV index for your area? The index seems to be very high, very early, this year. I have seen it max out at 11 several days, adding the incoming CME energy might be too much for some plants - and humans. There is a good thread on here by someone who has graphed the UV index, seems to be increasing and this might be the issue.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Have you tracked the UV index for your area? The index seems to be very high, very early, this year. I have seen it max out at 11 several days, adding the incoming CME energy might be too much for some plants - and humans. There is a good thread on here by someone who has graphed the UV index, seems to be increasing and this might be the issue.

Good stuff I mentioned in my OP that if I was a guesser or better and had nothing to lose I would go with a solar issue but that was just me speculating.

Regards Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


Has disease been ruled out?
Does the tree[s] seem as full-leafed as in past years?



So far, I not seen anything like that here in SE Michigan.....fingers crossed, though.
As we do have more than a few stressed tress on our block....fewer leaves, smaller leaves...but so far, no drop.

reply to post by Iwinder


Forgive me if I missed it, but what kind of fertilizer do you use?
Organic or inorganic?

It does make a huge difference.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Has disease been ruled out?
Does the tree[s] seem as full-leafed as in past years?



So far, I not seen anything like that here in SE Michigan.....fingers crossed, though.
As we do have more than a few stressed tress on our block....fewer leaves, smaller leaves...but so far, no drop.

Yes we had them all checked out last year and the arborologist (tree doctor) said it was probably heat stress but it was for sure not disease.
So the thing is this year up until I posted this thread we had no really hot periods at all compared to last year.
You can water all you want but if it is heat stress it won't do any good at all.

All we are hoping for is some kind of answer because these trees are very important to us and we have spent lots of time and money on them.
Well worth it when you can enjoy the shady canopies they offer in the summer, and the colours in the fall.
Thanks for your interest in this thread.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Forgive me if I missed it, but what kind of fertilizer do you use?
Organic or inorganic?

It does make a huge difference.

Inorganic it is, tree spikes every spring, plus they get the lawn fertilizer I apply here every 8 weeks from early spring to about late September.

Good point and I will read up on that.
Regards Iwinder