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Science=God, God=Science

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posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Here goes. Science=God, God=Science. Now what do I mean by this? I would like to go at this from a religious angle. Science people, please just watch for a few.

Okay, let's agree that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Fine. We take that as a fact of faith. Now here is where you need to do a little 'open minded' thinking. It all begins with that word - "created". So the question now is 'did God just slap some rocks together and pull a giraffe out of the ground by it's ears, or, did God set the Universe in motion based on a specific set of rules and organization?"

Now, moving on to just one aspect of the Universe we live in. Gravity. Gravity is a well known fact. It exists. It is measurable. Even though we don't really understand the force behind gravity, there is no denying its affects. So, if gravity is a constant in our Universe, and the Universe was created by God, does it not stand to reason that God then created gravity?

So to expand that argument out, God did not haphazardly throw the cosmos together with little or no understanding of how it all worked. He did so with a precise and exacting set of rules. The rules we know today as science. Science shows the miracle behind Gods all knowing ways.

Almost done. First we need to travel back a few hundred years. Back to when the Sun orbited the Earth. Back to when to knowing the workings of the human body was heresy. Back to when religion was 'more correct' than science. We know today how the solar system works, even though there was a time religion said otherwise. We now have medicine when at one time it was the work of the devil.

What I am trying to say is that by denying science you deny God and the order upon which he created the Universe. Just because you don't see how science works with God's word it doesn't mean they are incompatible. Unless you still believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, then maybe, just maybe, there could have been a big bang. Remember, just because a scientific theory does not fit in with your current religious view does not make it untrue, it just may mean that you need understand that God knew what He was doing when He created us all.

Please let me know your views on Science and God.




posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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Science and Religion have never been far apart, and I would suggest fall from the same tree.

The Truth Behind Numbers: Philosophy, Geometry, and Religion?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Next, I only provide as a reference that supports my previous statement.
Not gonna lie, it's kinda awesome, in fact... it's meant for elementary school, I randomly found it one day downloading pdfs..

Greek Mythology And The Forms of Energy



Greek Mythology is a wonderful literary vehicle with which to intergrate forms of energy. The ancient Greeks did not have the scientific tools we have today to study the natural phenomena affecting them, so they used myths to try and make sense of their world.


A simple search on google, using the title... and you will find it.

St. Augustine also wrote that he felt as if numbers were the means through which god spoke.

There is an incredibly long, and AWESOME history between religion and sciences, especially if you go Ancient Greek with it.

If you want to take a pantheistic point of view, then yeah Science is God... which seems to be what is the truth. From celestial worship, to pagan, to straight up spiritual... it's all attempts to describe and equate the universe through a means of correlation.

Religion is essentially a form of philosophy when it comes down to it. Our role, what we're supposed to do, because of our relationship with the universe and such... But then you reverse engineer, and you realize those who created and helped develop philosophy also were heavily into geometry. As well as mathematics... which then asks.... Could these philosophies be derived from such? Is our observation not always been dictated through pattern recognition, and observation of these patterns found through out nature?

That's when I pull out this fun set of images, and say... S&F's good post.





posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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our modern science is just a young form of spirituality, we're on the verge of that being irrefutable.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Religion = man-made fairy-tales.

Science = REAL facts and REAL evidence.

If "god" does exist, SCIENCE will help us gain a better understanding of it. While silly man-made religion will lead us in the OPPOSITE direction.

edit on 15-6-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Atlantis




There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon,
the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father’s chariot, because he was
not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the
earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a
myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around
the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after
long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and
lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on
the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour,
delivers and preserves us.



I thought I'd toss in another reference...

also:




The so-called Pythagoreans, who were the first to take up mathematics, not only advanced this subject, but saturated with it, they fancied that the principles of mathematics were the principles of all things. —Aristotle, Metaphysics 1–5 , cc. 350 BC


The principals of all things.



There is evidence that Plato possibly took from Pythagoras the idea that mathematics and, generally speaking, abstract thinking is a secure basis for philosophical thinking as well as "for substantial theses in science and morals".


en.wikipedia.org...




LesMisanthrope

Yes, it is true. Take a look at Bertrand Russel's "History of Western Philosophy." Ancient philosophers were inspired by people like Pythagorus and Babylonian mathematicians.
edit on 15-6-2012 by FractalChaos13242017 because: additional comment



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by ObservingTheWorld
 


Very good argument, well organized and thought out. Several oversights, or at least I think so, that I would like to point out- science suggests that the world was just slapped together, and science is by no means a set of rules, science is a measurement that, some believe, helps to make educated guesses (even though some of the calculations are indesputable, even if it only be in our current form).



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
Here goes. Science=God, God=Science. Now what do I mean by this? I would like to go at this from a religious angle. Science people, please just watch for a few.

Okay, let's agree that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Fine. We take that as a fact of faith. Now here is where you need to do a little 'open minded' thinking. It all begins with that word - "created". So the question now is 'did God just slap some rocks together and pull a giraffe out of the ground by it's ears, or, did God set the Universe in motion based on a specific set of rules and organization?"

Now, moving on to just one aspect of the Universe we live in. Gravity. Gravity is a well known fact. It exists. It is measurable. Even though we don't really understand the force behind gravity, there is no denying its affects. So, if gravity is a constant in our Universe, and the Universe was created by God, does it not stand to reason that God then created gravity?

So to expand that argument out, God did not haphazardly throw the cosmos together with little or no understanding of how it all worked. He did so with a precise and exacting set of rules. The rules we know today as science. Science shows the miracle behind Gods all knowing ways.

Almost done. First we need to travel back a few hundred years. Back to when the Sun orbited the Earth. Back to when to knowing the workings of the human body was heresy. Back to when religion was 'more correct' than science. We know today how the solar system works, even though there was a time religion said otherwise. We now have medicine when at one time it was the work of the devil.

What I am trying to say is that by denying science you deny God and the order upon which he created the Universe. Just because you don't see how science works with God's word it doesn't mean they are incompatible. Unless you still believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, then maybe, just maybe, there could have been a big bang. Remember, just because a scientific theory does not fit in with your current religious view does not make it untrue, it just may mean that you need understand that God knew what He was doing when He created us all.

Please let me know your views on Science and God.


Wrong! Denying God does NOT deny science. I have no idea where your getting this idea from...unless you can prove God exists or does not exist, it does not belong in science. Science needs data to come up with any kind of conclusion, religion does not.

Just because you see how science can correlate with the Bible or God doesn't mean they are compatible.

By the way the Big Bang was theorized by a Catholic monk..,

I am a Christian...a Christian with many many unanswered questions, but the difference Christianity made in my life is irrefutable to me. But "Gods" effect on my life can be nothing more than mathematical coincidence or something else entirely.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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All this assumes that God is real and created the universe though. I could make the same thread and replace "God" with anything. You can't make assumptions like that and claim science is God otherwise it's completely hypothetical and means absolutely nothing. That needs to be proven, not assumed, then it's science.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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Well I believe the sun and rest of the universe rotate around the earth. I am using a point of perspective as many people have done in the past. Sure I believe we spin around the sun, I know both perspectives and understand that both have merit depending on how we look at things. Armed with this knowledge of relative position I cannot say that the observer of the sun is wrong because he sees it moving that way. I cannot say that the person who says the earth rotates around the sun is right either because in many cases the point of perspective takes precedence over scientific fact. The sun does not really rise in the east and set in the west but science says it does. Science even gives times of sunrise, debunk that fallacy.

After studying the motives of science and the way evidence is obtained and translated I have lost my respect for it and question the intent of it's evidence. I believe in god because I believe in structure that employs a direction of righteousness. I can't believe in anyone who says you need proof that what you are personally seeing is real.



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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I agree with you, I believe the universe is god, science is the search for god, but not half doing it.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Firstly, thank you for your time and replies. I wasn't sure how this discussion would turn out. After reading many post on ATS regarding science and religion, I understand there are a great number of views and philosophies regarding both. there are those on both sides who see their position as the only correct one anyone should believe. There are many who take the middle ground.

Let's take a look at some posts...


Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Religion = man-made fairy-tales.

Science = REAL facts and REAL evidence.

If "god" does exist, SCIENCE will help us gain a better understanding of it. While silly man-made religion will lead us in the OPPOSITE direction.


Very correct. The number of religions that are and have been are as numerous as the points of views that have ever existed. And that is why I can't be religious as I see them as an opinion agrees upon by a group of individuals, well at least until someone changes their mind and starts a new religion.



Originally posted by onthedownlow
reply to post by ObservingTheWorld
 


Very good argument, well organized and thought out. Several oversights, or at least I think so, that I would like to point out- science suggests that the world was just slapped together, and science is by no means a set of rules, science is a measurement that, some believe, helps to make educated guesses (even though some of the calculations are indesputable, even if it only be in our current form).


Thank you. However, I feel that even though the world was formed from the nebulous gases and other debris in this portion of our galaxy, it did so following a specific set of rules. Even in chaos there is order.


Originally posted by DrChuck

Wrong! Denying God does NOT deny science. I have no idea where your getting this idea from...unless you can prove God exists or does not exist, it does not belong in science. Science needs data to come up with any kind of conclusion, religion does not.

Just because you see how science can correlate with the Bible or God doesn't mean they are compatible.

By the way the Big Bang was theorized by a Catholic monk..,

I am a Christian...a Christian with many many unanswered questions, but the difference Christianity made in my life is irrefutable to me. But "Gods" effect on my life can be nothing more than mathematical coincidence or something else entirely.


Actually, I said denying science denies God. Science may be nothing more than rigorous measurement of God's design. So if quantum physics is a surprise to God, then God is not all knowing and all powerful, and in my view, not God.

However, if God is the ultimate creator, the quantum mechanics are His baby. Either He set the Universe in motion or He didn't. that's it.

This does not mean that God can't influence you in your life. Far from it. It just means that this world we live on runs by a specific set of principles. Your relationship with God is between you and God. It is a personal thing that you share with Him, no math involved.



Originally posted by SpearMint
All this assumes that God is real and created the universe though. I could make the same thread and replace "God" with anything. You can't make assumptions like that and claim science is God otherwise it's completely hypothetical and means absolutely nothing. That needs to be proven, not assumed, then it's science.


Too true. It wouldn't shock me or surprise me if there were no God. What I am trying to say is if, and only if, there is a God, then the world we live in was created on what we call scientific principles.

If those who claim a belief in God but then turn a blind eye to, well let's go back to gravity. If they say God had nothing to do with gravity, then god is not God. However, if God include gravity in His blueprints, then He followed a set of measurable during creation. But as you say it is all hypothetical and comes down to personal beliefs.


Originally posted by rickymouse
After studying the motives of science and the way evidence is obtained and translated I have lost my respect for it and question the intent of it's evidence. I believe in god because I believe in structure that employs a direction of righteousness. I can't believe in anyone who says you need proof that what you are personally seeing is real.


Here is where I got lost. Righteousness is a moral character, not a scientific one. And it is a character attribute that I wish more people followed. Saying that one loses respect for science is like saying you lose respect for timekeeping or square foot measurements. Losing respect for scientists would be a different matter.

Science help us understand the world around us. No matter our perspective, Gods rules are immutable and infallible.


Once again, thank you everyone.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by HangTheTraitors
 


Thank you for saving me the time!


Exactly what he said, religion is not seeking answers and attributing god to things we cannot understand.

A cop out really...



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by HangTheTraitors
 


See OP I suggest that sccience spends a lot more time doing this to believers. Than visa versa.




Religion = man-made fairy-tales.


Then when confronted you get that deer in the head lights look and a, " Why would science care either way about religion ? " But I believe many have an agenda.

SnF for a great effort.
edit on 16-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
Here goes. Science=God, God=Science. Now what do I mean by this? I would like to go at this from a religious angle. Science people, please just watch for a few.

Okay, let's agree that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Fine. We take that as a fact of faith. Now here is where you need to do a little 'open minded' thinking. It all begins with that word - "created". So the question now is 'did God just slap some rocks together and pull a giraffe out of the ground by it's ears, or, did God set the Universe in motion based on a specific set of rules and organization?"

Now, moving on to just one aspect of the Universe we live in. Gravity. Gravity is a well known fact. It exists. It is measurable. Even though we don't really understand the force behind gravity, there is no denying its affects. So, if gravity is a constant in our Universe, and the Universe was created by God, does it not stand to reason that God then created gravity?

So to expand that argument out, God did not haphazardly throw the cosmos together with little or no understanding of how it all worked. He did so with a precise and exacting set of rules. The rules we know today as science. Science shows the miracle behind Gods all knowing ways.

Almost done. First we need to travel back a few hundred years. Back to when the Sun orbited the Earth. Back to when to knowing the workings of the human body was heresy. Back to when religion was 'more correct' than science. We know today how the solar system works, even though there was a time religion said otherwise. We now have medicine when at one time it was the work of the devil.

What I am trying to say is that by denying science you deny God and the order upon which he created the Universe. Just because you don't see how science works with God's word it doesn't mean they are incompatible. Unless you still believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, then maybe, just maybe, there could have been a big bang. Remember, just because a scientific theory does not fit in with your current religious view does not make it untrue, it just may mean that you need understand that God knew what He was doing when He created us all.

Please let me know your views on Science and God.


Current scientific knowledge does not equal the thruth since some of the ideas we are taught are clearly wrong but we do not have the whole story so science is a work in progress. All knowledge/wisdom views are a work in progress. Any views that cannot change according to observation of all humanity will not be right. People have different ecperiances of what reality is and for some who have expirianced spiritual things reality become very different that the normal indoctrinated reality.

I once hade a moment where I thought all is one. I am not sure if it is right for all to think of reality as that but from that viewpoint everything in this universe for me makes sense. From my reading of Buddha and Jesus they are from exactly the same source and talk about loss of ego and losing small mind and becoming connected to something that is all around you and you but the on-switch is within.

I do belive in chakras and synchronicity. It's hard not to when you are experiancing them every day. Their description might not be 100% explained but is close enought to my experiance. I belive everything that is of spirit changes the mind and the mind changes the body. Mind over matter. But spirit over mind.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Science today thinks it's god. Millions look to science as truth. Who is truth? God.
I remember last week's headline " It's Pro-Science to Abort Babies". See, it thinks it's god by indoctrinating it's own moral code. Also last week we see a science study from the University of Berkeley concluding that forced depopulation is an answer to supposed climate change. Again, science thinking it's god by indoctrinating it's own moral code. Science today is consumed with genetically modifying all forms of existing life, because in it's arrogance, it thinks it's god.

Science today is not God Almighty - but it THINKS that it is. Do you know that there are those who believe the law of gravity as we know it, is wrong? I'm a non-scientist, but I will not discount their arguments.

Accepting science as god is leading this world to destruction because millions believe it to be truth. But when that discipline starts to define morality, atheists cannot see what it's doing. Your views completely discount that most scientific laws are just theories which means that the laws appear to support known reactions but yet are subject to never ending adjustments as science encounters evidence of something else. Why do you think that science is this way? Because it is not God. God isn't an author of confusion, and yes, His universe operates on His laws. But because nearly all scientists are atheists, they do not seek Him for understanding in their endeavours. Many are too busy playing god. This isn't a bash against science, but is to highlight that science has taken on a role and importance in Godless minds - as God. We have gone from arguing whether or not the earth revolves around the sun or vise-versa to a dominion that dictates it's own creation story and moral ethics. Those two headlines angered many and tragically was supported by many. That is science today - a beast that is for profit, destroys nature and leads mankind to damnation because it is their Bible. Science is a "best guess" religion passed off as truth when in reality every other word is 'theory'. Science isn't therefore God.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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If you are going to say that science is used to measure what God created, then you must say that God was created, as well, right? Science is never finished. There's no end to the search for answers and more times than not, more questions are created in the process. The big bang is a theory but it's certainly not the be-all, end-all answer and every scientist knows that and there are plenty of scientists with theories of their own, far different than the big bang. But, "collectively" so-to-speak, It's the best answer they have so far, based on what they've learned to date. I don't believe it. The Universe is finite--it has an end, therefore it must have had a beginning but I don't believe that beginning was a single infinitely dense point. I also don't believe an intelligent being just snapped his fingers.

Religion says that God did it and that's it. There's no more searching for another answer or possibility and for believers, it's the only answer they need.

Science says, okay, maybe God did do it, but who or what is this god and how was it created or where did it come from? For scientists or science-minded folks, there are never enough answers.
edit on 16-6-2012 by CoherentlyConfused because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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A remarkable mathematical connection has been established between discoveries in theoretical physics and DNA research and the sacred geometries of western and eastern religions. So powerful and beautiful are these correspondences that they amount to convincing evidence for the existence of a transcendental intelligence Whose design for the universe is being unwittingly revealed by scientists without their realizing it and which has inspired mystical traditions for thousands of years. Spend the next year studying the huge volume of pioneering research at
smphillips.8m.com...
which reveals the interface between TRUE sacred geometries and scientific discoveries. Move beyond the uncertainties of words to the rigorous truth of mathematics.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein


Offtopic:

Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design



edit on 18-6-2012 by iIuminaIi because: (no reason given)
extra DIV
extra DIV
extra DIV



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by iIuminaIi
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein


"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Eiensten

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." - Albert Einsten

"My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly." - Albert Einsten


Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design



A bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say? Context?

In this very dishonestly created and edited (cherry picked) creationist clip, Dawkins was speculating on the very unlikely event of a form of "directed panspermia", not intelligent design. He makes it very clear repeatedly that "no one knows" how life originated.


edit on 19-6-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by ObservingTheWorld
Here goes. Science=God, God=Science.

Okay, let's agree that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".





No, lets not.

God= Irrelevant to science and always will be until he is shown to exist.

Though if some form of "god" does exist in some way, he certainly won't be the anthropomorphic maniac of modern religion. Otherwise we would have the worst inmate of them all running the asylum, wouldn't be good.





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