I talked to someone who didn't believe that gravity exists outside of earth.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Yeah, but try to explain this:

yup, each and every thing that has mass has gravity. The forces of gravity are at work all through the universe by the mass that exists in it.

...to a Purple "Chiten" ( or even, a Chicken, maybe?? )


Point is...the sad truth is, when it comes to logic, science and reason, trying to explain the aforementioned aspects to a person who is blinded by a "religious faith" mindset? It's about as easy as teaching calculus to my cat.....a cat that still hasn't yet grasped basic mathematics to begin with!


Wow! Tough room.......

Originally posted by Chargeit
I was trying to explain to a friend at work that you could believe in the bible and still allow for aliens.

No actually you can't. The bible pretty much is cut and dry in some aspects. God made the world this way. Created man this way. Man is basically the center of creation. It would be incongruous for Aliens to suddenly appear in the popular aspect of being vastly superior/intelligent and let alone unlikely they would support one religious worldview and not another - only to cause more conflict.

God does not lie, it is impossible, but here he has conveniently omitted very important info. To me that is tantamount to lying. And to forestall, well here's some vague text from the Old Testament that God was giving us a *nudge nudge wink wink*. . . yeah that wouldn't be how God works and is just desperate rationalizing.

Aliens appearing and being athiest or worse (imo) supporting a certain religion will only cause more conflict imo. "Can't enter the kingdom of heaven except through me" and all that - the devil is in the details as they say.

My 2 cents... What is gravity?

Gravity is caused by warping of space, space can be warped by mass, mass can be created with objects... Sun, Moon, Planets

Right or Wrong?

Just had to put it out there...

Tell your friend to look at the next full moon and tell him the reason it looks like swiss cheese is because of gravity. I bet he likes cheese so he will related, and hopefully learn.

reply to post by Chargeit


The good news is that your friend is actually, a rather negligible, minority. Most believe (or rather know, I suppose) what the universe is like in general. There are few people who dismiss the idea of life on other worlds. Almost the entire scientific community acknowledges and defends this.

Where you will find the most ignorance regarding space will be in places like religion, fringe culture, or odd anti-scientific belief systems. And being they are very defensive, opinionated and zealous you will always likely notice them before anyone else.

Originally posted by PluPerfect
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Yeah, but try to explain this:

yup, each and every thing that has mass has gravity. The forces of gravity are at work all through the universe by the mass that exists in it.

...to a Purple "Chiten" ( or even, a Chicken, maybe??

)


Point is...the sad truth is, when it comes to logic, science and reason, trying to explain the aforementioned aspects to a person who is blinded by a "religious faith" mindset? It's about as easy as teaching calculus to my cat.....a cat that still hasn't yet grasped basic mathematics to begin with!

Wow! Tough room.......

edit on 13-6-2012 by PluPerfect because: (no reason given)

I dunno, I'm a purple chicken (with a speech impediment=chiten) and I got it just fine!
Hey! I can tutor your cat!!

Yeah, it really is hard getting past the walls they put up and helping them understand that it doesn't "undermine their faith"

Originally posted by igor_ats

Originally posted by Chargeit
I was trying to explain to a friend at work that you could believe in the bible and still allow for aliens.

No actually you can't. The bible pretty much is cut and dry in some aspects. God made the world this way. Created man this way. Man is basically the center of creation. It would be incongruous for Aliens to suddenly appear in the popular aspect of being vastly superior/intelligent and let alone unlikely they would support one religious worldview and not another - only to cause more conflict.

God does not lie, it is impossible, but here he has conveniently omitted very important info. To me that is tantamount to lying. And to forestall, well here's some vague text from the Old Testament that God was giving us a *nudge nudge wink wink*. . . yeah that wouldn't be how God works and is just desperate rationalizing.

Aliens appearing and being athiest or worse (imo) supporting a certain religion will only cause more conflict imo. "Can't enter the kingdom of heaven except through me" and all that - the devil is in the details as they say.

The bible is one of the most metaphorical pieces of literature that ever existed. Those who claim to believe in it word for word, turn around in the next sentence and say "but it means blah blah blah" right after they had said just before that it was infallible. They want to claim it is to be taken verbatem yet try to interpret it in the same breath. It can't be both and they're going to have to pick one and stick with it.
If it is verbatem, it contradicts itself, therefore it isn't true.
It has to be metaphoric or it contradicts itself, so they need to learn logic in order to understand the metaphors. They don't want to put forth the effort for that so they jump back to it being verbatem and destroy their argument completely.... except for those just like them who aren't capable of logic either.

It's not so much a problem with the bible as it is with the people who thump on it instead of reading and understanding it.

Try showing them the two different creation stories in Genesis and how they differ (chapter 1 and chapter 2)... they start stumbling over their own tongue.

reply to post by Chargeit


Ask your friend why he doesn't believe the Bible when it says point blank with no ambiguity at all in hundreds of scriptures that the earth is not moving one iota while the rest of the universe revolves around it every 24 hours.

Or does he?

news.bbc.co.uk...

Writing in the Vatican newspaper, the astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, said intelligent beings created by God could exist in outer space.

Father Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome, is a respected scientist who collaborates with universities around the world.

The search for forms of extraterrestrial life, he says, does not contradict belief in God.

This may help some of them come to terms with it... but maybe not. The fundamentalist evangelicals are usually anti-Catholic too.

reply to post by Chargeit


My advice to you would be,
enjoy your friends company but avoid coversations that involve science and physics,
because , unfortunatly the religous bibles are written by men for men, to control and blind our speedy development.
in the realisation that the we, the controlled may one day obtain the knowledge of technology that would overthrow thier greedy control. for this reason anyone who follows the instructions given in those books of any religion are narrow minded and limiting thier own develpment.,. all of the great reasons to follow the bible can generated through self morals.
No genuine person needs a rule or guideline to follow in living life,.
yes thier may have been a god, but theirs no proof to say he wasnt a man or an alien.
if a man wrote the bible, but he lived on another planet, would that make him an alien or a man or perhaps a god ?
martian rocks spawned life on this planet after destroying the dinosaurs, so really we are not from earth,
all animals are children of the stars and thats where we will end up, if our 'gods' feel we are are ready
take care
lostpanther

Something about gravity that most people don't know, every single particle in the universe has a gravitational force on every other particle regardless of distance, which means a single atom 13 billion light years away is actually exerting a gravitational force on you.

Originally posted by bl4ke360
Something about gravity that most people don't know, every single particle in the universe has a gravitational force on every other particle regardless of distance, which means a single atom 13 billion light years away is actually exerting a gravitational force on you.

Not entirely true, but close enough

everything exerts gravity, but most of the gravitational forces are countered by other forces before they ever reach you... but I know what you're saying and on the level of the general public, it's adequate

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by bl4ke360
Something about gravity that most people don't know, every single particle in the universe has a gravitational force on every other particle regardless of distance, which means a single atom 13 billion light years away is actually exerting a gravitational force on you.

Not entirely true, but close enough

everything exerts gravity, but most of the gravitational forces are countered by other forces before they ever reach you... but I know what you're saying and on the level of the general public, it's adequate

Whether or not a force is countered by other forces doesn't mean the force ceases to exist, it just means the net force is changed.

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by bl4ke360
Something about gravity that most people don't know, every single particle in the universe has a gravitational force on every other particle regardless of distance, which means a single atom 13 billion light years away is actually exerting a gravitational force on you.

Not entirely true, but close enough

everything exerts gravity, but most of the gravitational forces are countered by other forces before they ever reach you... but I know what you're saying and on the level of the general public, it's adequate

Whether or not a force is countered by other forces doesn't mean the force ceases to exist, it just means the net force is changed.

yes, exactly

Originally posted by TopherWayne
Wow, your friend is a moron and has a fundamentally flawed understanding on the cosmos. I have a friend like that as well & learned there is really nothing you can do to change their minds so I just let their ignorance be.

I know some people like this. Its sad that people completely turn their minds off because of religious interpretations.

Originally posted by bl4ke360
Something about gravity that most people don't know, every single particle in the universe has a gravitational force on every other particle regardless of distance, which means a single atom 13 billion light years away is actually exerting a gravitational force on you.

That is crazy. I figured the depression in spacetime due to the presence of mass would eventually become flat again, but you're saying that the depression in spacetime cause by the presence of any mass will effect all of spacetime and that the whole thing will be curved. I'm going to have to change the way I think of the universe now.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
The bible is one of the most metaphorical pieces of literature that ever existed. Those who claim to believe in it word for word, turn around in the next sentence and say "but it means blah blah blah" right after they had said just before that it was infallible. They want to claim it is to be taken verbatem yet try to interpret it in the same breath. It can't be both and they're going to have to pick one and stick with it.
If it is verbatem, it contradicts itself, therefore it isn't true.
It has to be metaphoric or it contradicts itself, so they need to learn logic in order to understand the metaphors. They don't want to put forth the effort for that so they jump back to it being verbatem and destroy their argument completely.... except for those just like them who aren't capable of logic either.

It's not so much a problem with the bible as it is with the people who thump on it instead of reading and understanding it.

Try showing them the two different creation stories in Genesis and how they differ (chapter 1 and chapter 2)... they start stumbling over their own tongue.

edit on 13-6-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)

I don't have a problem with God or the Bible, but Christians really piss me off with their willfull ignorance sometimes. You are right though. The Bible does have to be metaphorical to be true.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Chargeit

 

There's no gravity in space yes. "But!" There's gravity on other masses in space (planets most likely said planets.)

Seems you don't understand it better than that "someone".

There is gravity everywhere. On a planet or not. No matter where you go in the universe you will be under the influence of gravity, from somewhere.

Not sure what it has to do with Aliens and UFOs though.

edit on 6/13/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Gravity in a nut shell is displaced space. But when u have someone who thinks its only on earth. Saying its around other planets works.

What it has to do with Aliens and UFOs? The fact that with them thinking there's no gravity or possibility of ozone outside of earth then how could aliens have developed outside of earth?




Oh! I don't need a masters degree in physics to have a good concept of how gravity works. So yea I couldn't write a paper about it. At least I've got a good concept of how it works and understand that its tied to a objects mass and the space it displaces not some mystical force only present on earth.

reply to post by Chargeit


I bet your friend is one of those guys that believe an elephant is bigger than the moon....

Please ask him this question... better lay it out as a multiply choice...
When Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed Apollo 11 on the moon, what stopped the Lunar landing Module from floating back out into space?
Was it
(A) super glue
(B) gaffa tape
(C) bubble gum
(D) suction cups
(E) gravity
(F) Other... please specify

Originally posted by LexiconV
reply to post by Chargeit

 

I bet your friend is one of those guys that believe an elephant is bigger than the moon....

Please ask him this question... better lay it out as a multiply choice...
When Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed Apollo 11 on the moon, what stopped the Lunar landing Module from floating back out into space?
Was it
(A) super glue
(B) gaffa tape
(C) bubble gum
(D) suction cups
(E) gravity
(F) Other... please specify

(G) The gravity of the sound stage its sitting on.

heh. Nah. I think we've been to the moon just had to throw that out there.