The "Bible Code"

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posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Praetorius

Hi Praetorius (the name is lit. Latin for 'a has-been'; from Lat. "praeter" , 'already') !

You wrote

QUOTE

“SIGISMUNDUS:

Hmmm.

Thanks for this, I will definitely have to look further into it as I wasn't aware.

May post back to you on this after looking into it.

Do you happen to know offhand what the Masoretes used as their source material, as I know they guarded the transmission and transcription very carefully after that?

Also, claim of no original source text available being considered, this would seem to tie back well into easy confirmation or denial one way or the other by solid and consistent cross-checks against a range of other texts.

Perhaps ALL the disagreeing source of the Hebrew scriptures are valid and encode separate information?

Otherwise, I can't see this debate having gone on this long if any text will replicate the same results (which seem to have been validated at least as regards the Hebrew scriptures themselves).”

UNQUOTE

Take a quick Dekko at some of the TEXTUAL differences within the supposedly ancient Torah of the Jews, see the CONSONANTAL Differences between the Samaritan Pentateuch’s (SP) Consonantal Text of the TORAH (from c. 400 BCE) and the much later Masoretic Text (MT - from c. 900 CE; based on an earlier text from c. 165 BCE) - these are just a couple from HUNDREDS of like-examples of differences between just TWO sets of the FIVE versions of the Torah out there in the wild in antiquity:

In view of there being just ONE letter (Hebrew consonant) difference in the verisons, then any perceived (i.e. imagined) PaleoHebrew Torah CODE dissolves into thin air = because any ‘modern reconstruction’ of the Torah consonantal text involves picking and choosing between contradictory MSS ‘witnesses’.

MT = proto Masoretic (Babylonian) Consonantal Text at Qumran ( c. 165 BCE ; vowels added 960 CE) ;
SP = Samaritan Pentateuch Consonantal Text (c. 400 BCE)

e.g. MT וְחַיְתוֹ־אֶרֶץ v. SP וחית הארץ (Gen 1:24) =
e.g. MT אל תירא מֵרְדָה v. SP מרדת (Gen 46:3)
e.g. MT ארור אפם (“cursed be their anger”) v. SP to אדיר אפם (“mighty was their anger” = (Gen 49:7)
e.g. MT ואברכה v. SP ואברך (Gen 12:3)
e.g. MT ויולד changed 33 times to ויוליד in Gen 5 and 11 in the SP

e.g. MT למַס עבד v. SP למוס עבד (Gen 49:15),

e.g. MT בלטיהם v. SP בלהטיהם (Exod 8:14)


No single uncontaminated text, no Code. And therefore No Cogent CODE Argument either !




posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 

No single uncontaminated text, no Code. And therefore No Cogent CODE Argument either !

Perhaps entirely correct. Perhaps not. As I've said before, something I will have to look back into.

And again, as I've said previous - to paraphrase grossly: the proof is in the pudding. If the evidence is there for the bible code, source-text differences or no (or perhaps applying to ALL source texts), while not applying to control texts...then we have a valid phenomena.

I don't understand the debate beyond that, honestly. If there exists something in some texts that should not be there, and does not exist in other texts outside those claimed - then it is genuine.

If it exists in all texts, and not just those claimed - then there is no phenomena. It seems simple enough to me. If we have access to the texts that prove the matter one way or the other, then let's just see some reference to them here. If we don't then let's just call it a draw and likely aberration that is meaningless.

Honestly - quibble over source documents - that's not the matter. The phenomena is the matter. Let's prove it or disprove it already. In theory, it doesn't sound like a difficult matter either way.

I'm surprised it's dragged on this long already.



posted on Jun, 7 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Sigismundus
 


I'd imagine he named himself after the Praetorian guardsmen. Wild guess...



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by TheFogHorn
 


ׁשַעַּגרַה

What a stupid website. The "Mountain of God" spoken of in the Bible is already known. Jabal al Lawz in Saudi Arabia and it's not a volcano. Also, that's some magical volcano to appear as a cloud by day and pilar of fire by night for FORTY YEARS in the wilderness.
edit on 7-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


You'd better be careful what you call stupid unless you are 100% sure it is stupid or YOU will one day look stupid. And aren't you supposed to be the moral one? Does it say in your Bible to insult people you don't agree with?

The mountain of god is not known but guessed at. Jabal al Lawz IS volcanic. When it last erupted is not known. It is not definately the mountain of god. What is pretty certain is that the mountain of god was in North-western Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the most volcanic place on earth so there will be many other possibilities. Mecca, by the way, became Mecca because it was the center of volcanism.

Does a volcano not look like a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night? Would wandering people, who'd never seen a volcano before, not describe it exactly that way? The volcano acted like a beacon. It did not move but the Hebrews did, giving the illusion the pillar was moving.....as it would from some distance away.

The Hebrews wandered around the Sinai and Midian (Arabia) for forty years. The pillar was not there guiding them for forty years! It guided them up to the Red Sea....the Suez Canal. The pillar was in front of them as they walked directly towards it (while they walked up to the top of the canal with the canal to their right) and then it was behind them when they were on the other side of the canal walking south. The pillar did not move.....they changed directions.

Exodus 13:21 By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night.

Exodus 14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

And all the 'god said this' and 'god said that' is made up story filler.

The pillar of smoke by day and the pillar of smoke by night was a volcano...either the Santorini eruption (which caused the ten plagues of Egypt) or another eruption along the rift between the Sinai and Egypt...triggered in a domino effect by Santorini.


ohmyvolcano.blogspot.com...
edit on 8-6-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical

Hi Not

I was just watching the other day Jimmy Whale's film from 1935 ('The Bride of Frankenstein') where there is a demented old professor character called 'Doktor Praetorius' played by the brilliant British stage actor Ernest Thesiger - the name of course is deliberate since he was 'booted out' of the University 'for knowing too much...'booted is the word, my Dear Baron...."

Naturally, since, Dr 'Praetorius' means 'Doctor Has-Been', the choice of the Latin was deliberate in the film,

That is all...

The Praetorian Guardsmen of course in ancient Rome guarded the Holy Persons of the Divine Caesars, the 'sons of the gods' - since they also acted as High Priests in the Roman Temples -


Curiously, speaking of the 'sons of the gods' being kings and Emperors of Rome, the 2nd canonical Greek gospel 'according to Mark' whoever he was - has a Centurion character spouting some nonsense in Greek (though obvioiusly not a Praetorian Guard Centurion !) which is copied by the 1st canonical Greek gospel (according to 'Matthew' whoever he was) something along the lines of 'Amen, this was a son of [the] gods' etc.

i.e. a righteous or innocent person - one imagines if the Centurion were a gentile god-fearer he might have said something more like 'this man was a son of god' i.e. a righteous person.

In the 3rd canonical Greek gospel ('according to Luke' whoever he was), the Greek words placed into the mouth of the Centurion figure was 'behold, this was an innocent man' without any nonsense about sons of gods.

Makes one wonder about what the gospel writers were trying to say, exactly !!!!
edit on 8-6-2012 by Sigismundus because: stuttering compuuutttterrrrrr



posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by SickeningTruths
 


Careful, there is a GREAT disinfo structure about today to discredit the codes from the same folks who discovered them to begin with. The Jews. They found the Name "Yeshua" plastered from one page to the other from the front to the back and now they spend an absurd amount of money to discredit the codes.
edit on 5-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


I too noticed this independently. I was watching a documentary where they were talking to the Jews who created the software and they were pushing the idea about Elijah is the messiah... but then I was watching youtube videos made by regular joes like you and me, and they found Yeshua along with "the messiah" (one video three times it said this!), and other very relevant words encoded in.... THE TORAH!!

Gee, I wonder why the Jews refuse to even mention this!? And if they have been confronted by this, what are they doing!? Why will they not admit that the messiah has come and they were wrong??? It's OK to be wrong, so long as you know the truth now.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by 08051962


Hi 085

Which text type of the supposedly ancient torah of the Jews were these persons using, might I ask? The unpointed Consonantal text of the Samaritan Pentateuch (c. 400 BCE)? The unpointed Consonantal text of the proto Masoretic text (c. 165 BCE)? The unpointed paleoHebrew versions used as an UrText (or Vorlag) by Symmachus or Aquila that were found among the Dead Sea Scroll fragments in Caves 1-11 (c. BCE 300 to c. 68 CE)? Or the unpointed Paleo Hebrew version used as an UrText (i.e. Vorlag) by Theodotion c. 140 CE, you know the text family version used by the writer(s) of the socalled Book of Revelation (aka the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Levite, whoever he was).

Were they using the Hebrew consonantal Vorlag of the Torah used by the LXX Greek Septuaginta translators out of Alexandria c. 250 BCE?

Don't tell me they were using the later pointed (vowelled) version pushed by mediaeval Rebbes of the Masoretic Text c. 960 CE e.g. the Leningrad Codex !!!!!

I only ask because there is up to 21% of a difference between these five versions of the text of the supposedly ancient Torah of the Jews if you count letter by letter. There are also the Aramaic Targums which show approx 31% of a consonantal difference when it is translated back into paleo from Aramaic word for word and letter for letter

If there is NO SINGLE consonantal text of the Torah in existence, how can a COHERENT CODE emerge - especially with specific words like YEHOSHUA or MESHIA'q ?

Presumably you would have to settle on a firm text (letter perfect) for the Torah with a firm set of Consonants without any changes whatsoever at all - otherwise NO coherent Code (in any language !) could ever hope to emerge - and NO SINGLE VERSION of the Torah exists as completely and utterly 'authoritative' - as the Dead Sea Scrolls copies (different text versions were laying happily side by side in their dusty caves) abundantly prove over and over and over and over again by close-examination of each letter on a page - several versions existed in antiquity, and the earliest Christians quoted not only randomly from Theodotion's text family, but sometimes Aquilla's and at other times Syhmmachus' text type was quoted and other time, various Targum paraphrase families ...especially e.g. in the 1st canonical Greek Gospel 'according to Matthew' whoever he was...but whoever he was he had access to earlier text types of the Torah than the later Masoretic version used by Protestants and Rabinnic Jews today...and even earlier text types than the Hebrew Vorlag circulating around Alexandria, which was the one used for the Greek Septuaginta (c. 250 BCE)

Just asking, is all.... because, naturally, no coherent text...no coherent code. It is a mathematical certainty on that point !!!!

edit on 19-6-2012 by Sigismundus because: stuttttttttttttering commmputterrrrrrrrr



posted on Aug, 1 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Aug, 2 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by SickeningTruths
 


I've read all the Bible Codes by Michael Dorsin.... Except for #3. I'm shocked it's out because I waited for years and could not figure out what the story was on the delay of this book and will now have to re-search and see what they're saying now that it's out.

Bible code 1 was interesting and really got you thinking and then in 2 he started getting all alien on us....

For some reason 3 was being held back and being that I like a good story I would like to find out why...
And now...here it is...



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Some have called the Almighty: Lord of the Codes...



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by SickeningTruths
 


The best and most scientific site I know is

www.biblecodedigest.com...

Drosnin is . . . welll . . . charitably . . . largely a farce . . . though he popularized the topic.

His "codes" are too short to be attributable to more than chance.

The current state of the art and the science is that a code needs to be 30 characters/letters long, or more, to be statistically significant beyond chance. Drosnin's stuff is much shorter.

Shorter stuff can be found in any long text.

The two mathemetician debunkers were caught essentially lying. They are worse farces than Drosnin. They have been proven emphatically wrong to the point of it's absurd to give them a microgram of credibility.

The ISAIAH codes documented on the biblecodedigest site are emphatically and extremely beyond chance so far it's mind boggling to even conceptualize how far beyond chance it is.

I think the Biblecodedigest folks are wise and accurate to be wary . . . even negative about

Bible codes as prophecy.

1. Even many of the surface text prophecies in the Bible are very cryptic and became clear only after they happened. For example: For centuries, Jewish scholars had no answer for why there seemed to be two different Messiahs yet which were clearly one. One the Messiah comes as a suffering servant. Then He comes as a conquering King. Now we see more clearly, how accurate the suffering servant prophecies were.

2. The Bible Codes are also usually mystifyingly cryptic or puzzling in their wording. After the fact, they become clear.

3. The Codes can be from VARIOUS PERSPECTIVES--even satan's or an evil ruler's. Expecting a lying ruler or satan to speak truth in a prophecy would be fool hardy. And, it's not always clear what perspective the Code is 'speaking from.'

Therefore, it's exceedingly hazardous if not utterly foolish to use the Codes as any remotely dependable prophetic source.

I do slightly disagree with the BCD folks. I think there may be some prophetic codes arise in the future which will be clearer and fulfilled to the letter clearly. But that's just my opinion.

I believe that the codes as science and art are still evolving . . . in the sense that experts are learning more and more what works in terms of statistical analysis and what doesn't.

There are also some codes which individually do not reach the level of statistical significance beyond chance--yet which are clustered together in maybe a dozen or more smaller, shorter codes around a verse in the surface text which has the same or similar keywords. This does not happen in nonBiblical sources. I don't think they've yet devised a solid way to calculate the statistics that pleases everyone. Yet, SOMETHING is clearly going on with those codes.

It's a fascinating subject.

Christ's Deity and life etc. are affirmed very explicitly in the codes. So are many other prophetic statements in Scripture regarding END TIMES themes.

IIRC, Some agnostic Jewish scholars have become Christians because of the codes.

Folks who truly have a heart to know the truth could profit from a thoughtful and fair-minded exploration of the best science involved.

There's a lot of flakier junk that goes under the general title "Bible Codes" but which does not come close to statistical significance. It is blather on the order of Drosnin's junk by folks who don't seem to understand much about the math involved. They come up with cutesy garbage and pontificate at length as though they'd found something when they have found nothing.

I personally believe the codes may have something to do with the Scripture about Daniel being told to seal up the book, that it was for the time of the end. Maybe not--that could well be a different thing entirely.

However, it is the END TIMES and only with the advent of the computer has Bible Code analysis become truly practical.

Isaac Newton believed there were Bible Codes and IIRC, he experimented somewhat in the direction of what we have now. He spent more time studying the Bible than he did his scientific studies. He had his priorities right.

I believe the codes are a way of God documenting, affirming, proving that The Bible is essentially accurate in what He wanted to convey to man in the centuries of its existence.

Blessings,



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by SickeningTruths

So....long story short...since there were at least FIVE different text versions (i.e. consonantal sets of copies) of the TORAH prior to Javneh (ce 90, when only ONE version was decided upon among so many versions in circuclation at the time, i.e. the Babylonian Text Family which later became the Masoretic text) there is NO WAY IN HELL that you can EVER come up with a meaningful CODE from the TORAH - there is NO SINGLE CONSONANTAL TEXT VERSION of the Torah - only several versions - which is one of the reasons why the Rebbes and the Priests and the Ministers DID NOT WANT the Dead Sea Scroll versions of the bible copies to be published - but, alas...now we have the Internet....so, too bad for them !!!

Either way, No Coherent Text, ergo...No Coherent Code....FULL STOP.



NONSENSE.

You seem to think that God would not have the capacity to work around all that.

Certainly God would have known the version that would have become the most consistently respected and used by the bulk of the Jewish scholars etc.

It's even conceivable that He--being omniscient--could have well established meaningful statistically significant codes in all the versions.

Sounds to me like your notions of God are too small.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 

The Codes have been checked many times and found wanting. In essence, you can find any message about anything you like -- the DISproof that they use is that if it was true, you couldn't find lies in there, and you couldn't find these same truths with other texts.

(link to one of the summary articles)

And here are some of the "negative codes" (Bible codes that contradict other Bible codes) www.nmsr.org...



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Byrd,

I'm a bit shocked at your assertion.

You are merely displaying that you have not done sufficient homework.

The 30+ character codes documented at

www.biblecodedigest.com...

are utterly unique.

There has NEVER been ANYTHING CLOSE to such codes found in any other text but the Bible.

NEVER.

So called codes of 8 or less characters can be found in any long text. They are not the least bit significant at all.

Even so called codes of 10-15 characters become very to extremely rare.

When one gets up to the level of the codes found in Isaiah--particularly as related to Isaiah 53--there is absolutely NO SCIENTIFIC, NO MATHEMATIC ARGUMENT LEFT.

And your assertions are proven utterly wrong.

In terms of some Bible Codes contradicting others . . . are we talking about authentic long character codes or not?

Even there, as documented at the above link, the authentic codes appear to come from DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES--even satan's or some other evil leader's perspective. Certainly such a perspective will contradict a Godly perspective. The Codes are merely documenting some of the END TIMES perspectives that will be abroad in the land. OF COURSE some will contradict others.

Here's a link to the article documenting some of the Isaiah 53 codes . . . up to 75 Hebrew characters long:

www.biblecodedigest.com...



Original Search Terms
Who Is the Messiah?

Judas

Son of a Virgin

His Spirit on a Tree

Jesus Reigns

Have Hemmed Me In

Angel of the Lord

Resurrection of Jesus

Peter

Jesus Is My Name

Presented in the tables are 201 codes ranging from 3 to 75 (Hebrew) letters in length. More than half, 131 out of the 201, are 8 letters or longer.

Nathan Jacobi, Ph.D., parsed and translated the codes.


Messiah or Suffering (sin-bearing) Servant?

. . .




You cannot find any remotely similar code in ANY other text. Period. Hasn't happened.

Here's a link to a great article on the top 10 BIBLE CODE MYTHS:

www.biblecodedigest.com...




#1

The Myth:

No Bible codes are real.


The Truth:

Some ELS phenomena must be real because they are far too improbable to be due to chance. Our What No Code Skeptic Can Find page has links to articles that cover a number of examples.


#2

The Myth:

Virtually all scientists believe Bible codes are bogus.


The Truth:


Suppose you only include scientists who have spent a significant amount of time investigating the potential validity of the phenomenon of Bible Codes? You get the following comparison:

{table is at the link--I'll paste in the data here}

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .BELIEVE PHENOMENON _ _ _ _ _ _ BELIEVE IT IS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *IS* REAL . . . . . . . . . . . . _ _ _ _ _ _ NOT REAL

RESEARCHERS WITH PHD's . . . . . . . . . . . Haralick, Jacobi, Katz . . _ _ _ _ _ _ Ingermanson
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rips, Satinover . . . . . . ._ _ _ _ _ _ McKay, Simon
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Spielberg

RESEARCHERS WITH STRONG
TECHNICAL QUALIFICATIONS WHO ARE
NOT PHD's . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Acres, Gans, Shak, . . . _ _ _ _ _ _ Thomas
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sherman Witztum

To the best of my knowledge, none of the scientists who believe that the phenomenon is not real have devoted [color=6699FF]more than a fraction of the time taken by any of the scientists who believe the phenomenon is real.


#3

The Myth:

Since Drosnin has been discredited, all purported Bible codes have been discredited.


The Truth:

Drosnin's examples are trivial, and have been repudiated, as they should be. Code skeptics have basically ignored the substantive findings of many qualified code researchers who have presented highly improbable findings in the past several years.





.
edit on 25/11/2012 by BO XIAN because: an addition
edit on 25/11/2012 by BO XIAN because: other additions



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Here's a good video (part 1) on Bible Code FAQs by Sherman who wrote:

THE BIBLE CODE BOMBSHELL.

www.youtube.com...

Part 2 is here:

www.youtube.com...

Other videos are available from those youtube pages.

Here is a link to a number of

SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH PAPERS on the topic:

www.biblecodedigest.com...

First one:

www.biblecodedigest.com...




Reality of Bible Codes Strongly Confirmed by Extensive Additional Research
By Richard E. Sherman, FCAS, MAAA, and Nathan Jacobi, Ph.D.



Abstract

In the article Non-Random Equidistant Letter Sequence Extensions in the Hebrew Bible published in the May/June 2010 digest, we summarized the results of 4½ years of BCD's most recent research. The specific findings from this research were published in BCD articles from November/December 2006 through March/April 2010. A rigorous analysis of these findings conclusively supported the rejection of the null hypothesis that Bible codes can be explained by random causes. The phenomenon cannot be explained by chance. This conclusion was based on a statistically significant population of 1,064 observations of initial search term ELSs that were examined for the possible existence of extensions in good Hebrew. A total of 475 extended ELSs were discovered in the course of this investigation.



Here's a wonderful video with

L.A. MARZULLI author, lecturer

Mentions the 911 codes found in a tight matrix.

Professor Eliyahu RIPS;

HAROLD GANS 29 years working with the Dept of Defense as a professional code breaker

RABBI GLAZERSON

MARSHALL MASTERS

PROFESSOR ROBERT HARALICK City University of New York

"Cursed is Bin Laden Revenge Belongs to the Messiah"

. . . the Great Rabbi's over the centuries--The Great Experiment--their names were encoded in Genesis.

. . . Complete global financial collapse . . .

2012 warm-up period . . . main events 2013 . . .



www.youtube.com...


edit on 25/11/2012 by BO XIAN because: an addition



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Byrd
 


Here's a good video (part 1) on Bible Code FAQs


Thank you, but I don't watch videos. I do read papers and websites, though.

I've done some study on them, actually, and worked with the software. If you set up the sequences just right, you can create all sorts of texts (many of them are pure nonsense.) I am convinced, however, by the long list of negative codes and "after the fact predictions" that there is no substance to the Bible Codes.

One other point: if they were true (including all the negative ones) this means that mankind does not have free will (because it would be predetermined which texts survive and which ones would be used by the coders to create the code.)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Byrd
 


Here's a good video (part 1) on Bible Code FAQs


Thank you, but I don't watch videos. I do read papers and websites, though.

I've done some study on them, actually, and worked with the software. If you set up the sequences just right, you can create all sorts of texts (many of them are pure nonsense.) I am convinced, however, by the long list of negative codes and "after the fact predictions" that there is no substance to the Bible Codes.


People have been UTTERLY CONVINCED of all manner of things--even in the name of "science."

The issue in this case is what does the science show. And the very VERY SOLID SCIENCE is wholesale against your assertions. Perhaps I'll post some more links to the scientific papers later. I'm tired tonight and not likely to do it tonight.

My impression from reading your brief note about dinking with the software is that you have not read even close to sufficiently about the length of valid codes and certainly not much, if anything about the extensive Isaiah 53 codes. It's your loss. The evidence is emphatically conclusive. Denying yourself adequate and sufficient exposure to the scientific studies on the topic may be comforting to your biases . . . IF . . . you pretend, still, sufficiently strongly . . . that you really have investigated the matter, though you mostly haven't anywhere near adequately, imho.





One other point: if they were true (including all the negative ones) this means that mankind does not have free will (because it would be predetermined which texts survive and which ones would be used by the coders to create the code.)


Not at all. It merely might mean that your notions of free will and determinism are askew from the reality.

Dr Walter Martin had the best metaphor/allegory on that issue that I know of . . .

Imagine a computer as large as the known universe. In that computer was programmed all the possible choices of all the creatures in the known universe with all the probabilities assigned to each etc.

However, THE PROGRAMMER also has choice and can adjust the program to achieve HIS WILL--REGARDLESS of the free will experience at the level of the individual organisms.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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After digging through the codes and finding information specific to only myself and how it was presented, I've determined that the bible is like some sort of sophisticated winzip file. While a winzip file can be opened with a text editor, there's usually lots of garbage around the readable text, and this is what a bible codes search return looks like. I looked up my name and within the matrix of letters were words pertaining to my life specifically. Therefore a method must exist to unzip the code from the regular text. It would undoubtably create a huge database of text once it was mathematically unwound. I have a crazy idea for unravelling it using an Ulam Spiral and looking for a message hidden along the prime diagonals that the spiral is known for, this message may tell you how to unlock the bible codes.
edit on 25-11-2012 by CAPT PROTON because: formatting



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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Just to add in here, ancient Hebrew unlike what they tell you, is not made up of words like english. Each "word" is actually a group of glyphs and each glyph has a concept attached to it. (Paleo has the idea but they have misunderstood the symbolics they attached to them)
So a word is actually a description of the action of what the word is describing. If you change one glyph in the word set, it completely changes the word. Modern scholars will not believe this, but whatever.
On top of this each set, has a built in check. If you split the word up correctly with its prefix and suffix concepts, you will get an action. split it up differently and you will get the outcome.
An example is the name Abram. In Hebrew it is A B R M using the sounds for the Hebrew letters, AB means to gave seed, RM means to mass. Split it a different way ABR means to populate and the M means those. Third way A means to begin BR means to produce M means those.
1. To have seed to mass
2. To populate those
3. To begin to produce those
Abram is the guy promised to be a father of a great nation. No matter how you split the name, it gives the concept. Using the correct translation method, every word in Hebrew can be checked like this. If it doesn't work, its because it has been changed.

Material above excerpt from www.thechronicleproject.org...



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by winterkill

Hi Winter--

The main problem with finding any kind of CODE in any text is the coherence of a single text. The Hebrew Scriptures did not begin to get written down until the time of Ezra and his 5 Scribes (c. 440 BCE) and even then different versions of what was written down proliferated in different areas at different times, so that by the time one gets to the Dead Sea Scroll material found locked up in time capsule caves (1-11) at Qumran (with texts copied out between BCE 300 to 68 CE when they were locked up), there existed more than FIVE different versions of the Torah alone - each different from one another by as much as 20% if you count consonant for consonant and word for word in a column. The differences is much greater for non-Torah writings such as the Prophets (e.g. the book of Jeremiah, which is 13 chapters longer in the later Masoretic Text version of Leningrad c. 960 CE)

At least two separate text versions of the supposedly ancient Torah of the Jews was an ancient Paleo-Hebrew consonantal text used as a Vorlag (underlay) to the Greek LXX Septuaginta (c. 200 BCE) found in Caves 1-11 at Qumran ( i.e. in rock caves near Jericho overlooking Seccacah) rediscovered in Nov 1946.

These Vorlag Hebrew consonantal text underlays to the Greek Alexandrian LXX Septuaginta text families are widely DIFFERENT from the Samaritan Pentateuch (c. 400 BCE) or the later consonantal protoMasoretic family which was vowelled in Leningrad c. 960 and is used as 'authoritative' Hebrew Scriptures by modern Rabinnic Jews and Protestant Christians today as 'holy scripture' today, whereas the Roman Catholic Church uses translations from the Latin Vulgate which is based on one version of the Greek Alexandrian LXX Septuaginta.

There was also a DIFFERENT Vorlag Hebrew consonantal text underlay used by Symmachus's Greek translation c. 130 CE which was different from the protoMasoretic version and also different from the Hebrew consonantal Vorlag text underlay for the two versions of the Septuaginta;

There was also a DIFFERENT consonantal text underlay version in Hebrew used by Theodotion's Greek translation c. 120 CE which was the same Hebrew/Aramaic textual Vorlag underlay used by the writer of the socalled Book of Revelation (he favoured the Theodotion underlay for some reason in his quotations from e.g. Deuteronomy or the Book of Daniel for example).

So bearing in mind we have two versions of the Hebrew underlay to the Greek Septuaginta LXX, and a different version of the Torah used by the Samaritim, and a different version of the text used by Symmachus and a different version of the text used by Theodotion (as well as ANOTHER different Vorlag used by another translator called Aquila c. 125 CE whose text did not match any of the others letter for letter), as well as at least two MORE text families used by the Dead Sea Scroll copyists, HOW ON EARTH CAN ANY ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND STATE EMPHATICALLY THAT THERE EXISTS A COHERENT CODE in the HEBREW SCRIPTURES OF THE JEWS = EVEN IF YOU ONLY COUNT THE TORAH ?

A few examples from my previous post:

Take a close look at the glaring text letter for letter differences within the (supposedly ancient !) Torah of the Jews, e.g. CONSONANTAL differences between the Samaritan Pentateuch’s (SP) Consonantal Text of the TORAH (from c. 400 BCE) and the much later Masoretic Text (MT - from c. 900 CE; based on an earlier text from c. 165 BCE) - these are just a couple from HUNDREDS of like-examples of differences between just TWO sets of the FIVE versions of the Torah out there in the wild in antiquity:

In view of there being just ONE letter (Hebrew consonant) difference in the verisons, then any perceived (i.e. imagined) PaleoHebrew Torah CODE dissolves into thin air = because any ‘modern reconstruction’ of the Torah consonantal text involves picking and choosing between contradictory MSS ‘witnesses’.

MT = proto Masoretic (Babylonian) Consonantal Text at Qumran ( c. 165 BCE ; vowels added 960 CE) ;
SP = Samaritan Pentateuch Consonantal Text (c. 400 BCE)

e.g. MT וְחַיְתוֹ־אֶרֶץ v. SP וחית הארץ (Gen 1:24) =
e.g. MT אל תירא מֵרְדָה v. SP מרדת (Gen 46:3)
e.g. MT ארור אפם (“cursed be their anger”) v. SP to אדיר אפם (“mighty was their anger” = (Gen 49:7)
e.g. MT ואברכה v. SP ואברך (Gen 12:3)
e.g. MT ויולד changed 33 times to ויוליד in Gen 5 and 11 in the SP

e.g. MT למַס עבד v. SP למוס עבד (Gen 49:15),

e.g. MT בלטיהם v. SP בלהטיהם (Exod 8:14)


When there exists NO SINGLE uncontaminated text for consideration, YOU CANNOT HAVE ANY CODE embedded into it - and therefore you cannot have any Coherent CODE Argument about ANY embeddings into the Text either - BECAUSE ONE DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE COHERENT CONSONANTAL HEBREW TEXT WITH WHICH TO WORK ! Only five different versions that are 20% different from each other counting Consonant for Consonant !!!!





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