To atheists/non-believers: Why the evangelism?

Originally posted by Barcs

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Barcs
Non belief is the mathematical default, so saying that it requires faith to not believe something is illogical. Does it take faith to not believe in giant space turtles? You can't prove they don't exist. Don't get me wrong non belief and believing absolutely certain something is false are 2 completely different mindsets, and I find it extremely rare to find somebody who thinks god is absolutely impossible and wouldn't believe any evidence that is found, despite considering themselves atheists.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Giant space turtles? REALLY? Did you take the time at any point in your search for truth to admit you might not know EVERYTHING? Clearly, you have not bothered. If you had even half an ounce of intellectual honesty you would admit yourself to be an agnostic. Pathetic rebuttal.

What's ridiculous about that? I was talking about things that lack objective evidence. When you say it takes faith not to believe, you are incorrect. That is lack of faith or lack of belief. Space turtles was obviously just an example of something that cannot be proven to exist or not exist (like god). Do you think it requires faith not to believe in them? When people claim it requires faith to reject a belief, they are ignoring logic. I am agnostic and never claimed to know everything, but I obviously reject any belief system that isn't based on objective evidence. I was explaining that more atheists are indeed agnostic, despite the atheist labels.

edit on 5-9-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)

It is kind of semantics isn't it? A person who says "I'm certain there is no god" is operating on as much belief as someone who says "I'm certain there is a God." I agree with you that most athiests would actually be better described as agnostic as they are not certain there is no god, they just haven't seen any evidence to believe there is one.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

There are Christians who push their beliefs on others and there are Christians who don't.
There are atheists who push their beliefs on others and there are atheists who don't.

True, true.

Yes. But this is a discussion forum - - - with subject threads.

When someone here (usually a Christian) starts a thread on "them vs us" - - - then complain about how atheists treat them - - - that's kind of ridiculous.

In REAL LIFE - - you know grocery store - mall - standing on a corner. I have never once been approached by an atheist. I have many times been approached by Christians trying to push their god on me.

When and where in REAL LIFE - - - have you been approached by an atheist or non-believer - - "evangelizing" their lack of belief to you?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

There are Christians who push their beliefs on others and there are Christians who don't.
There are atheists who push their beliefs on others and there are atheists who don't.

True, true.

Yes. But this is a discussion forum - - - with subject threads.

When someone here (usually a Christian) starts a thread on "them vs us" - - - then complain about how atheists treat them - - - that's kind of ridiculous.

In REAL LIFE - - you know grocery store - mall - standing on a corner. I have never once been approached by an atheist. I have many times been approached by Christians trying to push their god on me.

When and where in REAL LIFE - - - have you been approached by an atheist or non-believer - - "evangelizing" their lack of belief to you?

It is funny how you love demanding "real life" examples form people but don't like to provide them yourself.

I've seen pro-and anti advertisements. I've seen pro and anti people speaking to people passing by on the Mall in DC. I've had both religious tracts and athiest group pamphlets handed to me in several big cities. It does not bother me in the least and I've not had anyone in either camp not take "thanks, but no thanks" for an answer.

There are athiests and there are anti-religion people. There is a difference. I've found that most athiests want to live and let live. There are, however, some rabid anti-religious people that want to push their beliefs on others. As the man said, there are some pushy jerks in both camps and that is the truth, like it or not.

I have a bombshell to break for atheists / non-believers:

If you are a good person and strive to do good, but don't subscribe to any religion or believe in God, perhaps you are performing the same task as those that do and know the same.

Good is Good and does not equal evil or untruth or lies in any form...

So it doesn't matter if they are good people but I wouldn't stick a logos on myself as "Atheist," which has very negative connotation in our day. You don't need a label if you're already a good person.

Time to take the training wheels off dear ones....

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
I have a bombshell to break for atheists / non-believers:

If you are a good person and strive to do good, but don't subscribe to any religion or believe in God, perhaps you are performing the same task as those that do and know the same.

Good is Good and does not equal evil or untruth or lies in any form...

So it doesn't matter if they are good people but I wouldn't stick a logos on myself as "Atheist," which has very negative connotation in our day. You don't need a label if you're already a good person.

Time to take the training wheels off dear ones....

That's a bombshell? What?

How about everyone drop the god labels and just be a good person.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

It is funny how you love demanding "real life" examples form people but don't like to provide them yourself.

Why? Why is it funny to ask what "real life" examples?

My example? How many times must I say I've never met another atheist in real life - - - but I've had many religious people approach me. Not just hand me a pamphlet - - but try to engage me in a religious discussion.

You've SEEN? And you've been handed pamphlets.

Has any atheist come up to you and tried to engage you in discussion of non-belief?

Can you just give a straight answer?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NavyDoc

It is funny how you love demanding "real life" examples form people but don't like to provide them yourself.

Why? Why is it funny to ask what "real life" examples?

My example? How many times must I say I've never met another atheist in real life - - - but I've had many religious people approach me. Not just hand me a pamphlet - - but try to engage me in a religious discussion.

You've SEEN? And you've been handed pamphlets.

Has any atheist come up to you and tried to engage you in discussion of non-belief?

Can you just give a straight answer?

Yes, as a matter of fact. We've been over this before and myself and many others have shared with you personal stories about encountering atheists in our lives that were "pushy" with their beliefs and criticisms when no such discussion was initiated on our part. I'm not so sure why you are so quick to forget this, and keep asking the same question over and over when it's already been answered.

I will reiterate, for your benefit, the places I have encountered this in real life:

-Highschool
-Social gatherings with friends
-Work place (I've experienced it more than once in the work place)
-College

While you like to contend that having these experiences in an educational environment like highschool or college somehow is irrelevant, there is still 2 other examples where I've encountered this behavior listed above.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
myself and many others have shared with you personal stories about encountering atheists in our lives that were "pushy" with their beliefs and criticisms when no such discussion was initiated on our part. I'm not so sure why you are so quick to forget this, and keep asking the same question over and over when it's already been answered.

I haven't forgotten.

One was talking about an encounter at college - - a presentation or a discussion.

Are you the one who has a friend and a couple acquaintances that are atheist?

No one has talked about an atheist walking up to them in a mall or grocery store - - and talking to them about non-belief.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
myself and many others have shared with you personal stories about encountering atheists in our lives that were "pushy" with their beliefs and criticisms when no such discussion was initiated on our part. I'm not so sure why you are so quick to forget this, and keep asking the same question over and over when it's already been answered.

I haven't forgotten.

One was talking about an encounter at college - - a presentation or a discussion.

Are you the one who has a friend and a couple acquaintances that are atheist?

No one has talked about an atheist walking up to them in a mall or grocery store - - and talking to them about non-belief.

I've encountered it in highschool (people just randomly talking about how stupid theists are, or talking trash about christians in class), in college (same as above), in the work place (completely random. Someone was reading a news story and just started going off about how retarded christians are), at parties and social gatherings, etc.

And yes, I have many friends who are atheist and many more who are agnostic. In fact I would say I only have a handful of Christian friends. Atheists and agnostics make up the bulk of my social circle.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
myself and many others have shared with you personal stories about encountering atheists in our lives that were "pushy" with their beliefs and criticisms when no such discussion was initiated on our part. I'm not so sure why you are so quick to forget this, and keep asking the same question over and over when it's already been answered.

I haven't forgotten.

One was talking about an encounter at college - - a presentation or a discussion.

Are you the one who has a friend and a couple acquaintances that are atheist?

No one has talked about an atheist walking up to them in a mall or grocery store - - and talking to them about non-belief.

I've encountered it in highschool (people just randomly talking about how stupid theists are, or talking trash about christians in class), in college (same as above), in the work place (completely random. Someone was reading a news story and just started going off about how retarded christians are), at parties and social gatherings, etc.

And yes, I have many friends who are atheist and many more who are agnostic. In fact I would say I only have a handful of Christian friends. Atheists and agnostics make up the bulk of my social circle.

Has anyone walked up to you at the mall or grocery store and tried to engage you in non-belief?

Its a pretty straight forward simple question.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
myself and many others have shared with you personal stories about encountering atheists in our lives that were "pushy" with their beliefs and criticisms when no such discussion was initiated on our part. I'm not so sure why you are so quick to forget this, and keep asking the same question over and over when it's already been answered.

I haven't forgotten.

One was talking about an encounter at college - - a presentation or a discussion.

Are you the one who has a friend and a couple acquaintances that are atheist?

No one has talked about an atheist walking up to them in a mall or grocery store - - and talking to them about non-belief.

I've encountered it in highschool (people just randomly talking about how stupid theists are, or talking trash about christians in class), in college (same as above), in the work place (completely random. Someone was reading a news story and just started going off about how retarded christians are), at parties and social gatherings, etc.

And yes, I have many friends who are atheist and many more who are agnostic. In fact I would say I only have a handful of Christian friends. Atheists and agnostics make up the bulk of my social circle.

Has anyone walked up to you at the mall or grocery store and tried to engage you in non-belief?

Its a pretty straight forward simple question.

No.

Originally posted by Annee
Has anyone walked up to you at the mall or grocery store and tried to engage you in non-belief?

Its a pretty straight forward simple question.

They have here and on many other forums

What difference is it between a mall or on my computer screen.
The message is the same. In a mall I can say go away and I would expect an evangeliser to go away, on the screen they wont.
Whats more it seems cowardly an atheist will fight from behind a faceless mask, a computer warrior if you will. Its worse when its on a computer screen than in a mall or on the street. My opinion.

Your point is mute, its based on what you want to justify. You being here proves you desire to evangelise your atheism at Christians or at least justify it.
Christians are called to, told to, you do it for yourself.
Look at the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by borntowatch
What difference is it between a mall or on my computer screen.
The message is the same. In a mall I can say go away and I would expect an evangeliser to go away, on the screen they wont.
Whats more it seems cowardly an atheist will fight from behind a faceless mask, a computer warrior if you will. Its worse when its on a computer screen than in a mall or on the street. My opinion.

Your point is mute, its based on what you want to justify. You being here proves you desire to evangelise your atheism at Christians or at least justify it.
Christians are called to, told to, you do it for yourself.
Look at the hypocrisy.

I disagree with the part of your statement in bold. I created this thread specifically to talk to atheists and understand their point of view. Annee has done nothing more than share her own.

I think she is missing the point of the OP to an extent, however.

My apologise to both

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I think she is missing the point of the OP to an extent, however.

No - - I don't think so.

Evangelism is the preaching of the Christian Gospel or the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to date - - except in specific designated forms of media/forums (or educational gatherings) - - - I have never encountered a non-believer coming up to me or anyone trying to convert me/them.

I'm not saying it won't happen someday. As non-believers increase in numbers- - - they may become more forceful in trying to affect society in one-on-one encounters.

But - - we're not there yet.

I'm in a small beach city. There are 6 Christian churches within 2 blocks of me. Not one non-belief gathering place.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

I think she is missing the point of the OP to an extent, however.

No - - I don't think so.

Evangelism is the preaching of the Christian Gospel or the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others with the object of conversion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to date - - except in specific designated forms of media/forums (or educational gatherings) - - - I have never encountered a non-believer coming up to me or anyone trying to convert me/them.

I'm not saying it won't happen someday. As non-believers increase in numbers- - - they may become more forceful in trying to affect society in one-on-one encounters.

But - - we're not there yet.

I'm in a small beach city. There are 6 Christian churches within 2 blocks of me. Not one non-belief gathering place.

First of all, In my OP I put the term "evangelism" in quotes. If you've been reading the thread, you'll know that I've clarified my position and have used a more appropriate term thenceforth.

As for your second point, this does not address the OP at all. The fact Christian evangelists outnumber atheists isn't even debatable. It's obvious. The question I am asking is this: Is it not an act of hypocrisy for atheists to prosthelytize when they themselves find evangelism so distasteful. The fact we don't have atheists handing out pamphlets in malls on a large scale (yet) does not detract from the question I am asking, or the point I am trying to make.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

A lot of Atheists (not all) feel the need to be contrarian in order to feel relevant. I find that these types of Atheists are insecure in their own belief (or non belief for that matter) and feel the need to feed their ego and insecurities by ridiculing Theists, especially Christians. Then there are the other Atheists, who have searched countless hours for the truth, and have determined that the truth is that there is no God or supreme creator, and they tend to know the bible better than most Theists, and are up for a respectful and intellectual debate anytime.

I read the first part of the thread and thought bashing, then I read the second part, my evangelical siblings or step father will no longer argue with me, I know the book better than they do. I have walked into a church in the last couple of years for a family activity, but no one argues with me anymore. According to studies I have read, agnostics or atheists are better educated in the bible than most evangelicals.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I don't evangelize, and I am technically an atheist (I am open to the idea of a cosmic maker but find all human religions unconvincing) but I certainly understand why some evangelical atheists act the way they do: If they don't "fight fire with fire," their message is quickly drowned out by the persistent evangelicalism of the religious in our society.

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread. I'm not so sure I agree that such a view is necessary, however. You see fundamentalist Christians do the same thing (yelling at the top of their lungs about how so and so is going to burn in hell). The behavior is equally distasteful regardless of who's engaging in it (Christians, Muslims, Atheists, whatever). What I find interesting is that the atheists who practice this philosophy don't see any irony in the fact they are participating in the very behavior that likely had a part in turning them into atheists in the first place.

I contend that atheism (or any belief for that matter), isn't going to just die off because people don't rant and rave about it and verbally assault anyone who doesn't agree with them. The ideas will still persist. It's not like anyone is rounding up atheists and killing them for their beliefs, so the notion that they need to be the loudest of the philosophies or cease to exist is false.

They have rounded us up in the past and killed us. Please read your history. I consider myself agnostic, I have no problem believing there is something larger than I, but am not sure what it is, could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Damn! My fist post got moofed.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

First of all, In my OP I put the term "evangelism" in quotes.

I am fully aware of that.

Is it not an act of hypocrisy for atheists to prosthelytize when they themselves find evangelism so distasteful.

Where are they proselytizing?

How do you proselytize a lack of belief?

Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I don't evangelize, and I am technically an atheist (I am open to the idea of a cosmic maker but find all human religions unconvincing) but I certainly understand why some evangelical atheists act the way they do: If they don't "fight fire with fire," their message is quickly drowned out by the persistent evangelicalism of the religious in our society.

That seems to be a recurring theme in this thread. I'm not so sure I agree that such a view is necessary, however. You see fundamentalist Christians do the same thing (yelling at the top of their lungs about how so and so is going to burn in hell). The behavior is equally distasteful regardless of who's engaging in it (Christians, Muslims, Atheists, whatever). What I find interesting is that the atheists who practice this philosophy don't see any irony in the fact they are participating in the very behavior that likely had a part in turning them into atheists in the first place.

I contend that atheism (or any belief for that matter), isn't going to just die off because people don't rant and rave about it and verbally assault anyone who doesn't agree with them. The ideas will still persist. It's not like anyone is rounding up atheists and killing them for their beliefs, so the notion that they need to be the loudest of the philosophies or cease to exist is false.

They have rounded us up in the past and killed us. Please read your history. I consider myself agnostic, I have no problem believing there is something larger than I, but am not sure what it is, could be the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

They have rounded us up in the past and killed us too. I have read my history, tyvm. Times change, and atheists certainly aren't being burned at the stake today. Surely even the staunchest atheist can agree that 2 moral wrongs don't make a right (i.e: He did it to me first, so I will do it to him). It seems quite simple to me: If you don't like people preaching at you, don't do it to others. I'm not sure why this seems to be lost on some atheists. I have heard many arguments as to why they feel it's justified, but none of them possess logic (which you would think would be a respected trait among materialists).

As for considering yourself an agnostic, I believe that to be the only intellectually honest and most logical conclusion for a "non-believer" to come to, so you will find no argument from me in that regard.