To atheists/non-believers: Why the evangelism?

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posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 

That is not true.

If authentic proof was given then, I think, most atheists would have no problem accepting it.



The problem is that atheists have no authentic proof that God DOESN'T exist. An honest skeptic and scientist, would be agnostic at best, instead of proselytizing about a concept that can't be proven. It is, at the moment, a philosophical question. So any attempt to "preach" is tantamount to an act of faith (much as we see religious people do when they attempt to convert others).

Jigger has demonstrated this perfectly (as hitchens often did) by making it a personal issue. It is the exact kind of behavior atheists often cite as a sort of reason for doubting the existence of God.

In essence, I am arguing that proselytism within the atheist community is detrimental to their own cause (and hypocritical at best). Arguing "we don't know for sure but the evidence suggests this" is a far cry from "you're an idiot, flying spaghetti monster".

To call oneself an atheist in the first place, is practically an act of faith (philosophically speaking).
edit on 3-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The problem is that atheists have no authentic proof that God DOESN'T exist.

That isn't a problem because many atheists understand that the true position is that of agnosticism and that calling oneself an atheist only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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My take on God is that there's no way you could possibly know about it because even if God itself came down to us and revealed all, we'd have no way at all to tell whether it was really (a) God or just some inscrutable other thing that has the ability to trick us into believing that it was. In either case it would be way beyond our ability to test it in any way. Therefore arbitrarily accepting for example (Yahweh, assuming it exists) as an actual god really is a matter of faith no matter how thoroughly it reveals itself to us. You just have to take its word for it.

I'll only get into arguments when someone asserts that a belief based on a matter of pure faith has anything to do with "truth". Because there's no way they could possibly know that. I wont accept any argument with a premise that relies on the assertion of that kind of "truth". But as long as it isn't brought up, there's obviously no reason to argue about it. I actually don't see a lot of spontaneous "evangelizing" by Atheists. Maybe my perception is off, but it usually occurs in response to an assertion of impossible knowledge.




edit on 3-9-2012 by Tearman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The problem is that atheists have no authentic proof that God DOESN'T exist.

That isn't a problem because many atheists understand that the true position is that of agnosticism and that calling oneself an atheist only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.


Absolutely!

The root of agnosticism is: God can not be proven or dis-proven.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The problem is that atheists have no authentic proof that God DOESN'T exist.

That isn't a problem because many atheists understand that the true position is that of agnosticism and that calling oneself an atheist only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.


Absolutely!

The root of agnosticism is: God can not be proven or dis-proven.


I like how you both skipped the part of my post where I pointed that out.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Yes, you pointed that out but you still have no problem proclaiming your belief in god. So there are also theists who understand know that the actual position is agnosticism but that calling oneself a believer in god only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
The problem is that atheists have no authentic proof that God DOESN'T exist.

That isn't a problem because many atheists understand that the true position is that of agnosticism and that calling oneself an atheist only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.


Absolutely!

The root of agnosticism is: God can not be proven or dis-proven.


I like how you both skipped the part of my post where I pointed that out.


I actually didn't.

The simplest was to reinforce the simplest most accurate statement.

edit on 3-9-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Yes, you pointed that out but you still have no problem proclaiming your belief in god. So there are also theists who understand know that the actual position is agnosticism but that calling oneself a believer in god only shows which way one leans, if pressed for a yes or no answer.


The point is that I don't force that belief on others, nor do I call those who don't share it idiots. The entire purpose of this thread was to understand why some "atheists" feel the need to do this (much like some "Christians") and fail to see the hypocrisy of their own actions.
edit on 3-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


The real problem is that "proof that something DOESN'T exist" isn't usually demanded for many things who's existence is unknown. No one has a problem with people saying things like Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are not real. Is there proof that they don't exist?

Of course there are other things like Bigfoot, UFOs, ghosts, demons and god, which have people choosing a side and presenting their arguments. Those who take up the disbelief stance believe that the logic that suffices for the former should also apply to these.

Since, you don't believe in the former without proof that it doesn't exist, why would you need it, to not believe in the latter?

To be honest I have yet to meet actual evangelistic atheists in real life. I have seen rude comments on the net but they are no different than any other type of rude comments.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Didn't read the whole thread. Did anyone mention that hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered under athiestic communist revolutions? Every time, an athiest will be quick to say, look how many people fought and died over religion, Oh my!!! 'God' I utterly despise athiests and other scientific fascists who say paranormal experiences don't exist, therefore you should be locked up, or something. Those people are the true enemy in this world. whether or not they know it or admit it, they are Satanic. Think about it. Moral reletivism..Social Darwinism. Racial hygiene. Nothing but nothing is beyond those types.

They are the PTB.



posted on Sep, 3 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by specialcategory
Didn't read the whole thread. Did anyone mention that hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered under athiestic communist revolutions? Every time, an athiest will be quick to say, look how many people fought and died over religion, Oh my!!! 'God' I utterly despise athiests and other scientific fascists who say paranormal experiences don't exist, therefore you should be locked up, or something. Those people are the true enemy in this world. whether or not they know it or admit it, they are Satanic. Think about it. Moral reletivism..Social Darwinism. Racial hygiene. Nothing but nothing is beyond those types.

They are the PTB.

Actually the number is in the millions but your point is off topic.

And, just so you know, there are many atheists who believe in paranormal experiences. Don't be so quick to paint everyone in a particular group with such a wide brush.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by specialcategory
Didn't read the whole thread. Did anyone mention that hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered under athiestic communist revolutions?


How does one act on the ideology of belief - - when there is no belief.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by specialcategory
Didn't read the whole thread. Did anyone mention that hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered under athiestic communist revolutions?


How does one act on the ideology of belief - - when there is no belief.





Don't start this again, Annee


You know the thread to do it in.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by specialcategory
Didn't read the whole thread. Did anyone mention that hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered under athiestic communist revolutions?


How does one act on the ideology of belief - - when there is no belief.





Don't start this again, Annee


You know the thread to do it in.


Yes I do. Which is why I made a short statement. Notice there is no question mark.

Shouldn't you redirect the one who brought it up to that thread? Why didn't you?



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by jiggerj
 


I'm sorry but that seems like a very intolerant and ignorant approach. How can you be so confident that you completely understand the nature of reality and the origins of the universe (and what happened before the big bang) that you'd be willing to deny other people their freedom of expression, religion, etc?

To me, that just seems a far more ignorant outlook (or at least equally ignorant) than the religious extremists which you so loathe.

Conversely, I would argue I don't wish my children to be exposed to such drastic and totalitarian views. Does that mean you should be banned from voicing atheist opinions?


My belief is one of intolerance. If you wouldn't stand by and watch your child's body being raped, why would you tolerate people raping your child's mind? And, yes, I am 100% positive that this universe and everything in it wasn't created by magic.

No, I don't want my child's young mind thinking she's going to eternal hell for stealing a cookie from the cookie jar. I don't want her thinking that some supernatural being is watching her every move, hearing her every thought, and judging her every second of every day of her life. When she grows up I don't want her thinking it's okay to take a knife and mutilate her baby boy's penis because god wants her to. I don't want her thinking that god will protect her from being raped, beaten, robbed... I don't want her thinking that if she is raped, beaten, or robbed, that a loving god must have wanted it to happen, or that she sinned so badly that he turned away from her.

These things are just sick, and I don't want children exposed to this ever again.


This post just speaks for itself. You've become what you hate, and I really do feel sorry for you.

I'm glad you feel 100% confident that you understand the universe and it's origins completely. Maybe you should forward your resume and credentials to Harvard, or perhaps NASA, so you can answer all their questions too. While you're at it, it wouldn't hurt to actually spend some time studying the new testament and talking to people who have spent decades doing so before you make such ridiculous statements about religion. You've taken an idea which you've gleaned from fundamentalist ideas and ran away with it completely.

Anyways, hope to read your papers and see your debates on youtube soon.


How does knowing that the universe was not created by magic imply that I know how the universe works? See, religious people always exaggerate or derail a discussion when they don't want to face the truth.

If you can, please take each of my 'ridiculous statements about religion' and prove they are not absolutely, positively true.



That would go beyond the purpose and scope of this thread. I appreciate your contribution, however.

As for your assertion that I am religious, or that the Universe was created by "magic", I contend that is a very narrow view (the former point being completely untrue, and the latter being a very prosaic way of discussing the idea of creation). It's unfortunate that you would rather suppress the views of those you disagree with because of some sort of personal vendetta than have a real and open discussion on the subject, but you have done more to answer my questions about why atheists choose to prosthelytize despite the obvious irony, than any other person in this thread.
edit on 3-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)


See, you dodge and exaggerate. These are your very own words in your very first post:

I am sick to death of people popping into threads with comments like "Your bible is a fairy tale"


YOUR bible. How can anyone take this but as you being religious?
As for doing more to answer questions about atheists, you're welcome.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Why do atheists feel the need to do precisely that?


It's the same prospect you see occurring on the news with all these artificially inflated and abhorrently exaggerated racial conflict stories purposefully acted out and invented for the world to see and discuss on the global stage.

It's to create conflict and discussion.

This is to make the concept of racial stereotype and prejudice so overwhelmingly horrific that eventually when laws are instated to eradicate such behavior and thoughts... then it is welcomed with open arms.
It's simple logic to create ideal circumstances.

If collective consciousness creates reality, and people tolerate disharmonious thought forms ABOUT reality, opposing myths, belief systems.. etc.. then the resulting reality which is created is one in-congruent with the existing ACTUAL REALITY.. and hence, our inability to augment and experience this reality we exist in, to it's fullest potential.

In other words.. everybody has to be on the same page. and properly informed about what's on the page, in order for us to advance as a species.
That page contains scientific evidence about what this "all" actually "IS".. and how we are involved in it.

All this atheist evangelism is in line with the strategy the powers that be are using to procure the measures outlined in Albert Pike's writings about what the third major global conflict should produce... which is the simultaneous eradication of Islam, Christianity, and Athiesm.

It's to put atheism into the ring and watch it flail.. or watch it conquer and abuse, so that we say to it after some tyrant does something hideous with it as his backing premise...
we say "never again" to atheism etc.. and it's effects are revealed.

Science without conscious spiritual guidance.



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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Non belief is the mathematical default, so saying that it requires faith to not believe something is illogical. Does it take faith to not believe in giant space turtles? You can't prove they don't exist. Don't get me wrong non belief and believing absolutely certain something is false are 2 completely different mindsets, and I find it extremely rare to find somebody who thinks god is absolutely impossible and wouldn't believe any evidence that is found, despite considering themselves atheists.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Barcs
Non belief is the mathematical default, so saying that it requires faith to not believe something is illogical. Does it take faith to not believe in giant space turtles? You can't prove they don't exist. Don't get me wrong non belief and believing absolutely certain something is false are 2 completely different mindsets, and I find it extremely rare to find somebody who thinks god is absolutely impossible and wouldn't believe any evidence that is found, despite considering themselves atheists.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Giant space turtles? REALLY? Did you take the time at any point in your search for truth to admit you might not know EVERYTHING? Clearly, you have not bothered. If you had even half an ounce of intellectual honesty you would admit yourself to be an agnostic. Pathetic rebuttal.



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Barcs
Non belief is the mathematical default, so saying that it requires faith to not believe something is illogical. Does it take faith to not believe in giant space turtles? You can't prove they don't exist. Don't get me wrong non belief and believing absolutely certain something is false are 2 completely different mindsets, and I find it extremely rare to find somebody who thinks god is absolutely impossible and wouldn't believe any evidence that is found, despite considering themselves atheists.


This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Giant space turtles? REALLY? Did you take the time at any point in your search for truth to admit you might not know EVERYTHING? Clearly, you have not bothered. If you had even half an ounce of intellectual honesty you would admit yourself to be an agnostic. Pathetic rebuttal.


What's ridiculous about that? I was talking about things that lack objective evidence. When you say it takes faith not to believe, you are incorrect. That is lack of faith or lack of belief. Space turtles was obviously just an example of something that cannot be proven to exist or not exist (like god). Do you think it requires faith not to believe in them? When people claim it requires faith to reject a belief, they are ignoring logic. I am agnostic and never claimed to know everything, but I obviously reject any belief system that isn't based on objective evidence. I was explaining that more atheists are indeed agnostic, despite the atheist labels.
edit on 5-9-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


There are Christians who push their beliefs on others and there are Christians who don't.
There are atheists who push their beliefs on others and there are atheists who don't.




True, true.





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