Muslim Woman Asked to Remove Headscarf in NJ Mall

Not sure if anyone's made this point, but have you noticed that you can't see their faces? Therefore their identities are hidden. Any American kind can't walk in with a big black towel round his head and get away with it. Thieves could just dress up as muslims if they wanted to rob everything. Yeah take them off, they are stupid. They even wear them at the beach, and sometimes swim in them. Absolutely ridiculous. Why would you live your whole life in that way, for something that pretty certainly isn't true?

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

Right on man,as a motorcyclist who cannot even wear an open face helmet in areas where muslim women can be fully covered im glad to see this,asides from the fact that if we were in an arab country we would have to adapt to their rules,this is a matter of safety in certain places you have to be identifiable,hell there was even a muslim girl at school i remember who had her ipod earphones stashed in there too! But if a white student came in with their hood up they would be told to remove it!......this is the kind of things that breed rascism where its one rule for the majority and another for the minority in an enviroment where anyone who speaks out gets slapped with the race card!!!!!

reply to post by ScottishBiker420


Ive tried to carefully explain here its not a "race" card but a "freedon" card. In a country where there are so many freedoms...I belieive its coming to the day when exercising those very freedoms....will get someone killed.

Here in Dearborn Mi, I do EMT work...for EVERYONE regardless. And if a Muslim women is bleeding to death...I cannot treat her...she would most likely demand a female medic because of their traditions.

People are free to relocate here because of how much better it is, and yet, dont learn the language, dont embrace the local AMerican traditions, and hold on to homeland beliefs.

I had a good freidn from Yemen who once told me if I visited there, I could be stoned to death because Ive been married more than once.

I asked what he would do? He said matter of factly..."watch you die".

reply to post by draco49


SORRY i was a bit drunk at the time lol

Regarding the whole unknown gender and identity factor, it is 100% true that men over in Afghanistan sometimes dress in a niqab/ruband to conceal their identity while also carrying a Kalashnikov underneath their garments. Being mistaken for a woman in a time of war will oftentimes let them be able to survive a little longer before being found and shot. The only way they could be identified from a distance would be to see them walking with one arm swaying and the other arm staying still to keep their weapon secure on their side (this would keep it from bulging while walking); however who's not to say it still isn't a woman.... Only a kill confirmation can tell who/what it was.


Source: Experience

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Of course I read it....If this is her country...all the more reason to abide by laws. Relgious freedon, of course. But, I still hold the same opinion.

Yea... what law in the U.S. says people can't wear a veil?

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Why do Police and in-coming to jail arrestees have strip searches? To see whats what. Same thing. To identify who and what is inside. And it should be like that.

Also, I understood there is no religious basis or requirement for Muslim women to wear a Hajib or veil. And that comes from a Muslim herself.

So being asked to remove it or not wear it denies nothing. And countries around the world are now making it illegal to wear in public places. And that not even in the US.

Now everyone should be strip searched when going to a mall???

You also know nothing about the Islamic religion. It's the same stance in Islam as God believers have... some believe that Jesus was the son of god... others don't. It's part of the religion, but not everyone believes that it's important to the religion... therefore some don't wear it.

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
Islam is more than just a religion. I think people get caught up in the "religion" aspect but in reality Islam is a political ideology. The Sharia laws and other "laws" garning the behavior of a Muslim range from stupid to barbaric in the 21st Century. I really don't think that many other religions are far behind Islam whrn it comes the their own brand of bigotry.

Lets be real...

Islamic Law full book

Islamic Law for menstration

Rules of Istihaza
400. * In the case of little istihaza the a woman should perform separate Wudhu for every prayer and should, as a recommended precaution, wash or change the pad. And if some blood is found on the outer part of her private parts she should make it Pak with water.

401. * In the case of Mutawassita, it is an obligatory precaution for a woman to make one Ghusl everyday for her daily prayers, and she should act accordingly to the rules of little Istihaza as explained in the foregoing rule. If the state of Istihaza began before or just at the time of Fajr prayers, she should do Ghusl before offering Fajr prayers. If she does not do Ghusl intentionally or forgetfully, she should do Ghusl before Zuhr and Asr prayers. And if she misses even that, then she should do Ghusl before praying Maghrib and Isha. This she would do regardless of whether bleeding continues or stops.

402. * In the case of excessive bleeding the woman should change, as an obligatory precaution, the cotton or pad tied to her private parts or make it Pak with water. It is also necessary that she should do one Ghusl for Fajr prayers, one for Zuhr and Asr prayers and once again for Maghrib and Isha prayers. She should offer Asr prayers immediately after Zuhr prayers and if she allowed any lapse of time between them, she should do Ghusl again for Asr prayers. Similarly if she keeps any time gap between Maghrib and Isha prayers, she should do Ghusl again for Isha prayers.

All these rules apply when bleeding is so excessive that it continues soiling the pad etc. But if it takes longer to soil the cotton or pad, and a woman has enough time to pray one or more Namaz in between, then, as per obligatory precaution, she would change the pad or wash it to make Pak and then do Ghusl only when the cloth covering the pad or cotton is fully soaked.

For example, if a woman praying Namaz of Zuhr finds out that the cloth is fully soaked again before the prayers of Asr, she would do Ghusl for Asr prayers.

And if she finds that the flow of blood is slow enough to allow two or more prayers to be offered before the cotton or cloth is totally soiled with blood, there will be no need for Ghusl before the ensuing prayer. For example, if she finds that there is enough time to offer even Maghrib and Isha prayers, before the cloth is fully soaked, she would pray Maghrib and Isha without Ghusl.

In every case, the Ghusl in excessive Istihaza does not require Wudhu after it.

403. If istihaza blood is seen before the time for prayers has set in, and the woman has not performed Wudhu or Ghusl for that bleeding, she should perform Wudhu or Ghusl at the time of prayers, even though she may not be mustahaza at that time.

Why should allow the use of garments as slave shackles and call ourselves a free nation?

edit on 24-5-2012 by fnpmitchreturns because: context

edit on 24-5-2012 by fnpmitchreturns because: add Islamic Law link

For the same reason that I can go work in someone's home without pay today. Because I'm free to do as I please.

If she wants to wear it... let her wear it. If her husband wants her to wear it and she doesn't... that's between her and her husband. Same way I'm sure you have certain rules for your household. "Children... don't say that word".

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

It not like Burger King "Have it your way". Not when its a matter of safety for the public and sometimes the wear-er-person themselves.

Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped and hidden in plain sight of people with a scarf covering her face, who could have rescued her. And thats just one example of not knowing whats behind it.

Oh yea... that veil can kill everyone any second now.

Originally posted by DiabolusFireDragon

Originally posted by wevebeenassimilated
We are SUPPOSED to have freedoms in this country. It's pretty obvious that they are rapidly being stripped away but we are supposed to be protected by the Constitution.

What about the freedom of the property owner? If one owned a mall/store/business and barred identity concealing clothing, religious in nature or not, would that not be acceptable?

I'm all for personal freedoms, but it goes both ways. If you want to wear a face concealing headscarf in public, fine. But if a business owner wants to bar that type of concealment in their establishment, I also say fine as long as it's clearly posted. While her motive may be harmless, as a business owner I would be concerned this could be utilized to conceal identities of those who wish to commit crimes and get away without being identified.

Were there signs posted stating "No headgear" or "Face must she shown"? If not, then she has the right to enter. If an owner of the mall (is there a such thing???... I thought it was public property) decides to have her leave... that's another thing. Obviously it's not against mall policy, otherwise there would have been no apology and training for the security guard.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

Isn't her country the US?

What are our ways?

Do we tell people what they can and cannot wear in the US?
Since when?
Why do you want to be just like them anyway? I want to be like the US. I do not want to lower myself to every low standard of every other country.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by marg6043

 

I totally agree. It's the same in Canada. They flee their country because of all the oppression and war. They come to our countries and and bring the very customs which propagated the life style they were running away from.

They're leaving oppression... not their cultural beliefs. Like I said... if she doesn't want to wear if, she can take it off... but she can also want to wear it.

Originally posted by ScottishBiker420

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

Right on man,as a motorcyclist who cannot even wear an open face helmet in areas where muslim women can be fully covered im glad to see this,asides from the fact that if we were in an arab country we would have to adapt to their rules,this is a matter of safety in certain places you have to be identifiable,hell there was even a muslim girl at school i remember who had her ipod earphones stashed in there too! But if a white student came in with their hood up they would be told to remove it!......this is the kind of things that breed rascism where its one rule for the majority and another for the minority in an enviroment where anyone who speaks out gets slapped with the race card!!!!!

My tax dollars pay for a minority of religious zealots to decorate my entire city with their religious symbols every year at the same time. People like you and Sean Hannity keep telling me that is their religious freedom. So only Christian cults get to be free in the US huh?

reply to post by SilentKillah




My point. Man or woman? Armed or not?

reply to post by habitforming

Again...its all about correctly and safetly identifying potential risks. And this person is a....?

reply to post by SilentKillah


See my other posts on this page. Its about their right as opposed to our COUNTRY's right to identify potential risks. Thats all. There has to be both.


Im done here...no more photos. You dont seem to get it.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

My point. Man or woman? Armed or not?

You could have posted a picture of a fully showing woman's face and still asked, armed or not?
Then you can post a picture of a good crossdresser, a transgender, and a hermaphrodite and ask both those questions. So your questions are kind of stupid. I was thinking just for simple facial recognition of a crime were caught on tape but then again I can always glue on a mustache for the day and tape my breasts down.

What you really do not get though is that I do not want to defend this woman on religious grounds. If she said she were dressed that way because her religion makes her then I cannot defend that kind of stupidity. I know Islam better than that anyway. I just get so sick of Sean Hannity crying about losing his religious freedom and bashing Muslims all day long.

And why do you all keep just assuming a Muslim is from a Muslim country? All the ones I know are from America and Canada.

reply to post by habitforming

If you read ANYTHING about me...I LIVE with all these different dressed women in Dearborn Mi. I see hundreds each week. And I am an EMT responding to their emergency calls. (cant treat them dressed like that because they'd rather die than be treated by a man. Its not their custom.)

I have to respect each and everyone...and yes...possibly save a life or two if theyll let.

But to say I dont understand...I am probably one of the only ones here who truely DOES understand the issue...why it is that way...how we must respect it...and yet why it is a HUGE problem.

PS. When PD and FIRE does respond...because of their dress...we are instructed to treat each person as armed, identity unknown...and sex undetermined at 1st.

So here in Dearborn Mi and around the world with HUGE Muslim populations...identity is a humongous issue.

So here I go on another call today at the ARAB Festival....c ya.

Originally posted by mysterioustranger
Good. If we went to her country, we would have to abide by their ways. Theyre here...so abide by ours.

Well we dont ask jewish kids in public schools to take off that jewish hat which they have to wear all the time during I forgot what.

Can somebody fill in the gaps?

Unless there is a law against being unrecognizable in public, like in some countries.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


You did not answer my one simple question.
You wrote a lot of stuff about you though.