WTC7, the smoking gun that just will not go away until the traitors are rounded up

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


The document you pulled that image from contradicts your lie flatly. I already quoted it a long time ago.
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The original of your diagram is from this document

The recirculatory oil system stores, carries, cools, and distributes oil needed for lubricating and cooling every bearing, gear, spline, carbon seal, and certain accessories.

It's right there in black and white for you to read, but no, of course you don't do that. You grab an image and write on it in MS Paint, ignoring what the document says about the exact question we're discussing. What a farce!

reply to post by MI5edtoDeath


But oil is used for cooling. I was a jet engine mechanic in the military btw, I can remember some of what I learned lol.

Oil is used to lubricate and cool bearings, carbon seals, the reduction gearbox etc. It's not used to cool the engine itself, you wouldn't want to cool the engine. I think that seems to be the confusion.

Now that every one except for MI5 has learned that jet engine oil is used as both a lubricant and a coolant,,,,,And also operates at a pressure of about 50 psi (about 3.5 atmospheres) ......And that the vapour trail left by AA77 after it clipped the tree looks amazingly similar to this plane trailing oil after a bird strike.



We should probably move on to something new. (hopefully MI5 will catch up with everyone else soon)

The oil vapour boiling out of the engine core at the crash site of UA93 left a visible stain on the ground.




It can be seen in all the aerial photos....and if you follow its path back into the crater you will find that it originates from the very same spot the starboard engine would be located.



Isn't that amazing. The pieces do fit together.

Originally posted by waypastvne
Now that every one except for MI5 has learned that jet engine oil is used as both a lubricant and a coolant,,,,,.

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We should probably move on to something new.

Agreed.

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer


You guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves embarrassing a poor "truther" like that. Have mercy and allow him to get something right for a change... Didn't you know that "truthers" are smarter than everyone else. After all that's why they are "truthers" in the first place...

I should post this picture while we are still on the subject of oil.

As you can see, even though it purged most of its oil on the way to the ground, It still has a mist of oil steaming out of it.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by MI5edtoDeath

 

But oil is used for cooling. I was a jet engine mechanic in the military btw, I can remember some of what I learned lol.

Oil is used to lubricate and cool bearings, carbon seals, the reduction gearbox etc. It's not used to cool the engine itself, you wouldn't want to cool the engine. I think that seems to be the confusion.

edit on 6/10/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

You use ramjet air to cool everything including the oil. The temperature difference between of desirable oil viscosity and hot oil in the circuit is negligible. We are talking between 40°C and 80°C when the heat around the the jet engine combustion chamber is at least 800°C. In the gear chamber, without ramjet air, it would be hot enough to ignite like diesel oil.

Anyway waypastvne said oil is pressurised to keep it from boiling. This is the whole crux of the argument. It was DrEugenFixer who conflated the whole thing with his refrigeration and associated debunker garbage to obscure the detail of the discussion which you did not follow.

Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by DrEugeneFixer

 

You guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves embarrassing a poor "truther" like that. Have mercy and allow him to get something right for a change... Didn't you know that "truthers" are smarter than everyone else. After all that's why they are "truthers" in the first place...

Oooops! Another "debunker" turns up out of the woodwork to slime the truth.

Your buddies know exactly what I am saying but haven't got the back bone to admit they are wrong. Typical OSers.

reply to post by waypastvne


It is you that needs to catch with me. Your point was dumb because;

> you do not prevent boiling by pressuring
> smoke from an unknown source in an apparent crash site as shown in the photo you posted proves nothing
> your photo of a flying aircraft with a stream coming off it could be a leaking fuel line, flame retardant

It can be seen in all the aerial photos....and if you follow its path back into the crater you will find that it originates from the very same spot the starboard engine would be located.

I see no starboard engine so the apparent fire and smoke you indicate means nothing.

Originally posted by waypastvne
I should post this picture while we are still on the subject of oil.

As you can see, even though it purged most of its oil on the way to the ground, It still has a mist of oil steaming out of it.

Considering there is a lamp post, scaffolding and a rubbish bin around that lump of something, one wonders how it got there.

That smoke looks like photoshop to me.]

As you can see, even though it purged most of its oil on the way to the ground, It still has a mist of oil steaming out of it

How do you know this since you make a statement of fact? Please prove that the lump of metal you indicate is an engine, that it fell from an aircraft and that it "purged" its oil. You seem to be making a great deal of assumption and expect the rest of us to accept them.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

You use ramjet air to cool everything including the oil. The temperature difference between of desirable oil viscosity and hot oil in the circuit is negligible. We are talking between 40°C and 80°C when the heat around the the jet engine combustion chamber is at least 800°C. In the gear chamber, without ramjet air, it would be hot enough to ignite like diesel oil.

Yes ram air is use for cooling of the oil through the heat exchanger. The oil gets hot when it lubricates and the heat from the component transfers to it, the hot oil is used to warm the fuel, then the oil is cooled again as it passes through the exchanger. The oil cools the parts it lubricates, parts that are not open to ram air like the reduction gears, accessory gearbox, carbon seals, bearings.

In fact 90% of the oils job is cooling...

Introduction

International air regulations require that each engine be equipped with a self-contained oil system capable of providing continuous oil flow to the engine, under all conditions. The recirculatory oil system stores, carries, cools, and distributes oil needed for lubricating and cooling every bearing, gear, spline, carbon seal, and certain accessories.

The circulating jet oil has as its important functions: 90 percent to transfer calories, 5–10 percent to reduce friction, 2–3 percent to seal, to circulate contaminates to catchment devices and to protect against corrosion.

Jet Engine Oil System

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath

You use ramjet air to cool everything including the oil. The temperature difference between of desirable oil viscosity and hot oil in the circuit is negligible. We are talking between 40°C and 80°C when the heat around the the jet engine combustion chamber is at least 800°C. In the gear chamber, without ramjet air, it would be hot enough to ignite like diesel oil.

Yes ram air is use for cooling of the oil through the heat exchanger. The oil gets hot when it lubricates and the heat from the component transfers to it, the hot oil is used to warm the fuel, then the oil is cooled again as it passes through the exchanger. The oil cools the parts it lubricates, parts that are not open to ram air like the reduction gears, accessory gearbox, carbon seals, bearings.

In fact 90% of the oils job is cooling...

Introduction

International air regulations require that each engine be equipped with a self-contained oil system capable of providing continuous oil flow to the engine, under all conditions. The recirculatory oil system stores, carries, cools, and distributes oil needed for lubricating and cooling every bearing, gear, spline, carbon seal, and certain accessories.

The circulating jet oil has as its important functions: 90 percent to transfer calories, 5–10 percent to reduce friction, 2–3 percent to seal, to circulate contaminates to catchment devices and to protect against corrosion.

Jet Engine Oil System

edit on 6/11/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)

I am not in dispute with anything you have written. Heated oil requires cooling in the heat exchanger. The heat build up is a consequence of the oil circulating in hot auxiliary parts.


waypastvne made two statements;

> that oil is used as a coolant
> that oil is pressurised to prevent from boiling

Both assertions are wrong because you cannot use added pressure to keep something from boiling.
Also oil has a poor heat transfer rate because it retains heat hence the use of the term "calories" which is a value to a fixed volume. This volume is the oil in the circuit.

Auxiliary parts of a jet engine that require coolants use kerosene or air. Oil is an incidental contributor.

Here is an entire university department working on air cooling jet engines;

A jet of coolant that is a significantly different temperature than the temperature of the gas flowing through the engine itself will have a different density. The density of the gas that flows through the engine divided by the density of the coolant gas is known as the density ratio. This is a very important controlling parameter in the operation of the engine cooling.

www.mne.psu.edu...

So you see, the primary cooling element is air and internally to a jet engine coolant gas may also be used. So please refer to the above quote about ratios.

The difference between coolant gas temperature and the temperature of gas in a jet engine is significant. The ratio of hot oil to a cooled oil is not significant because ratio is very low. It has a marginal effect. Oil is not used as a jet engine coolant.

The calories in the Exxon document is about the relative values of the oil itself and not the jet engine!

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
Both assertions are wrong because you cannot use added pressure to keep something from boiling.
Also oil has a poor heat transfer rate because it retains heat hence the use of the term "calories" which is a value to a fixed volume. This volume is the oil in the circuit.
...
The difference between coolant gas temperature and the temperature of gas in a jet engine is significant. The ratio of hot oil to a cooled oil is not significant because ratio is very low. It has a marginal effect. Oil is not used as a jet engine coolant.

I find it amusing that you'll go to any length to make yourself appear correct. You'll denigrate anyone and talk down to them, you'll deny even basic evidence ('prove that is an engine') and act as if you're the only educated person in the room.

Will you ever concede a point? Do you even have a theory about what happened that's remotely complete?

Doubt it.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeathwaypastvne made two statements;

> that oil is used as a coolant
> that oil is pressurised to prevent from boiling

Both assertions are wrong because you cannot use added pressure to keep something from boiling.

If boiling point increases with pressure, why can't you keep a liquid from boiling by increasing pressure? It seems pretty straightforward to me.

Originally posted by exponent

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
Both assertions are wrong because you cannot use added pressure to keep something from boiling.
Also oil has a poor heat transfer rate because it retains heat hence the use of the term "calories" which is a value to a fixed volume. This volume is the oil in the circuit.
...
The difference between coolant gas temperature and the temperature of gas in a jet engine is significant. The ratio of hot oil to a cooled oil is not significant because ratio is very low. It has a marginal effect. Oil is not used as a jet engine coolant.

I find it amusing that you'll go to any length to make yourself appear correct. You'll denigrate anyone and talk down to them, you'll deny even basic evidence ('prove that is an engine') and act as if you're the only educated person in the room.

Will you ever concede a point? Do you even have a theory about what happened that's remotely complete?

Doubt it.

I am offended and distressed by your comment. You are rude and presumptive. Where do you get off telling me I look down at people? Why should I concede when I know I am right?

No one can bully me into a position I do not agree with especially and anonymous opportunist and pursuer like you.

If you don't like what I believe; tough. Keep your rudeness to yourself.

Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath
I am offended and distressed by your comment. You are rude and presumptive. Where do you get off telling me I look down at people?

I read your posts. I also doubt you are 'offended and distressed'. I think that you're emotionally manipulative and believe yourself to be superior to every person who disagrees with you.

Why should I concede when I know I am right?

Because the facts show that you are wrong.

No one can bully me into a position I do not agree with especially and anonymous opportunist and pursuer like you.

If you don't like what I believe; tough. Keep your rudeness to yourself.

You are required to participate in a reasonable manner on this site. Insisting you are right, denigrating anyone who opposes you and then acting hurt when you are called on it is very dishonest.

I don't think you have any relevant knowledge or information, I think you've been duped by fools. You are as anonymous as me, but I have a long history of extensive posts detailing inconvenient facts. Your post history is littered with insults and arrogantly claiming other people know that you are right.

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Originally posted by MI5edtoDeath


waypastvne made two statements;

> that oil is used as a coolant
> that oil is pressurised to prevent from boiling

Both assertions are wrong because you cannot use added pressure to keep something from boiling.

Are you aware that people in higher elevations boil their water at a much lower temperature than people at sea level? This is because as pressure increases, the temperature at which the water begins to boil is significantly higher. Ever heard of superheated water? That is water that is still liquid under immense pressure and temperatures well above its "normal" boiling point at sea level.

Same is true for oil or other liquids.

chemistry.about.com...

The boiling point is the temperature at which the vapor pressure of a liquid equals the external pressure surrounding the liquid. Therefore, the boiling point of a liquid depends on atmospheric pressure. The boiling point becomes lower as the external pressure is reduced.

So you are inherently wrong.

deleted

double post

reply to post by GenRadek


What has anything you are saying got to do with my discussions. You just jump in and notice that I getting a kicking from seriously mistaken people and you come out with non sequiturs. Sheesh!!!!