Tim Pool, other OWS livestreamers raided, detained

reply to post by Phage


For what it's worth, my mom was in nursing school in 1969, and lived in Spanish Harlem right down the street from many of the protests, which she watched from her dorm or strolled beside on the weekends. She saw nothing but partying and drug-use, so maybe you have the same outsider perspective that she had, where it seems from the periphery like nothing is being done and there's no point.

Food for thought.

Wow this sucks!!

I was watching tim cast all night until he called it a night, then got arrested within an hour after that!??!!?!?

Hopefully he gets released for today...

Love tim cast... he doesnt try to spin anything at all, only cover what he sees

reply to post by morder1


He didn't get arrested, they just got detained. Unless something happened after the car and apartment raid?

OccupiedAir is back up now and streaming! Just a little pre-march lull right now, but getting some good stories from folks about the po-po action the night before. Broken bones, concussions, etc. They're all back out today---props to them! That's brave!

reply to post by Jakes51


So, would you care to go ahead and explain why the police are harassing people who aren't doing anything illegal?

Originally posted by Phage
Reminds of Stanford in 1972. "We" pissed of the pigs pretty good too.
"Tam, Tam he's your man. Send him off to Viet Nam!" I remember this scary looking chick with gloves ripping open a telephone switching cabinet in the Admin building. Instigator.

Stupid stuff.
I got out when the getting was good.

edit on 5/20/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Are there two phage id's?

perusing these forums , I have never known the "real" phage to comment on these types of posts.

I've noticed a few posts from other threads that don't seem typical of his responses?

Just wondering.. it seems odd.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
I am beginning to think that even though many of our problems originate from lawmakers at the top echelons of government, the problems that affect us most are being perpetrated by lower levels of government, where we are supposed to be heard the loudest.

Although I starred this post, the truth is that America's problems aren't primarily caused by her government, Jiggy.

America's real problem is the sort of person who replies to threads like this, which I made recently in an attempt to educate people about the evil of intellectual property law, and belligerently insist that the governmental or corporate position is justified, and that it is actually anyone who dissents who has the problem.

This is the real issue. America's population is largely made up of falsely rationalising traitors. Corporate or governmental apologists, and quislings. People who immediately go to the defense of the police, the corporations, or the government, no matter how obvious or heinous the crimes committed by these institutions may be. It's a case of the "Good Germans," all over again; and it is fairly likely to have exactly the same result in America, as it did in Germany.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Wookiep

 

From what I know of it...I really don't understand the point.
1) "Occupy". Nothing is being occupied. OWS just seems to make messes, they don't disrupt anything.

To the extent that Occupy play a positive or constructive role, they at times manage to achieve a number of different things.

a] They bring certain issues (corporate greed and corruption, governmental mismanagement) to people's attention.

b] Zucotti Park managed to successfully serve, in many people's minds, as a potential template for a positive future society.

c] Occupy Our Homes has managed to assist a number of people in avoiding unlawful house foreclosures, and continues to do so.

d] Occupy have a tendency to offer food and/or medical attention of various kinds to local disadvantaged or homeless people, in the areas where they set up. This and the above point are examples of working groups which they can and do set up within a given area, in order to help people. As a result of this, they can essentially be considered a form of mobile charitable organisation, in general terms.

e] Occupy are generally nowhere near as unhygienic, in reality, as the authorities claim. The "sanitation," excuse to get rid of them, was first used at Zucotti Park. It was a lie back then, and it has generally continued to be ever since.

f] Occupy can be considered largely responsible for bringing the concept of direct, participatory democracy back into public attention. The General Assemblies are a fairly close replication of what you would have seen in Athens or Sparta, and given how completely and relentlessly fascist Western society is becoming in comparison, from a libertarian perspective, that should be considered a good thing.

With these positives, however, Occupy do also, in honesty, have some other characteristics which can be less than positive, depending on your own outlook.

a] It is true that the movement as a whole, does not have any clear, specifically defined objective. Some here will say that it involves putting "the 1%," or "the banksters," in jail, but this is vague, and you generally will not here them mention which particular banksters they are referring to. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Alan Greenspan or David Rockefeller, as two examples, spend the rest of their lives behind bars; but as I said, Occupy generally don't name names, probably because it could be dangerous to do so.

b] Although individual, regional groups can be bipartisan, at an archetypical/institutional/memetic level, Occupy are hard core, passionate, radical disciples of Karl Marx. You'll hear a lot of talk about unions and labour issues, advocacy of general strikes, and an Occupy drinking game could be to take a shot of Wild Turkey, whenever the word "solidarity," comes up. Gandhi and MLK are also revered. While Occupy's spokespeople will generally strenuously deny the accusation of Communism, Ensign Chekov should be quoted in response; "If the shoe fits, wear it."

The ideology which inspired the authorship of the American Constitution, exists on the opposite side of the political aisle from Marx. The Constitutional framers, and Ron Paul in that sense, are correctly considered Libertarian Right. Occupy, on the other hand, generally speaking, are overwhelmingly Libertarian Left. So technically speaking, of the two movements, the Tea Party can be considered closer to Mom, apple pie, and baseball, although it should also be said that the American police have proven themselves to be just as willing to bash and denigrate as "tea baggers," adherents of the Right who believe in the Second Amendment, among other things.

Ironically, it must also be said that some of the ways in which Occupy's Communism deviates from America's political and economic heritage, are actually extremely positive. Altruism and charity are generally not considered American forms of behaviour. America's economic culture is usually derived from the likes of Rand and von Mises, who both advocated exclusive self-interest.

So again, Occupy giving people free food, (and running things like a free library, as was done at Zucotti Park) although it is an extremely positive, compassionate, and humanistically affirming form of behaviour, would usually be more associated either with European Socialism, or the Hindu (Indian) concept of Karma Yoga, rather than America's customary psychopathic Capitalism, which Occupy are, of course, primarily attempting to protest against.

c] As a consequence of the above, conservatives in particular, aren't likely to approve of all of the company which Occupy are sometimes willing to keep. There's an old saying in Leftist circles, that if you're completely comfortable with all of the allies you have sitting at your table, then that means that you haven't cast your net widely enough. I've also written before that one of the primary differences between the Left and Right, is that the Right is generally defined by who it is willing to exclude, whereas the Left are generally defined by who they are willing to include.

In Occupy's case, this generally translates to the likes of Code Pink. Whether or not Occupy explicitly acknowledge association with them or not, you might also see hints of Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, and similar environmental groups who are commonly considered to live at variable distances from the fringes of mainstream human society. Given that I'm currently writing this while staying in Nimbin, (and from my avatar, perhaps) it can be assumed that I'm very comfortable among the socially and ideologically unorthodox; I watched a lot of Star Trek, growing up.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by knoledgeispower

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by robhines

 

Liberate yourself!

Go march with your brethren!

After all, takes an ewe to know you!

everyone around the world needs to stand together. Not just American citizens

If Americans do it, the world will follow..

There are countries already revolting, everyone else needs to join in, not just America. Iceland is revolting, even Montreal in Quebec, Canada is having a small little revolt.
Everyone around the world needs to unite as one and stand up and fight for our freedom before we are enslaved. We are running out of time and soon it will be too late and we will all go through horrible times as slaves to the those who are taking away our freedoms as we speak. Look at the stuff they are passing in existing bills.
We need to act now!

There are countries already revolting, everyone else needs to join in, not just America. Iceland is revolting, even Montreal in Quebec, Canada is having a small little revolt. Everyone around the world needs to unite as one and stand up and fight for our freedom before we are enslaved. We are running out of time and soon it will be too late and we will all go through horrible times as slaves to the those who are taking away our freedoms as we speak. Look at the stuff they are passing in existing bills. We need to act now!

Its time to start voting for politicians who will make the change. Writing to congressmen and people who are in power. Large amounts of people letting the ones in power know what we will and won't vote for makes more sense than jamming up streets, and using up precious tax dollars on police protection.

Instigating riots, and calling down officers who are just trying to do a job will do nothing positive in the long run.
It will only cause distress for the innocent business people, and those trying to get to and from their jobs , etc.

If you want to see people rounded up like cattle, then just keep telling them to join in futile marches, that cause disturbance to businesses, and dissension among the forces trying to keep order.

How about we send all the protestors to you neighborhood for a month. See how well that goes down.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


There was a lot of disturbance to the neighborhoods of Selma, Birmingham, Memphis, Atlanta, etc, a few decades ago. Innocent businesses were damaged and lost revenue. And an entire subsection of citizens got equal rights. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs. Marches are a lot less futile than being a keyboard jockey telling everyone what they're doing wrong, yet doing nothing right yourself.

And I don't know about you, but it's pretty hard to know the heart and mind of any person willing to run for office, especially when they have millions of other people besides yourself to represent. Vote for the right person? Can you give us that formula? Half the country thought they were voting for the right person for the first time in their lives in 2008, and look where that got us. Unless the person you're voting for has never, ever been involved in politics in any way whatsoever, chances are they're a stooge too. Put a little guy in federal office and see how quickly the millions of dollars of kickbacks from lobbyists change his mind about his ideals. It's all a joke, we're too damn big to not be corrupt or to know who we're voting for and to be able to hold those people accountable on any personal level.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

There are countries already revolting, everyone else needs to join in, not just America. Iceland is revolting, even Montreal in Quebec, Canada is having a small little revolt. Everyone around the world needs to unite as one and stand up and fight for our freedom before we are enslaved. We are running out of time and soon it will be too late and we will all go through horrible times as slaves to the those who are taking away our freedoms as we speak. Look at the stuff they are passing in existing bills. We need to act now!

Its time to start voting for politicians who will make the change. Writing to congressmen and people who are in power. Large amounts of people letting the ones in power know what we will and won't vote for makes more sense than jamming up streets, and using up precious tax dollars on police protection.

Instigating riots, and calling down officers who are just trying to do a job will do nothing positive in the long run.
It will only cause distress for the innocent business people, and those trying to get to and from their jobs , etc.

If you want to see people rounded up like cattle, then just keep telling them to join in futile marches, that cause disturbance to businesses, and dissension among the forces trying to keep order.

How about we send all the protestors to you neighborhood for a month. See how well that goes down.

edit on 22-5-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

We need a complete change in our governments, not just the people but the power they have, how they are elected, the whole system needs an overhaul. It's as crooked as a $3 bill. We need to stop Corporations too and their roll they play in governments. We need to do a complete overhaul of the control religion has over the people. Both the Church and the Governments have been holding back our advancements for at least the last couple hundred years.

I don't agree with the way that people are handling things. Violence, destroying property, it's disgusting and totally ruining the chances of anyone wanting to actually stand up and say enough is enough. There are better ways of handling this then the way they are doing it but still be revolting. Do you really want to be a slave and future generations to be enslaved? We are running out of precious time. See the whole picture, not just part of it. Take a step back.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

There was a lot of disturbance to the neighborhoods of Selma, Birmingham, Memphis, Atlanta, etc, a few decades ago. Innocent businesses were damaged and lost revenue. And an entire subsection of citizens got equal rights. Sometimes you have to crack a few eggs. Marches are a lot less futile than being a keyboard jockey telling everyone what they're doing wrong, yet doing nothing right yourself.

And I don't know about you, but it's pretty hard to know the heart and mind of any person willing to run for office, especially when they have millions of other people besides yourself to represent. Vote for the right person? Can you give us that formula? Half the country thought they were voting for the right person for the first time in their lives in 2008, and look where that got us. Unless the person you're voting for has never, ever been involved in politics in any way whatsoever, chances are they're a stooge too. Put a little guy in federal office and see how quickly the millions of dollars of kickbacks from lobbyists change his mind about his ideals. It's all a joke, we're too damn big to not be corrupt or to know who we're voting for and to be able to hold those people accountable on any personal level.

So what you are saying is that humanity is screwed because even the good, just person who is voted in will change if offered enough money.

I disagree with you.

But..if you are right, could you tell me how demonstrating against the corruption in humanity will change that?

I don't see how blocking traffic, causing millions of tax dollars to be wasted on security is going to help the problems we face. In fact I think it may do more damage than good in the long haul.

I agree the system is corrupt, but if we can't believe that a democratic vote, can change the power structure to some degree, how does a demonstration help? Raising awareness is going to change anything according to you..so what is the best way to get actual change happening.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


It forces the issue into the forefront, instead of allowing people to just push it to the back burner and keep kicking the can and other such platitudes. Everyone knows there's a problem, yet their desire to continue living in comfort makes them choose to do nothing. OWS, and all of the other people around the world who are actually literally blocking streets with their cars like in France, are putting a stop to the ignoring and denying any further. They're forcing people to either side with them and bring down the corrupt system, or stand against them and at least admit that they're part of and supporting the corrupt system.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

It forces the issue into the forefront, instead of allowing people to just push it to the back burner and keep kicking the can and other such platitudes. Everyone knows there's a problem, yet their desire to continue living in comfort makes them choose to do nothing. OWS, and all of the other people around the world who are actually literally blocking streets with their cars like in France, are putting a stop to the ignoring and denying any further. They're forcing people to either side with them and bring down the corrupt system, or stand against them and at least admit that they're part of and supporting the corrupt system.

and unfortunately everyone has become comfortably numb. "Life isn't too bad right now, why do anything?" time's running out and soon they will be slaves and mad that nothing was done to stop it.
They have no idea how much better of a life they can have if only they put some hard work in.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

It forces the issue into the forefront, instead of allowing people to just push it to the back burner and keep kicking the can and other such platitudes. Everyone knows there's a problem, yet their desire to continue living in comfort makes them choose to do nothing. OWS, and all of the other people around the world who are actually literally blocking streets with their cars like in France, are putting a stop to the ignoring and denying any further. They're forcing people to either side with them and bring down the corrupt system, or stand against them and at least admit that they're part of and supporting the corrupt system.

Most people already know and are aware, demonstrating in the streets , blocking access, and costing the tax payers more money, isn't going to endear them to "the people", and their cause.

As well , I ask you how they are bringing "down" the corrupt government? Whatever means they do this, will not be by force, because that will lead to more chaos , with some really good people that could make a difference possibly dying.

reply to post by knoledgeispower

and unfortunately everyone has become comfortably numb. "Life isn't too bad right now, why do anything?" time's running out and soon they will be slaves and mad that nothing was done to stop it. They have no idea how much better of a life they can have if only they put some hard work in.

and exactly what is this "hard work" you speak of.

Show me the plan step by step, and I may understand and work harder.

Causing traffic jams, instigating riots, and screaming "we won't take this anymore", doesn't seem to be much of a plan.

I understand and support that things need to change. What I am asking is what is actually the MOST effective plan that has a probability of actually turning things around.

I see demonstrations as a bunch of noise that will only bring about more policing, more laws against freedom, all on the tax payers dime.

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
reply to post by knoledgeispower

 

and unfortunately everyone has become comfortably numb. "Life isn't too bad right now, why do anything?" time's running out and soon they will be slaves and mad that nothing was done to stop it. They have no idea how much better of a life they can have if only they put some hard work in.

and exactly what is this "hard work" you speak of.

Show me the plan step by step, and I may understand and work harder.

Causing traffic jams, instigating riots, and screaming "we won't take this anymore", doesn't seem to be much of a plan.

I understand and support that things need to change. What I am asking is what is actually the MOST effective plan that has a probability of actually turning things around.

I see demonstrations as a bunch of noise that will only bring about more policing, more laws against freedom, all on the tax payers dime.

edit on 23-5-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

You need to look at the bigger picture. There are a lot of radicals out in the crowds of demonstrators and it's making the whole demonstration seem like a big headache. Look at what has been accomplished by people coming together and having a large demonstration.
This a small excerpt from an article on Wikipedia about a large march that was the first step to a long plan to reach freedom for the people of India. article

The Salt Satyagraha campaign was based upon Gandhi's principles of nonviolent protest called satyagraha, which he loosely translated as "truth-force."[7] Literally, it is formed from the Sanskrit words satya, "truth", and agraha, "asking for." In early 1930 the Indian National Congress chose satyagraha as their main tactic for winning Indian independence from British rule and appointed Gandhi to organize the campaign. Gandhi chose the 1882 British Salt Act as the first target of satyagraha. The Salt March to Dandi, and the beating by British police of hundreds of nonviolent protesters in Dharasana, which received worldwide news coverage, demonstrated the effective use of civil disobedience as a technique for fighting social and political injustice.[8] The satyagraha teachings of Gandhi and the March to Dandi had a significant influence on American civil rights activist Martin Luther King, Jr., and his fight for civil rights for blacks and other minority groups in the 1960s.[9]

I do not have all the answers as to what needs to be done to keep from being enslaved, I wish I did. All I know is that we need to educate people around the world as to what is going on. They need to see for themselves, look at all the information and then act upon it. Demonstrations have worked in the past, we just need those who seek violence and to do damage to smarten up. They are only hurting the cause and doing nothing but making our freedoms get taken away faster.
We are running out of time. If it comes down to it we may be forced to skip the educating and get right down to demonstrating. Again, I don't have all the answers, I don't know what it's going to take, all I know is that demonstrating on the streets is better then sitting at home doing nothing. I would like to be out there too but it's too unsafe for just myself, I need to get a group first

Originally posted by knoledgeispower
The satyagraha teachings of Gandhi and the March to Dandi had a significant influence on American civil rights activist Martin Luther King, Jr., and his fight for civil rights for blacks and other minority groups in the 1960s.[9]

The Gandhi Game

It is a significant limitation of noncooperation that it can only succeed if one's adversary, no matter how harsh, unjust and imperialist, is also somewhat honorable and is reluctant to use or endorse violence. Gandhi was successful with the British who (with a few exceptions such as Amritsar) did not commit massacres; but he would have died on the first day of opposition against the amoral, treacherous and violent Nazis, who would have executed him and all his followers and thrown them in a pit. In other words, there must be something about the adversary that makes it clear that the grounds for cooperation already exist. If the adversary will not stop short of any act of cruelty or murder, noncooperation is not an option and the only available responses are violence or silence.

Gandhi's strategy only works, as described above, when the enemy do not defect. The strategy requires the enemy to have the same degree of integrity as the group employing said strategy. If the enemy are psychopaths, it simply results in mass murder.

Generally speaking, the Left do not mention or revere either Gandhi or MLK because they really know much about either of these men, but usually simply because they have mutually brainwashed themselves to do so.

Marxism as a political philosophy is also based, first and foremost, on victimhood; and the level of mutually reinforced mind control among Marxists, as noted, is generally very high. Street level, Leftist activism, similar to Gandhi's strategy, is an act that is motivated by a mentality with a number of undesirable elements.

a] It presupposes a condition of utterly disempowered, non-sovereign victimhood, more than anything else. The idea is that there is a group of people external to you, and other than you, who are doing something to you, which is occurring entirely without your consent, and over which you have no control.

b] It presupposes an attitude of moral superiority on the part of the protestors, relative to the group being targetted. Hunger strikes, and related forms of protest which are primarily appeals to victimhood, attempt to function by shaming the opposition into taking a different form of action, on the basis of the assumption that the opposition is capable of compassion or a conscience. In most contemporary cases, this is an entirely erroneous assumption. The contemporary opposition are total psychopaths. They will defect quite happily.

The Left falsely assumes that Wall Street and the government do not murder the lot of them, because Wall Street and the government have a conscience. This is an incorrect assumption. The reason why the corporatocracy has not yet murdered all of you, is simply because doing so would cause a condition in which their actions would no longer become remotely justifiable in the minds of the rest of the population, and they would then lose control. It is not, for one moment, because of their own empathy or honour, however, and you grossly deceive yourself if you believe otherwise.

c] Leftist prostest generally confines itself to forms which feel good to the protestors, as opposed to those forms which might be genuinely effective, but which are deemed inconvenient to said protestors.

The main example I am talking about here, is the concept of the boycott. Occupy should boycott mobile phones, for a set period of time. They should resolve both not to use mobile phones, and not to pay for mobile phone credit, for the longest tolerable period; perhaps 72 hours, at first.

Given that, as mentioned, the opposition are psychopaths, the only thing of concern or value to them is money. They do not care how long Occupy camp or stay in the street, and they also do not NEED to care, because Occupy are still paying for mobile phone and Internet credit, and will still go to Starbuck's afterwards.

As a result, if Occupy really want to pose a threat to the corporate machine, in the only real manner that they can, they must boycott.