A theory of proof of a God

reply to post by LightSource

Matter does not act like matter unless it is "observed".

This is the popular perception, much promoted in New Age circles and consumerized by a video entitled 'What the Bleep Do We Know?'

It is not, however, true. No physicist believes that conscious observation determines any physical outcome. That's right, no physicist. Not one.

What really happens to matter at quantum scales is too complicated to explain in this thread, but it all comes about through matter interacting with matter. None of the matter has to be living. The universe – the real universe – doesn't need an observer to exist.

There are people who believe that things only exist in the mind, but that is a philosophical position the physical sciences can never confirm or deny.

(Those curious about how these quantum paradoxes are explained by science may find some answers in the posts I made on this thread. Not that I'm an expert or anything. )

reply to post by LightSource


I think time is as linear as communication/language is.

16 years before the original Star Trek ever aired on tv an actor destined to play the role of a Star Trek Capt. was born and named.....




Perhaps the powers that be have already pierced time.... or a future the past and present have waged war upon have decided to respond accordingly to our attacks? If not... at least it sounds like a good hollywood plot for a movie a few years down the road.

Originally posted by LightSource

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by LightSource
Hi-

So my thought on the whole thing is that if matter does not act like matter unless it is "observed" then the universe was not created until it was "observed". Now I don't go to church however, I do believe in God or something to that effect. In the bible when God said "let there be light" and there was light, and that there was nothing before "God" then the universe became the universe when "God" became "aware" (I guess that would be my thought on it). Anyhow, i'm not saying that the bible is right but I do feel that this experiment shows that matter does not act like matter unless it is observed and is proof that our universe was formed out of someone one or something observing it.

Whether observing them or not, when photons are first released aren't they particles, which turn into waves just before passing through the slits in the double slit experiment?

It's late, so I'm probably not thinking clearly. This is about the double slit experiment. Right? So, you are basing your theory on the idea that we are living in a double-slit experiment. If I remember correctly the photons acted like matter as soon as they were released, but then changed to a wave when confronted with the slits.

I thought the experiment showed that without the observer the photons acted like both, a particle and a wave?

Matter is not suppose to act like a wave and its not until it is observed that it acts like it is suppose to. So all the the matter in the universe shouldn't act like it is unless it was "observed" first.

reply to post by LightSource


I just watched a cartoon. Ani freaking mation !

For real ?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by LightSource

 

I just watched a cartoon. Ani freaking mation !

For real ?

So because its a cartoon its not real or something?

here maybe a "real" video will help for you

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by LightSource

 

NO! The Double Slit Experiment is using Light or PHOTONS...which as a particle of ENERGY and a Quantum Particle at that.

Matter is comprised of many things....particles of Mass...such as Protons and Neutrons. Matter also is comprised of Particle/Wave forms of Energy...Electrons. You really should read up on this but I will give a quick lesson.

After the Big Bang...close to 14 Billion Years ago....it took awhile for things to cool down enough to Create Celestial Bodies. Stars are Suns and Planets that orbit Stars do so as they have become caught up in a Stars Gravity Well which occurs whenever an object of Mass exists. The amount of Mass is derived from the total number of Protons and if an Atom has them...Neutrons are present. An Atom is an Element and the simplest form of Atoms or an Element is Hydrogen...represemted on the periodic table as H. Hydrogen has one Proton and One Electron. So since only Protons and Netrons determine Mass and it is called RELATIVE ATOMIC MASS BASED ON THE AVERAGE OF THE NUMBER OF ISOTOPES. So the Mass of Hydrogen is 1 and the Atomic Number is 1 since the Atomic Number is based on the quantity of Electrons an Atom has.

When enough Matter is concentrated by it's own Gravitational effect upon warping space an incorrect but easy to understand principle to ONLY REPRESENT...NOT ACTUALLY DESCRIBE WHAT IS HAPPENING TO SPACE/TIME when alot of matter and at the early stages after the Big Bang there was only Quantum Particles and Hydrogen....imagine placing a Bowling Ball in the Middle of a Bed Sheet that 4 people are holding taunt. The Bowling Ball bends the sheet around it to a greater extent the closer the are of the entire sheet is to the ball. This is like Gravity in that the Bowling Ball is the Hydrogen that Collected by Gravitational attraction between particles and collected to such an extent that it created a warping of space to such a degree that it condensed the Hydrogen and other Quantum Materials to such a point that the process of Thermonuclear Fusion Began and our Star was created. Fusion is the process by which Hydrogen or Molecular Elemental Groups of Hydrogen...Fused to become Helium and we all know what a H-Bomb is...now imagine one in such an immmense scale that it has enough Hydrogen to last Billions of Years before if fuses it all and at that point may become a Small Red Dwarf after expanding into a Red Giant which would be large enough to encompass a Diameter all the way out pass Mars. If it should go Supernova and small Suns like ours seldom do but if it did....it would explode and create an explosion so large that people who lived in a Neighboring Galaxy could observe it. All Heavt Elements are derived from Supernova Explosions so at first we get Hydrogen and Helium and a few other low mass elements...then Supernovas provide the Universe with Heavy Relative Atomic Mass Elements like Plutonium, Gold, Uranium...etc....so every Atom that comprises the Human Body is made from the STARS! Split Infinity

Umm it was done with ELECTRONS as well which it also said in the video maybe you didn't watch it. Some people don't like cartoons here is a "real" video

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by LightSource

So because its a cartoon its not real or something?

Lets just say it leaves me skeptical. I'll look at the one you posted.

And how was that any different from the cartoon ?

Originally posted by LightSource
We are all just made up of atoms anyways why don't we just fly apart?

Because God observes each and every one of us

reply to post by DominusIlluminatioMea

Because God observes each and every one of us

Wow ! Who was that masked man ?

How do you know what matter acts like....if it knows you're watching? How do you check matter in it's "unwatched" state? How? Explain that? Are they recording matter on the sneak tip? On the downlow? You can't just assume that matter acts one way when being observed and another way when not being observed....because...well....that would be IMPOSSIBLE.

Also, do we really need a theory of a "God"? So i guess, people must be blind, right? They can't seeeeeee there is a CREATOR? As smart as mankind is.....are we really that stupid....or arrogant? Everything on our planet, just "happened", by chance? ahahahahahahahhahahaha That's FUUUUUUN-NYYYYY! I dont need a B.I.B.L.E. to tell me the OBVIOUS. LOOK AROUND YOU! Trees, animals, food, water, earth, sun, stars, planet, universe. What more 'theory' does one need?

Here's a theory: we're floating in mid-air. Ever think of THAT? Nothing around us....but.......SPACE! We live on a ball (or square spinning so fast it looks like a ball), of water and dirt...suspended in mid-air.

God, what God?

I think we'll all find out what's real when we die. =D

Originally posted by ILikeStars
reply to post by LightSource

 

I think time is as linear as communication/language is.

lin·e·ar
(ln-r)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or resembling a line; straight.
2.
a. In, of, describing, described by, or related to a straight line.
b. Having only one dimension.
3. Characterized by, composed of, or emphasizing drawn lines rather than painterly effects.
4. Botany Narrow and elongated with nearly parallel margins: a linear leaf.

Huh?

There is no finite "test tube" that has the capacity to hold the infinite structure of God. Nor can any test equipment that is composed of finite dimension materials. Nor can any human brain composed of a finite number of neurons achieve withholding infinite Mind.

Only through the Proxy, that is the Presence, is any consciousness capable of an infinitesimal duration spark that will change a person forever. Then spend the rest of ones life dissecting what happened at that Moment.

No one can place the Presence into a transferable medium and plant it inside another. Although we try with art, music, religions. All those are just the breeeze given off by the moving shadow. Yet It is available to anyone that wants It more than they want their next breath. Only (probably) then will It be yours.

Originally posted by LightSource
Matter is not suppose to act like a wave and its not until it is observed that it acts like it is suppose to. So all the the matter in the universe shouldn't act like it is unless it was "observed" first.

What if the reason for this is because we've simply zoomed in too far, and our eyes are not good enough to see what's actually there. Remember, our sight is not true absolute sight. It is our brain's interpretation of the light signals that travel from the eye to the brain. Maybe this distortion, is us observing the act of observation. On the tiniest level I'm sure that everything interacts, but that might just be because we have zoomed in more than we should. It doesn't have anything to do with god, though.

This is what the indivisible constituents of atomic nuclei look like:
smphillips.8m.com...
They conform to the Kabbalistic and Pythagorean representations of God. The proof can be found here.
Remote-viewed over a century ago, they were proved in the 1990s to be the subquark state of the E8xE8 heterotic superstring. Nobel prize winners, Fellows of the Royal Society, professors of physics and Indian government science ministers have endorsed the conclusions of this research, some privately, some in public.
The structure in 10-dimensional space-time of these yet-to-be-discovered particles and their E8xE8 symmetry of their unified forces have been shown to be embodied in the sacred geometries depicting the nature of God of several religions and to be mathematically determined by means of gematria by the ancient Hebrew Names of God. Study the research articles and material at the website linked to above.

Everything ultimately is of the nature of God. There is nothing but God.

Originally posted by LightSource
Hi-

So the other day I was on here and I read a thread and watched a video on the double slit experiment which was amazing. It basically says that matter acts as a wave when not observed and in the act of observing it then acts as "normal" matter. Here is the link to the short 5 minute video.

www.youtube.com...

So my thought on the whole thing is that if matter does not act like matter unless it is "observed" then the universe was not created until it was "observed". Now I don't go to church however, I do believe in God or something to that effect. In the bible when God said "let there be light" and there was light, and that there was nothing before "God" then the universe became the universe when "God" became "aware" (I guess that would be my thought on it). Anyhow, i'm not saying that the bible is right but I do feel that this experiment shows that matter does not act like matter unless it is observed and is proof that our universe was formed out of someone one or something observing it.

If you think that's weird stuff, try explaining what I did this morning: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Unless a theist here can explain how one Creates "Existence" itself so itself can exist, the argument of "Creationism", or the concept of a GOD that magically creates "everything" is meaningless. Let me help here to not only show true origins, but also disprove the existence of a GOD often argued by Christians, Jews, and Muslims ect :

What is GOD without Existence?

Well? ... Well you learn what is Causality, that which actually governs what is, what will be, what can ever be, and sets the foundations of anything in and of existence..All things are bound to the rules of existence itself, and all things are governed by those rules. That includes any conscious entity.... There is no GOD of existence but existence itself.. And existence simply exists without creation simply due to the fact that non-existence can not be a literal existing person, place, object, substance, or thing.. But hey, if you want proof of GOD, the Pantheist GOD to which is existence itself does exist. And after all, it is the other theists begging us to believe their GOD must exist.. Must suck to require the GOD of another religion to even have a hope to the existence of their own GOD. And so much for polytheism at that point since it would be a futile effort in denying the existence of the Pantheist GOD from a Christian perspective.. Worse yet, existence doesn't require any conscious entity to exist..It's the other way around and clearly demonstrated in that simple little question..:

What is GOD without Existence?

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man.

Last time I checked, it was existence itself that is first cause. Also, anything reliant on cognitive systems, such as a conscious state, are highly complex and would require far more cause to exist than pretty much everything you claim or think magically requires it. Your biggest clue to the folly of your argument is simply the difference between a rock and anything with a conscious state. Did you even bother to consider what is required for a conscious state to even be possible? And worst of all, anything of higher power ect will require far more cause to exist than anything of lower power. Yep, the highest levels can't exist without first the lowest possible levels..And that includes conscious states.. It's the ground states that are the most important. And you can't create that which yourself require to exist, function, or do anything at all.

Originally posted by TheJackelantern

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man.

Last time I checked, it was existence itself that is first cause. Also, anything reliant on cognitive systems, such as a conscious state, are highly complex and would require far more cause to exist than pretty much everything you claim or think magically requires it. Your biggest clue to the folly of your argument is simply the difference between a rock and anything with a conscious state. Did you even bother to consider what is required for a conscious state to even be possible? And worst of all, anything of higher power ect will require far more cause to exist than anything of lower power. Yep, the highest levels can't exist without first the lowest possible levels..And that includes conscious states.. It's the ground states that are the most important. And you can't create that which yourself require to exist, function, or do anything at all.

edit on 22-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: simple corrections..

last time i checked there was no way for you to check what the first cause is.,.,..,,.

so what dumb blind unconscious magical nonmagician caused a rock to form,,,, or how did a rock come into existence by itself? how could anything come into existence "uncaused"?

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by TheJackelantern

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man.

Last time I checked, it was existence itself that is first cause. Also, anything reliant on cognitive systems, such as a conscious state, are highly complex and would require far more cause to exist than pretty much everything you claim or think magically requires it. Your biggest clue to the folly of your argument is simply the difference between a rock and anything with a conscious state. Did you even bother to consider what is required for a conscious state to even be possible? And worst of all, anything of higher power ect will require far more cause to exist than anything of lower power. Yep, the highest levels can't exist without first the lowest possible levels..And that includes conscious states.. It's the ground states that are the most important. And you can't create that which yourself require to exist, function, or do anything at all.

edit on 22-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: simple corrections..

last time i checked there was no way for you to check what the first cause is.,.,..,,.

so what dumb blind unconscious magical nonmagician caused a rock to form,,,, or how did a rock come into existence by itself? how could anything come into existence "uncaused"?

Try making that statement without existence. And there must first be existence before you have any hope of existing. And let me explain something to you.. A rock can form simply because energy can interfere with itself . This to which for the same reason a snowflake can form without any conscious entity, or that a Universe could be born from a quantum fluctuation.. And the origin is also determined by what something is made of.. And everything is made of energy to which includes energy itself. And you can't create something from "nothing" as nothing doesn't exist. Hence, you can't take what doesn't exist and make something out of it. Just like a painter can't literally make his or her paints, he or she can only use what already exists to make paints with. And as we know, energy is the foundational property value of everything including itself as it is a Universal set of all sets. That includes information and energy as being two sides of the same coin..Your own computers proves this point alone. If it weren't, and if it couldn't interfere with itself, you or me wouldn't exist, and your computer wouldn't work. In fact, you couldn't have a cognitive system without it. But hey, if you want to get into why a conscious entity can't exist without cause, I can go into information science and theory if need be..

Edit:

So how about you answer the question I asked here:

What is GOd without Existence?