A theory of proof of a God, page 6

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reply posted on 29-7-2012 @ 03:49 PM by ImaFungi

reply to post by TheJackelantern

" All this entity would be, is a stage in the process that did create us. Do we call ourselves GOD's because we can build things? No.. And it's fundamentally the same thing.. "

so your only problem is with the word god and its connotations,

like sergeant and general,, and so on,,,, its all about this system of rankings,,, you dont see the value of difference in ability,,,, between ( if something created the universe) whatever created the universe) and the creative abilities of a dog? you see know difference? this is what i was trying to speak on before about measurement and value,,, you lump it all in one general category,,, so there can never be any objective purpose, meaning,, for everything is only a clusterduck of relativity,,,, the creative ability of a worm and a dustmite is equal to that of einstein and the engineers at NASA because all subjects exist and all subjects create,,, ?

reply posted on 29-7-2012 @ 04:00 PM by ImaFungi

reply to post by TheJackelantern

you mention some things from the bible,, and once again i will say mans religion and opinions have nothing to do with there being a potential creator of this universe,,,

"I properly apply infinite regress to actually establish actual origins... The argument to worship another entity as GOD is silly. If someone created a clone human, should that clone human worship those whom cloned he/she as "GOD" ? .. Uhh no, that would be ridiculous and silly."

this is once again about very minor human emotions and perception of definitions of words such as God and worship,.,.,. noone should be forced to worship their creator,,,, but its more like having an awareness that there exists forces and causes and events in the past which have given you the opportunity to exist as yourself and experience and learn everything you have an ever will do,,,, do you love your parents for creating you? you do not need to worship them,,, all we have been talking about is an intellectual acknowledgment that there may exist some force and structure similar to what we call an intelligence which intended for our universe to come about,.,.., whatever that source is for the way nature is now,,, and what can be experience from our internal and external nature,, that event which is all we know is our creator,,, it is just another set of parents we should respect, revere,, maybe even love,.,..,.,.

reply posted on 29-7-2012 @ 06:16 PM by TheJackelantern

so your only problem is with the word god and its connotations,

Nope, that also involves why the concept itself is moot to begin with under the context it's used. Everything and anything can be considered or labeled GOD. And thus by opinion alone everything and anything is GOD. And then Existence to which is everything and anything can be considered GOD, and that would make everything and anything GOD.. The concept of GOD then can be refuted by opinion to where everything and anything isn't a GOD. Here to where existence can be considered not a GOD and that would make everything and anything not a GOD. By all means of circularity of opinion, or the concept itself makes the concept is utterly moot. So narcissism ect is just icing on this moot cake.

but its more like having an awareness that there exists forces and causes and events in the past which have given you the opportunity to exist as yourself and experience and learn everything you have an ever will do,

Again one needs to properly apply infinite regress to really establish "origins" . My own mother played a roll, so who's or what's GOD then? Which part of this process is going to get credited to my origins? Well, if I am honest, I have to apply infinite regress to figure that out.

edit on 29-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 29-7-2012 @ 06:53 PM by ImaFungi

reply to post by TheJackelantern

"Nope, that also involves why the concept itself is moot to begin with under the context it's used. Everything and anything can be considered or labeled GOD. And thus by opinion alone everything and anything is GOD. And then Existence to which is everything and anything can be considered GOD, and that would make everything and anything GOD.. The concept of GOD then can be refuted by opinion to where everything and anything isn't a GOD. Here to where existence can be considered not a GOD and that would make everything and anything not a GOD. By all means of circularity of opinion, or the concept itself makes the concept is utterly moot. So narcissism ect is just icing on this moot cake. "

well when thinking of the potential godlike creator of the universe,,,, that creator would be revered and labeled as "God" ( creator of this universe) because of its assumed value and possession of power, control, and intelligence,,,, its creation could become more knowing and powerful then it,,,, just as humans computers can compute and hold more information then a human,,,, all information of human history is stored on a computer and any of it can be accessed in micromoments,,,, The concept of God is that a powerful and intelligent and capable source created the universe,,,, you can use this word to define this original gods creation,,, and say its creation can create and it exists so it is god too,,,,, but i would say yes,,, it is god 2.0 ( compared relatively to the original creator of this universe,, if hypothetically there were one)

reply posted on 29-7-2012 @ 07:37 PM by TheJackelantern

well when thinking of the potential godlike creator of the universe,,,, that creator would be revered and labeled as "God" ( creator of this universe) because of its assumed value and possession of power, control, and intelligence,,,, its creation could become more knowing and powerful then it,,,, just as humans computers can compute and hold more information then a human,,,, all information of human history is stored on a computer and any of it can be accessed in micromoments,,,, The concept of God is that a powerful and intelligent and capable source created the universe,,,, you can use this word to define this original gods creation,,, and say its creation can create and it exists so it is god too,,,,, but i would say yes,,, it is god 2.0 ( compared relatively to the original creator of this universe,, if hypothetically there were one)

And again the source origin is existence itself. Thus again making it moot since that would then make everything GOD.. We all make up how this universe forms and pans out as we are literally a part of it...There is no I in team there..All the interacting forces and parts are what drives the machine. So again, properly applying infinite regress shows why, on top of the concept issue above, that the concept of GOD is moot.

edit on 29-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 30-7-2012 @ 02:10 PM by ImaFungi

Originally posted by TheJackelantern

well when thinking of the potential godlike creator of the universe,,,, that creator would be revered and labeled as "God" ( creator of this universe) because of its assumed value and possession of power, control, and intelligence,,,, its creation could become more knowing and powerful then it,,,, just as humans computers can compute and hold more information then a human,,,, all information of human history is stored on a computer and any of it can be accessed in micromoments,,,, The concept of God is that a powerful and intelligent and capable source created the universe,,,, you can use this word to define this original gods creation,,, and say its creation can create and it exists so it is god too,,,,, but i would say yes,,, it is god 2.0 ( compared relatively to the original creator of this universe,, if hypothetically there were one)

And again the source origin is existence itself. Thus again making it moot since that would then make everything GOD.. We all make up how this universe forms and pans out as we are literally a part of it...There is no I in team there..All the interacting forces and parts are what drives the machine. So again, properly applying infinite regress shows why, on top of the concept issue above, that the concept of GOD is moot.
edit on 29-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

so if you were to build and fill up an ant farm,,, those ants can logically think they are as powerful,, intelligent,,knowing and able as you? they can also logically claim they created the universe?

reply posted on 31-7-2012 @ 12:19 AM by TheJackelantern

reply to post by ImaFungi

Nope, they only need realize that higher power, just like higher complexity requires more cause to exist than the lower levels of power and complexity.. In fact, just as nine apples can't exist without the other 8, higher power can't exist without all the lower powers that support it. Hence, the most important part of anything, including power, is the foundation and that which gives power in the first place. And if the ants were educated enough, they too would realize that even the big powerful being thinking it's god would be delusional at best. Power doesn't make you a GOD..Especially when you rely on that power to be anything at all. And existence itself is the totality of power from the ground foundation to the highest possible level.. It's the entire spectrum that includes me, those ants, and anything else. The point of why the concept of GOD is moot is also to show why there is no real need or necessity to bother with the concept at all. In reality it's just a concept / belief and nothing more.

edit on 31-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-7-2012 @ 06:17 PM by ImaFungi

Originally posted by TheJackelantern
reply to post by ImaFungi

Nope, they only need realize that higher power, just like higher complexity requires more cause to exist than the lower levels of power and complexity.. In fact, just as nine apples can't exist without the other 8, higher power can't exist without all the lower powers that support it. Hence, the most important part of anything, including power, is the foundation and that which gives power in the first place. And if the ants were educated enough, they too would realize that even the big powerful being thinking it's god would be delusional at best. Power doesn't make you a GOD..Especially when you rely on that power to be anything at all. And existence itself is the totality of power from the ground foundation to the highest possible level.. It's the entire spectrum that includes me, those ants, and anything else. The point of why the concept of GOD is moot is also to show why there is no real need or necessity to bother with the concept at all. In reality it's just a concept / belief and nothing more.

edit on 31-7-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

if a king is a king of a country because he possess the most power over the people of that country,,, sets the laws,, originally perhaps it was a man or a clan that organized the country into a country under his/their rule,,,,,,,

a god is a god of a universe because he possesses the most power of that universe,,, sets the laws,,, and dont get caught up with the definitions and actual truth of this god for that we cannot know right now,,,, "God" could be an ancient race of highly advanced "forms",,, its not necessarily a sacred spiritual mystical mad scientist invisible human ultimate dictator,,,, god is just a word used to describe that unknowable item which allowed the quantity of energy of the universe to exist and organize,,,, I attempt to see it from all sides,,,, and i am intuitively urged to partially accept that an intelligence did organize this universe in its matter even if for the most general and specific of reasons or not,,, but out of infinite ways existence can take on,,, it has taken on this one for a relevant reason,,,,,,, I have a hard time comprehending the other side,,, everything by accident orchestrated order and construction,, intelligence can only exist in the bite sized quantity of the human light sponge,,,, why cannot the primal format of your "E" (existence) be consciousness,,,,, if via big bang theory it is proposed all energy was at one point together at one point,, why could it not be this energy was connected in the way that we know our intelligence to be connected,,, why could that pre big bang state not be "gods" mind?

reply posted on 1-8-2012 @ 12:09 AM by TheJackelantern

if a king is a king of a country because he possess the most power over the people of that country,,, sets the laws,, originally perhaps it was a man or a clan that organized the country into a country under his/their rule,,,,,,,

No, it's a hired position to do a job... Let me put this into perspective for you... Giving Existence is the totality and source origin of everything to which governs everything, and is everything...., this meaning we ourselves are of existence..., It's pretty damn hilarious that existence would worship another part of itself as GOD while considering another part of itself as not worthy of being GOD.. It creates itself and then damns itself, threatens itself, wars with itself, and all sorts of other crap.. So me worshiping another entity is exactly saying existence worshiping itself.. So you may as well go straight to Pantheism and worship the entirety of existence to which we are literally a part of.. It's inherently pointless and stupid. It's moot no matter how you slice this cheese, or spread it on cracker. My argument is something you will try to argue against in utter futility.. It's a sound argument that can not be circumvented what-so-ever.

By all means, in regards to this OP, I have definitely won this debate.. Any arguments made would just be proving my argument correct.

edit on 1-8-2012 by TheJackelantern because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-8-2012 @ 01:19 AM by ImaFungi

reply to post by TheJackelantern

I already explained its more about the acknowledgement then the worship,,,,
can you have created both your parents?

I agree and admire a lot of what you say,,, i understand where your coming from,, and i think generally the way you view everything,,,

if you think you deserve to win this thread,,,,, allow me to honor you