Christianity in one word: Anti-homosexual

reply to post by halfoldman


So let me get this straight. You are against Christians offering Free information on the health risks of certain lifestyle choices. (you call this pushing it in peoples faces) (on a side note would you consider what you just posted as Pushing your thoughts in Christians faces?? Should we be outraged at your thoughts? I think not.) But on the flip side you would like to See more Christians posting statistics covering as wide and diverse a range of ethnic, social and racial groups as possible?

So what is it, do you want Christians to just shut up? or do you want Christians to be more thorough in our attempts to provide Free health risk information?

In my opinion according to the anti-Christian sentiments of society. Christians are Damned if they do and damned if they don't. If we speak up... we are "pushing" ourselves on people... if we don't... apparently we don't care.

Well news flash, we do care and we will continue to speak up.

One other thing I find interesting... Why would you think that Christians should be more active in helping educate and inform the population?? I thought we Christians just hated everyone?? Why would you want a misinformed hate filled group of people to take the lead on this issue??

Also, the fact that you don't see threads authored on ATS from Christians regarding homosexual behavior or poor hetero sexual behavior should tell you something about the misguided nature of this thread. Apparently we are not obsessed with being Anti-homosexual or trying to control the lifestyles of others homosexual or otherwise.

When we do speak of it, we are just trying to be helpful to people if they will allow us to be.

Soul

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I'm not saying that churches are singling out black women on some racist basis at all.
They are responding to a real health crisis, that has a number of factors (including the high prison population from the war on drugs).
Forcing the issue of HIV onto the stigmatized "gay minority" has made a STD (and an HIV/AIDS) crisis taboo for too long, and as the documentary in my above clip also says, it was more politically correct to focus on AIDS in Africa as a developmental issue, while it was ignored (or taboo) in the US.

See for example the Baptist churches in LA: www.yourblackworld.com...

I'd commend churches of any race or sexuality for taking a pro-active stance, and that in itself is not racist or homophobic.
It becomes racist or homophobic when instead of addressing the issues one wants to deny people certain rights because they have higher rates of certain problems and diseases.
In the US those who opposed equal civil rights for black people often claimed that their higher crime rates, STDs and addictions justified segregation and unequal treatment.
Today we would would consider that racist.
Yet it's still OK to speak about gay people in those terms, and then claim it's out of "love"!
For example, in SA the Indian community and the Jews have higher rates of diabetes, and diseases caused by marrying withing a limited community. www.health24.com...
The Ashkenazi, Cajuns and French Canadians may be encouraged to take genetic tests for Tay-Sachs disease (en.wikipedia.org...).
That's just a medical fact.
But some might use it for antisemitism and advancing segregation.
Then it becomes wrong.

reply to post by halfoldman


And I have explained how that happened through the distribution of tainted Hep B vax to the gay community. This actually shows that gays and blacks were victimized by the process of this distribution.
But then what exactly was your complaint about Christianity in this case? Oh wait, you were trying to prove that so-called Christian hetero women were at risk because their men were fooling around with gays, and I think I just proved that to be a falsehood and a nutty theory. Unprotected sex in any avenue can be a transmitter as well as a number of other ways, including blood transfusion of tainted blood although testing is usually more thorough these days.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

No, no, I said clearly that HIV/AIDS in South Africa is largely a heterosexual disease, and also for African Americans.
I also said that officialdom has helped to advance it.

I have no beef with Christianity as such.
I think I've also said so from p. 4 in the thread (although moderate opinions don't count much here).
I'm just bewildered by some posters on the last two pages or so and how they use and recycle certain statistics and claims to make gay people all look inherently bad.
One could do that with any group.
That's one political stream that adopts Christianity as a cover.
Perhaps if you do not know their literature or websites then you might not understand.

However these diseases got here, I don't think it's useful to abuse them and make the only solution: become a "real (straight) Christian" like me and it will all go away.

reply to post by halfoldman


So now you are claiming you did not suggest that churches are singling out black women? Then what was this statement of yours?

I see some churches in the US now openly encourage black women to be tested for STDs.

AIDS did appear to be more of a "gay disease" until it began to spread more through the hetero community. It can be spread through blood transfusion or dirty needles as well as unprotected sex. But my post specifically addressed how it got to be in the gay and black communities first.

I have also pointed to Rockefeller and their de-population agenda, which is spreading through the UN propaganda. I hope you will take some time to study Dr. Horowitz's material. While the AIDS virus mayhave initially been used in the gay and black communities, the entire de-population agenda is to kill off millions of people of every race, gender, or other type of affiliation.

reply to post by SoulReaper

I like your point that perhaps Christians should be more pro-active on all risky behaviors.

Of course we have a very generalized debate here where both well meaning Christians and some serious homophobes make an appearance, and it's difficult to tell the difference.
I think framing things differently could highlight a difference between true caring and bullying people into heterosexual lifestyles, when that could clearly create more social problems.

Originally posted by halfoldman

It's good to recognize a gay minority and their sexual orientation, and spread a message that encourages responsible sex and monogamous relationships, like gay marriage.
However, if one just quotes statistics to demonize a community, then that's not love but opportunism.
If one addresses gay people as in need of healing simply for being gay, instead of encouraging responsible behavior and forms of being gay, then one is encouraging stigma and driving homosexuality underground (the "down-low"), where it cannot be reached by campaigns for responsible sex.
So, instead of focusing on a gay identity or orientation, one should rather focus on certain risky acts and behaviors.

Why would Christians preach "safe sex" when the issue is the sexual immorality and it's tragic consequences - the hardening of the heart towards God? Don't take that the wrong way, of course diseases can and should be prevented where possible. But it's not the issue here. We will always preach the healing that Christ Jesus offers, for it is the power of God to heal sinners from their former lifestyles and blindness. Christ heals the blind so that they can spiritually see, He heals the deaf so that they can spiritually hear. The darkness turns into the light of truth. I think that it was the OP who made a comment about what will Christians do when they see that "anti-homophobe bus" media propaganda coming towards itself. There are no changes to be made for its God's will. He is sovereign and in charge. We will continue to preach the Light of the Kingdom, Jesus, who still offers the power to give that new sight and the power for us to be healed and forgiven of our past sinful lives. We can continue to point out the agenda, the prevalence of pedophilia within the community, and fight against and highlight the mass forced indoctrination of our children into the gay and sexual immoral lifestyle.  Faithful Christians cannot fix or change the "bus" by accepting the relabelling of  evil as "good" and good as "evil", which is exactly one of the main goals of the gay movement. Unfaithful Christians in harlot churches, however, have been swapping and rolling out buses at an alarming rate as they fall into apostasy. Their first love is the world, for when God's testing falls on them by making the going a little rough, instead of accepting the correction to strengthen their faith, they choose to swim downstream instead of facing the persecution.

The Holy Spirit is convicting this Godless generation, and those seething posters feel it in the core of their being. This is the seething hatred shown against the whole concept of God, let alone those who reject the lifestyle. It's not our role as Christian's to convert anyone, it's our job to share the good news of the gospel and declare the power of God to release the prisoners from lives of sin which separated them from God. He is the one who converts. People caught up in the gay lifestyle are sinners as much as those who are caught up in other sins, but it is a sexual lust that is one God deems that He will allow them to be destroyed in.  And for a Christian, watching millions of adults oblivious to the ever increasing sexualisation of the children and the rising pedophilia movement within the homosexual movement is like watching a train wreck. 

Sexual lust becomes all consuming, whether gay or straight. Anyone who's been trapped in it will tell you about it. Many don't care whether it's a man, woman, their hand, a faceless and nameless person, a child, an animal or a hole in the wall - they'll take it. This is the very thing that ex-gays have testified about, the all consuming lust. And it is the very lust being glorified more and more in these last generations that lead to the days of Noah and Lot. I reject it and until I'm silenced, will do my very utmost to spread the gospel of salvation.

Gays are a tiny fraction of the community, yet are nothing but pawns to their rich benefactors. They serve a very sad means to an end - attempting to silence Christ on Earth. Praise God, the Kingdom isn't going anywhere despite very trying times ahead.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I'm saying that it's good to be pro-active, and the African American churches in LA have set some good examples in that, without attaching judgmental messages to certain diseases.

That's what I would like to see in the gay/Christian debate from both sides.
But when a certain discourse in Christianity views just being gay as wrong they are not using gay statistics to help the gay community, they want to use it to cajole gay people into ex-gay therapies and reduce their civil rights.
They see gay problems as a justification to obliterate gay identity, and deny equal rights.

So I'm comparing useful Christian reactions (the LA churches) to useless Christian reactions (homophobic misuse of statistics with no solution but to hammer gays) on the basis of STDs.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

Well that's all your opinion and faith, and you frame it that way, so that's fine.
I don't agree however, and there are many Christian gay people.

Despite all the pedophilia, misogyny and abuse in Christianity and other religions, I think many gay people are still drawn to the spirituality and positive sides of love for Godhead and humanity, and meditation.
Spirituality should indeed always be encouraged by followers of God.

However, for medical things another scientific discourse is required.
Trying to pray away social problems and realities is not going to work.

reply to post by halfoldman


So, people should be pro-active, except where Christian children or children in general are concerned? Why is it that the seculars are insisting that gay propaganda be spread through the public school system masquerading as anti-bullying, and Christians are not supposed to be insulted that their voice to their own children is being supplanted by the views of the State?

Also, the gay community is spreading propaganda that the Catholic Church itself is what is corrupt in the pedophilia scheme instead of addressing the disease itself as being part of the gay agenda. Trying to make it be a Catholic problem is just evil and dishonest and they know they are doing it.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


All communities should be pro-active against STDs.

I can't say much here, because we don't have specific gay bullying as a problem in SA.
In SA the main problem is with the "corrective rape" of lesbian women.

I've seen some threads before about so-called gay propaganda in US schools, but all I've seen as evidence of this was a kind of cartoon film.

I've always maintained that it's not fruitful to teach children about such issues (except that all bullying is wrong) and even as a gay man I don't like stereotypes being pushed onto children.
There are many ways to be gay, and I found mine in an environment where homosexuality was illegal and largely invisible.
Perhaps I'd include a chapter nowadays on gay rights in the US as part of the history curriculum in the final year or two.

I wouldn't want children to learn that it's OK to bully anyone (which sets them up for legal troubles) but being gay is too diverse to teach via stereotypes.
So if that happens; I'd oppose it.
But that's just my opinion.
But kids are marketed as "sexual" from a much younger age these days, and I don't like the hyper-sexualization of society whether gay or straight, and the teen pregnancy rate is also a cause for concern.

reply to post by halfoldman


I am so sorry to hear about the issue of "corrective rape" in SA. That is evil and should not be happening. It is sad to see these activities in any community.

reply to post by halfoldman


This is where you are dead wrong.

The lifestyle Choices which are MORE common to the Gay population in comparison to the general populous directly result in their astronomically higher incidence of serious health problems. Not limited to, but including Aids and other STD's.

And Christians do have solutions to help them lower their health risks. It is a CHANGE of behavior, a Change of lifestyle to a healthier one that is better for them. These same Changes apply to the Heterosexual engaging in the same risky behavior. Christians would give the same message to the Homosexual as to the heterosexual.

The actual identification of whether or not one is Gay is not the main concern of Christians or God for that matter. The lifestyle choices that are more prevalent in people who identify themselves as Gay do concern us not only for the risks to their physical health but also for the risk to their eternal Soul.

What they decide to do with the information we present to them is between them and God. Why are you so opposed to the information?? People can accept or reject it as they please.

Do you think it is more loving to allow people to put themselves at greater risk just in the name of not rocking the boat??

I certainly see it differently. Sometimes Tough Love is necessary in the hope of saving people from placing themselves in harms way.

Soul

reply to post by SoulReaper

So what is your "lifestyle" remedy for gay people?
What kind of "tough love" should be applied?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Yes, it's an incredible evil.
And yet, some men see it as right, because they think they will help the lesbian woman to become "normal".

reply to post by halfoldman

Of course, many politicians now belong to US-styled fundamentalist mega-churches in SA.
Even our polygamist African traditionalist president seeks their blessings.

Last year the Chief Justice Mogaeng was appointed, although his patriarchal Christian rulings in the past caused shock and concern.

Not only was he a pastor that believed homosexuality could be cured, but he presided over cases of violent marital rape, where the male offenders were given lenient sentences.

Apparently some pastors believe that marital rape cannot even exist according to the Bible.
mg.co.za...

reply to post by halfoldman


two fold,

One for the physical health and one for the spiritual health. They are not the same, though a change in one aspect can often improve the other.

I would hope that they would consider and understand the dangers and health risks that come with both Gay Male Sex(if they are men) and Promiscuity in general(for statistics show that there is higher incidence of this in the gay community, obviously there are still exceptions). Any health professional worth his/her salt would be helpful in this regard to explain the increased risks of some rather Serious health problems.

And secondly as a Christian who is concerned for their eternal soul I would hope that they would be interested in considering what their Creator has in store for those who Love Christ and seek to do his will. A change in this arena can often produce a Stronger desire for a Beneficial Change in Lifestyle then just a fear of disease.

I personally think a message of Hope, Love, and Forgiveness for them not only in this Life, but also in the afterlife can be more inspiring then a message of Caution over the possible contraction of a horrible disease.

Positive out weighs negative more often then not.

And again this message would be the Same for a Hetero-sexual who is engaged in similar risky behaviors that can negatively impact their health both Physically and Spiritually.

Obviously my message is based in a Christian World view. i dont' apologize for that and people, gay or not, can choose to Reject it or accept it as they see fit.

However I reject the notion that Gay people cannot control their behavior. Or that just because they identify themselves as such that they by necessity must be engaging in Immoral activity. They are people just like anyone else.

Non the less a case can be made both from a purely scientific and biological perspective and from a moral perspective that Lifestyle choices that are more prevalent in the gay community are destructive to many individuals in more ways then one. And again, it isn't the fact that they are gay... it is the behavior that puts them at risk.

Some people reject the Moral argument, I can understand this even if I don't agree with it. However it is quite difficult to look at the scientific medical evidence and dismiss it out of hand. For whatever reason the Gay community Suffers disproportionately to the rest of the population on a grand scale. And in my opinion it is a noble effort to try to Identify WHY and to attempt to help improve their situation... disregardless of whether or not they ever come around to seeing that behavior as "Immoral" or not.

Soul

reply to post by SoulReaper

Well I'd concur with most of that.
Indeed, gay people are responsible for their behavior, and nowadays they have many resources to find out more.
Of course people do make mistakes (and just one can have serious consequences), so I'd never be judgmental, but as far as possible people should take responsibility.

Well said from a Christian perspective.

I'd also encourage all people to do the same and just being heterosexual or Christian will also not protect a person in itself.
Just recently I saw a TBN sermon on STDs (to a mixed crowd of youngsters) and the lady mentioned some shocking statistics on STDs.
I thought, here we go again, we're going to hear all about the gays.
But no.
She said that's just what's happening inside the church!
So everybody must take responsibility.
And it's a life-long responsibility.
People can go through tough times where they just don't care about themselves and others.
So the message must be for life, and not a smug thing for the moment.

Of course that's a much harder message to actually apply in a marriage, where insisting on safe-sex implies certain fears and behaviors, and according to some Catholics it's good for the wife to not insist on condoms and get AIDS and die. Her reward will be in heaven.

Generally however that's a good framework that doesn't immediately alienate people.

WILL A TRIP TO the DEEP
Transform the Christian basher SaturnFX???
Perhaps!

Jonah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah - Similarto Jonah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Depiction of Jonah and the "great fish" on the south doorway of ... A big fish or whale (of unspecified species) did indeed swallow Jonah.

Book of Jonah - Jonah in rabbinic literature - Category:Jonah

Originally posted by SlowlyLonely
reply to post by mythos

so for you to tell me not to confuse the Old & the New is simply one more faction of Christianity cherry picking what scripture they will to back up whatever point they are trying to make.

Nice try, but no.

It is a biblical fact that the Mosaic Law, as it was given to the Jews in the Old Testament, does not apply to Christians. Romans 10:4 gives the scriptural explanation of why this is so. If you want a scholarly explanation, read a book about the Apostolic Conference.

Asking Christians why they don't practice Mosaic Law is like asking Americans why they don't practice British Law. It makes you look ignorant.

edit on 18-5-2012 by SlowlyLonely because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2012 by SlowlyLonely because: formatting

edit on 18-5-2012 by SlowlyLonely because: (no reason given)

don't tell me, tell the plethora of denominations that insist that Mosaic Law (or the Old Covenant) is still a part of God's word.

too many factions of Christianity have too many different ideas of what "God's word", all based upon their particular interpretations of hte Bible. if you don't believe me, google to find out how many branches of Christianity there are. with each one thinking they've Found the Truth, even if their truths are contradictory.

so for you to say that you happened to be the lucky (or most wise one) who discovered the TRUE teachings of Christ rings as equally as ignorant.


of course, celebrate your version- celebrate your connection to your faith... but to claim that your interpretation is the proper one (and then site some scripture to back it up) is something i have heard far too many times from far too many Christians who claim the are in the privy.


as for me, i am no Christian... the whole things is just too messy. the eternal Spirit & Mystery of Life cannot be confined to the pages of a book... especially one written my men.

i prefer the Gospel according to Trees. or the Gospel according to the Milky Way.

cheers -


PS - Christ does seem a pretty wise being, but of course... i mean, Love is a powerful thing.

PS