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Free Will Is an Illusion, So What?

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posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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I just came across this and thought I would share it with ATS as I know most of you would find this as interesting as I did.


Think of someone that you dislike. Let’s call this person X. Now, imagine that you were born with X’s “genetic material.” That is, imagine that you had X’s looks, body odor, inherent tastes, intelligence, aptitudes, etc. Imagine, further, that you had X’s upbringing and life-experiences as well; so, imagine that you had X’s parents growing up, and that you grew up in the same country, city, and neighborhood in which X grew up, etc.

Would behave any differently from how X behaves?

Most people realize, perhaps after a moment of startled pause, that the answer to the question is “No.”

The question helps people realize that their thoughts and actions are determined entirely by their genetic and social conditioning. In other words, it helps people intuitively grasp the idea that free will is an illusion.


I honestly don't know what to take from all this. Consider the fact that I could easily choose to kill a random person anytime I want means to me that it's a choice. I don't know, but what do you guys think? I'll post the link to the article below.

Source

*MODs please move if I choose the wrong place to post this topic. Thanks.

Regards,


edit on 13-5-2012 by TheProphetMark because: Message to MODs




posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


"Consider the fact that I could easily choose to kill a random person anytime I want means to me that it's a choice."

Could you easily choose to kill a random person though? It is not a fact that you could.
'Could' is not a fact.
edit on 13-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


If I could do it easily, by definition I would be considered a psychopath.

Easy? No, but could I do it? Yes. Not that I actually "want" to do it but I'm simply trying to say that I "could" if I wanted to make that choice.

Although, I do have to admit they do make pretty valid arguments regarding how free will is an illusion. Definitly a lot more then what someone has to say trying to argue against it.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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According to quantum physics,,,,,all moments in time exist already.

A question for you,

If you were not meant to be exactly where you are right now,,,wouldnt you be somewhere else?

Like someone once told me,,,,,"You do have free will,,,,,in your yard" check this out


edit on 13-5-2012 by consigliere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Who is driving the dream bus???
youtu.be...



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by TheProphetMark


Think of someone that you dislike. Let’s call this person X. Now, imagine that you were born with X’s “genetic material.” That is, imagine that you had X’s looks, body odor, inherent tastes, intelligence, aptitudes, etc. Imagine, further, that you had X’s upbringing and life-experiences as well; so, imagine that you had X’s parents growing up, and that you grew up in the same country, city, and neighborhood in which X grew up, etc.

Would behave any differently from how X behaves?

Most people realize, perhaps after a moment of startled pause, that the answer to the question is “No.”

The question helps people realize that their thoughts and actions are determined entirely by their genetic and social conditioning. In other words, it helps people intuitively grasp the idea that free will is an illusion.


Interesting find OP S&F. However let me pose a common situation. What about a family set up with more than one kid. Lets say the parents could be described as strict and over bearing. When the kids grow up one is going out breaking all the rules and tasting freedom but at a price, the other is to afraid to leave the nest to the point of not being self reliant at all. In this hypothetical I'm talking about the same DNA pool and environment is present in both kids. This is actually a common situation. What makes kid A pick one extreme while kid B is the exact opposite?

edit on 13-5-2012 by PutAQuarterIn because: can't get OP quotes and personal post off eachother



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


so actually u r saying that, persons that u hate are living ways different to urs, so where u feel becoming less bc that other is sharing the ground with u

then u dont hate really the person but u r hating what could b taken from u, that is why u think that u can kill others for no reason bc u r in fact not existing really, just taking advantage of what existence offer as long as u r in pretending conditions that u exist for a while

well it is a very complex logics but what is sure is that all of u or that article is not true, u admit it even the article state the lack of free will in pointing non existence truly

where there is smthg as shapes then there is for sure a truth even hypothetically it would b

so ur article and u are nothing to any it is just rambles of relative free perspectives that obviously cant mean but themselves wills

existence is never about what u want, it is about what u would b shown as

free will in the sense of what freedom will b real, which is exceptional premise but true bc truth exist

try to figure that mean, how exceptional is it that freedom could become real??

u cant figure it that is why ur understanding of free will is false, so u jump to believe that free will is what u could possess what u could add to u

freedom in all definition cant b real logically, it is an exception bc truth is freedom so freedom is present really
so any free sense become first more till real

freedom in absolute term is nothing to all and else, so never objective never real with anything

but bc truth is freedom so objective is also free that is why there is reality always of different freedoms



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by PutAQuarterIn
 


I could be wrong and it could be for many reasons. But the only thing I can think of, is if the parent has more than one child and doesn't give them both the same equal attention, than whoever gets the least attention is more likely to be the rebellious kind.

As for the poster above, I like what you said. "You have free will, in your own backyard" and that all movement within time already exist. It's sort of a parallel universe theory but from what I picture from what you're trying to explain; is I'm think of time with movements as bug bubbles, one after the other and inside each bubble is your free will in your own backyard.

Although, you got to keep in mind people move a lot. I moved all the time while I was growing up, was never able to stay in the same School for more than a year. I don't know, can't explain this the way I want to because my head seriously hurts right now and I'm still a little tired after waking up a few hours ago. I never usually get up this early.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by consigliere
 


If all moments in time exist now doesn't that mean that you are somewhere else too?



But agreed you can only be this right here right now according to your understanding. If your understanding be different now then you have already changed however you will always be here, now.


much love



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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Check out the vid I just put in my post Mark,,,I think you will find it quite interesting



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by IAmD1
reply to post by consigliere
 


If all moments in time exist now doesn't that mean that you are somewhere else too?



But agreed you can only be this right here right now according to your understanding. If your understanding be different now then you have already changed however you will always be here, now.


much love


Correct,,,,we believe time to be linear,,,when according to QP it is not

So yes, I exist in a predetermined future,,,,,it is my mind hat has me think its going "forward" in "3d"



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by consigliere
 


I would, but deaf and hard of hearing. I don't watch anything without subtiles, even if I REALLY wanted to watch it. I always said, the best videos on youtube never has any english subtitles to go along with it. You have no idea how bad I would actually love to watch the videos people post on ATS.

My free will sucks. That's all I have to say.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by consigliere
 


I like your thinking. But, you have to realize QP is more of a theory. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it so. Just like when people used believe the earth was flat.

If the future is predetermined, then what does that say about the present? By this, I mean what if I were to commit suicide right now, or you, or anyone else on this planet wouldn't that change the predetermined future? The future cannot be changed if it's already predetermined. Therefore, in my opinion the future doesn't exist because it hasn't been created yet.

I DO believe in parallel universes though. Maybe some are futher into the future than our current universe. Some older, same same, some that are just being born. Who really knows.



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


Not sure how to go about it Mark,,,maybe someone could chime in,,,but when I was trying to watch a martial arts film with no subtitles i stumbled along programs that might help

try googling,,,,,"how to add subtitles" good luck bud,,,,,and im sorry to hear that



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


oohh i got ur subtle message now

truth is freedom and truth is the exclusive objective value reason

so if ur free will sucks or all and anyone free will is evil, then u r liars u cant b free really

i guess u r trying to escape hells, but in denying freedom value u should expect more hells

my words are abstract for u, u know that i mean fun



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by TheProphetMark
reply to post by consigliere
 

If the future is predetermined, then what does that say about the present? By this, I mean what if I were to commit suicide right now, or you, or anyone else on this planet wouldn't that change the predetermined future?


Thats my point PM every choice leads to a consequence,,,,so there were so many choices made that resulted in you just "being here" most of which were out of your control,,,

I like parallel universes too,,,, dont forget to look for those programs,,,,,gonna friend you too


PEACE



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by consigliere
 


I know all about subtiles and how to add them. You can't add them onto youtube videos. I have to download torrents and find the proper subtitle online that goes with that torrent file.

If you can find a torrent for the video you posted. I'll download it, and that's if I can find a subtitle for it first.

And you don't have anything to be sorry about. Life is life, I got sick with menigitis, crap happens and I just deal with it. Personally, I honestly don't want pity from anyone. And this is why I don't have many friends in my life because I can usually see and feel how they think of me by looking in their eyes and feeling the energy levels that surrounds them. Sixth sense if you're wondering. Completely deaf in my right and 80% in the other. Whatever sense I lost, got spread out among my other 5 senses.

Now let's stay on topic shall we



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by TheProphetMark
 


Ok bro,,,,,,no disrespect intended,,,,i wasnt aware about the YT vids

On Topic,,,,,,

I agree that nature/nurture is the basis for "who we are"

Gotta run,,,,,
edit on 13-5-2012 by consigliere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by TheProphetMark
My free will sucks. That's all I have to say.


There is no free will, only the will of that which created us.

Can you hear these words? Are they clear?

ARE THEY LOUD!!!!



posted on May, 13 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by TheProphetMark
My free will sucks. That's all I have to say.


There is no free will, only the will of that which created us.

Can you hear these words? Are they clear?

ARE THEY LOUD!!!!



That wasnt even necessary,,,,unless the Creator needs you to be an A$$



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