Gold and Blood - Vengeance and Revenge for Atrocities and Abuses to our people by Invaders.

Greetings all,

Painfully must admit, have not viewed and read all through the 2 Native American threads and just glanced at one this AM and my heart moved me here to start another one, as my feelings and thoughts of comments, feel the need to do not hijack anyone's thread with my sentiments and comments.


So here it is here in brief and will comment back to responses later on, and watch some of the videos and read comments and contents of the other 2 threads posted in the last few days, as painful as it may be...

I am 25% Cherokee, my grandmother was married to my grandfather, from the rez. and he or his father could have been an invader murderer as well, just as much as the person that I am fixing to mention and discuss.

Recently was told that a guest is arriving who's Great Grandfather is and was responsible for actions taken against our people, on and at the Trail of Tears....

I am going to be around this person and thinking may be having a conversation about it, as I was informed it was more about taken the gold than it was the land and that was the motivation factor, as their was lots of land, and when they found gold, the Indians had to go...

Concerned he and I may get into it, and/or I may act on the behalf of our people, is why I write this, as I have not attacked anyone in my life, that was attacking someone else, in aid of helping and assisting or defending...

Did not go into the service, as killing defense less people is wrong and so is stealing, and not anything I want to be remembered as, and while I despise violence, there has always been a thought, that one day, my purpose would require it and it would be justified.

Stealing back what was stolen, is two rights make it wrong or right?

Who cares, as I think take back 10 times more that what was taken and call it even on this end.

Now, if I hear this guy brag or disrespect in anyway, that I feel is not right, then I am thinking that this is the person, to take it out on, for all those who got abused and mistreated, murdered, enslaved and starved and any other and all other things, that deserve retribution...

Not asking anyone to condone violence, or my reaction predictions, however if anyone here, thinks that my feelings and actions are justified and understandable, or other comments, as you know where I am going with this and no need for us to be perfectly clear, as metaphors and puns, in between the lines is fine!

What are your thoughts and what would you do, if in my position and situation arose?

reply to post by earthinhabitant


Do you seriously believe that you have a right to harbor hate and misgivings towards a man because of what his great grandfather did?

Tell me it isn't so!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by earthinhabitant

 

Do you seriously believe that you have a right to harbor hate and misgivings towards a man because of what his great grandfather did?

Tell me it isn't so!

no I don't at all, unless the grandchild boasts and brags and is still profiting from proceeds...

(was not finished with thread, and accidentally hit post button, so it is more complete now)\

"our people" in the title should have been in Caps, my mistake, so if I do go back and edit it again, will correct that for sure!2

It is like this, I don't condone slavery and abuses.
Told black people had it better than the Indians as slaves and were not treated as bad, still say's they were mistreated and if someone started talking bad about black people, even though, I am not that dark complected, I still have issues, as I don't disrespect people cause of their race, however I do, do on their actions and words and if I was related to a slave who had been murdered or raped, that was black, or any race or color, and then ran across his grandson of the assailant, who talks about raping and killing and disrespecting black people in general, as in they would do the same thing today, if they could and get away with it and enjoy it.

Then thinking they need to learn a good hard lesson and that maybe, that is what I could assist in and to do anything less, would be cowardly...as it would be justified imo

You've worked yourself up over something that hasn't happened. Take a deep breath and set some priorities that are worth directing energy into.

reply to post by earthinhabitant


Maybe I didn't get the proper message here, but....


I'm Native American myself, and not that that truly matters but, I believe that anyone living today cannot be held accountable for crimes committed by their ancestors.

Even most of the ancestors who committed these crimes were brainwashed to believe we were a bunch of savages and it was justifiable killing us off.

Why input more hate and negativity into a world that is filling to the brim with the stuff?

It should never be anything about RACE, we are all HUMAN, apart of the HUMAN RACE. When are people going to understand we all want a life of general happiness, to be left alone to our families, to love, to have sex, to watch our sports games, to listen to our favorite music, to drink and smoke and have FUN!

Kinda ranted there, but you get my point. I just wish we'd let these old fires die. It's the same with the African american and the Jewish people. Bad things have happened to us all, but I don't look at a German and believe they're a nazi who should be tried for crimes during that time, and I don't look at every southern farmer and imagine him cracking a whip over anyone's back.

The only thing I wish is that we could all peacefully live on the land that was infact stolen in the memories of all of our fallen ancestors together. Wouldn't that be interesting? Having our ancestors smile down upon us, as we live in peace amongst one another like we should have been able to so long ago?

But.... I know, that's against logic and human nature. A girl can dream though, y'know

Originally posted by Protostellar
You've worked yourself up over something that hasn't happened. Take a deep breath and set some priorities that are worth directing energy into.

edit on 8-5-2012 by Protostellar because: (no reason given)

Trust me on this, not even close to be worked up yet, as will get if hear a peep from his lips that are disrespectful in the slightest to those who were on the Trail of Tears...as he is a good ole southern man who may still believe it was ok then and now, and if that is the case, just like the rants on Muslims and others that I do not condone, this be one of those, that have more attachment too, as I am not against Muslim or any race or gender, as stereotyping, is not right at all and to be honest, Mohammed sounds better then Jesus, if I was going to take a pick, especially after have seen what Jesus believers have done.

I admit, that I am a little worked up over it and it is weighing on my heart, as do many things I care about and what I do not like, is acting out in rage and if I did or do act on anything, like it to be thought through, however we know sometimes we just can't predict the circumstances and situations and outcome or income or anything, as it just happens naturally, so is this, as I am not going to be provoking anyone, however I may go fishing!

Originally posted by GreenEyedVixen
reply to post by earthinhabitant

 

Maybe I didn't get the proper message here, but....


I'm Native American myself, and not that that truly matters but, I believe that anyone living today cannot be held accountable for crimes committed by their ancestors.

Even most of the ancestors who committed these crimes were brainwashed to believe we were a bunch of savages and it was justifiable killing us off.

Why input more hate and negativity into a world that is filling to the brim with the stuff?

It should never be anything about RACE, we are all HUMAN, apart of the HUMAN RACE. When are people going to understand we all want a life of general happiness, to be left alone to our families, to love, to have sex, to watch our sports games, to listen to our favorite music, to drink and smoke and have FUN!

Kinda ranted there, but you get my point. I just wish we'd let these old fires die. It's the same with the African american and the Jewish people. Bad things have happened to us all, but I don't look at a German and believe they're a nazi who should be tried for crimes during that time, and I don't look at every southern farmer and imagine him cracking a whip over anyone's back.

The only thing I wish is that we could all peacefully live on the land that was infact stolen in the memories of all of our fallen ancestors together. Wouldn't that be interesting? Having our ancestors smile down upon us, as we live in peace amongst one another like we should have been able to so long ago?

But.... I know, that's against logic and human nature. A girl can dream though, y'know

I agree it is not about race or religion and that it not just evil and righteousness....

Sins of the father are not sins of the entire family or anyone other than the one Father, unless the children carry on the traditions, that make utopian visions, cloudy....when there are those who think that stealing and robbing 3rd world countries, is just a way of life and death and destruction is justified, for any reason they can come up with and make up as they please, as gold means more than blood to them, or they could send all the protesters to the trail of tears again, if they could for the ancestors, is my point, something hope we are not going to allow to exist....

As protesting now, gets a train ticket to internment camp, so now it is obviously not about race or creed, it is about thought and if you are not going to be part of the gold stealing and killing in the name of god or what, then you are the enemy and freedom and liberty just a hoax...play the game or die, be with us or you are against us, quotes are a joke, and make my point much more clearer hopefully to show who and what is running the shows, and where, and what., as the Indians, were then, now it anyone and everyone who disagrees.

Well, you've just proven premeditation to a court. Now, just hope they don't dig too deep into your background during prosecution.
You have no reason to hold a grudge against someone for what their ancestors did.
Way, way too much of that going on already.

Originally posted by DAVID64
Well, you've just proven premeditation to a court. Now, just hope they don't dig too deep into your background during prosecution.
You have no reason to hold a grudge against someone for what their ancestors did.
Way, way too much of that going on already.

I have some grudges towards certain people for what they have done, granted, none on anything ones parents or ancestors done, and the person in regards, at this moment, my reason for starting this thread, is have been told a few things about him and what happen and how he is and how he may have condoned the "trail of tears" and he still treats Native American's and others, as 3rd class people and has money from his ancestors land grab and gold prospecting, that made him an accessory to some extent, would argue, however not enough to justify taking actions, or is it?

Should he say something like" there ain't no such thing as good indian, only a dead indian" or anything that resembles this remark, ...we guess we can say," that, them, there, is feuding words."

reply to post by earthinhabitant


Being part Cherokee, I'm assuming you have knowledge of the Khumry people and their connection to the Cherokee........

reply to post by bluemirage5

Thanks googled it and reviewing, as no is my answer for previous being aware of the relation, as was not sure what the relativity was and is, as find it interested reading and will continue.

Thank you and the rest of the responses, as I am not really upset, I just no what will and does trigger me to be...
I have not ever thrown the first punch and do not ever intend to do so, so it would take an attack on me personally and physically, before I would react and respond with the appropriate action(s).


www.google.com...

Remember. Lead by example. Forgiveness is part of history. What happened in the past may not have been right. Heck! It may not have even been legal by present standards, but what happened, happened. It's time to mend old wounds. It's time to remember Wounded Knee and similar events but also remember all the good that has happened since then. Building a better tomorrow starts by healing old grudges.

That may sound kind like mushy preacher propaganda - and I'm not going to yell "testify!" anytime soon, but deep down, I know you know it's time to move on.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


In order for one to seek forgiveness, he must first pay retribution! It's in the old ancient sages.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by MysteriousHusky

 

In order for one to seek forgiveness, he must first pay retribution! It's in the old ancient sages.

Two wrongs do not make a right. There was a show on American Fox TV streaming into Canada along the name of An Eye for an Eye or something like that. It was a courtroom show with unusual punishments. So instead of Judge Judy handing down a fine, you have this guy sentencing this girl's boyfriend to go stand in a dumpster and have trash poured over him. Here's the link: www.eyeforaneyetv.com...

Ultimately, what goes around comes around. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. With that said, the call is yours.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


Obviously, you have no understanding of what I meant; retribution is kind of a payment not neccssarily an eye for an eye. The term "eye for an eye" comes with rules, it's alot more complicated than you assume.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I don't see how one can morally seek retribution for something that happened three generations ago.

How would you seek retribution? Slit the throat of an infant because his great grandfather killed your grandfather maybe?

reply to post by Chadwickus


Here's a good example you might understand: Retribution is usually negotiated between the 2 parties; if promises are made then broken, the "treaty" or "agreement" becomes nil and void however usually when retribution is offered by the perperator, he must pay up front or work it off if agreed to by the "victim".

Forgiveness does not come free except that in the twisted mind of a man who speaks with two tongues!

Only Christian men are stupid enough to think forgiveness is a freebee.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


I have not a problem with forgiving someone who asks for forgiveness, if they are sincere, the person who may be encountering, did not participate directly in the operation, obviously...so have not grudge about those acts, unless he makes any drunken or sober remarks, that suggest if he had been there he would have enjoyed it and done the same things, his grandfather did....or if he could do them all over again, would not change and thing and that he like you hear the soldiers now talk, like their actions are justified and heroic or some other ludicrous comments, that suggest that are not regretful and/or remorseful, at all, and desire more destruction and less peace, even if it mean eliminated, relocating and destroy anything and everything in their paths, type mentality, that I personally feel the world would be better off, without them in our gene pool and those that actually deserve to be alive or the ones defending their land and families, not those attacking others and getting paid to do so, as we see time and time again, as honor before death or however you want to put it, should not be some bigotry based agenda, or need to be paid to do it, as I say all you soldiers who believe what you are doing is right, forfeit your paycheck, to show us, how you are not doing it for the $$$ and perks, and see how many sign up with no pay, as not saying their motives are right either, could just be killers who want to have protection and authorization to kill and destroy, as that is what you like to do.


I don't blame German's for Hitler's action on the Jews that is written in history, as it sounds like he was a patsy and was being directed by the real ones, who I do blame and those who make puppets out of slaves and men do their dirty deeds.

Not saying the Indians were all good or bad either at the time, as rogues can be found everywhere...and if some of them did something that brought on their demise, like attacking settlers without justifications or provocation, would not hold it against every Indian dead or alive.

Just saying there are some people who, still think slavery and killing jews, and indians and people in general is fun stuff and they get paid to do it and enjoy it, or they would not be doing it, unless they just want the check and pension, as it is sad to see a world full of mercenaries, who do whatever they are told or sold still to this day, and support the same agendas, that resemble the days of old, when barbarians and tyrants abound and roamed, as they are still in power, the same organization who acted out and participated, as they should be held accountable, as the UN stated, in thread on ATS, as letting corporations and countries, get away with murder and theft, is really not right in my opinion, nor is letting those off the hook, who carried out the deeds for the corps. under any flag or nation.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

I don't see how one can morally seek retribution for something that happened three generations ago.

How would you seek retribution? Slit the throat of an infant because his great grandfather killed your grandfather maybe?

If the infant grew up and was of age, to know and learn from accurate history and teachings, as I blame education on lot of the problems of today, as concealing and whitewashing the truth, and covering up what really happened...goes...

So let's say the child grows up and wants to be just like his grandpa and go out and kill and rape and destroy....
Re-education camp sounds like is in order...

Now if the child grows up and fights against tyranny and injustices with out prejudices, think we have a winner folks and someone of character, who I would like to see more on the planet with these attributes.

As far as how far the re-education can be feasible for those that have been raised to trust goverment even when they lie to you and just kill and get your check, and have no consciousness, well, may not be a lot of hope, however sure can salvage anyone, as long as they are willing and open to it...and if not, well...not going to slice anyone throat over it and killing is not the answer, nor is violence!