A question to Ron Paul Supporters:

reply to post by Starchild23


The smart people among us know that without change RIGHT NOW there will be drastic upheaval, there isnt long left.Paul is that last chance we have before this entire nation goes down the toilet. Time has run out.... and the establishment knows that time has run out, hense the fema camps, NDAA, and all the rest of it.......

This is Armageddon. Armageddon is not a physical battle its an intellectual battle and its being fought right here right now on ATS and everywhere else......

reply to post by auraelium


Well, here's a question for you: are the deaths of thousands worth the salvation of the nation?

Are you willing to sacrifice hundreds of innocent men, women, and children across the country to achieve your ideal of peace? Because that's what happens when an entire country changes within four years. Throw a skyscraper together in less than 3 months and there's going to be a lot of mistakes.

And in government, mistakes cost lives. Is that what you're looking for?

reply to post by Starchild23


its not my willingness to sacrifice others that will be coming... its others willingness to sacrifice themselves if this country doesn't take the steps Dr. Paul is endorsing.

Occupy is just the begining of the violence in this country if we don't make these changes now

Ron Paul has the power of the people and that is stronger than any corporation. Believe me these corporations don't stand a chance when there are millions of pissed of American's at their door. Americans who are tired of being taken advantage of and whose rights are slipping away to the corporations. When CEO's and board members are dragged out in the streets for their crimes what power will they have then? These people are not super human, they take a beat down just like you and me. Maybe all it takes is one powerful corporation CEO to get a beat down in the street for them to start taking notice of the ground swell happening all over the world.

reply to post by Starchild23



Freedom is not free. My forefathers dies before me as I will if I have to to get freedom...Maybe that Idea scares you but then again it would most people who are with TPTB. The time for a change is now. You can't stop it so either get out of the way or fall like the rest. If you haven't paid attention to the uprising World wide then you are to blame for being on the wrong side.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
I keep hearing this ridiculous claim over and over and over again that policies enacted by Ron Paul if he were ever nominated President and if they ever passed through Congress, two big IFS. Then The world will be a peaceful place and a utopia. No More wars will be fought and no longer will corporations be evil or work just for Profit. How can this possibly become reality??

If Ron Paul is actually elected, I think it would be likely that there will be some new faces in the other branches of government too. If that happens he may get a chance to actualize some of his ambitions.

I would like to know how Ron Paul will stop "evil corporatism from taking over america". As some say. When his policies are genuinely pro-corporatism and will lead to eradication of all liberal government oversight policies which protect civil liberties as long as they are not over-protected which sometimes they are--Which is what I hate about government policies. I know why we need government oversight, do you?

Which policies are pro-corporatism? He wants to reduce the size of the federal government and return it to the essential functions, which are to facilitate specific interactions between states, i.e. economy and military. The EPA, FDA, etc. are all bought out and in bed with corporations anyway (there is plenty of material on this site about the shenanigans of Goldman Sachs, BP, Monsanto, etc.), so what value is their "oversight"? In Ron Paul's opinion, getting rid of these functions of the federal government saves money for taxpayers and closes the opportunities for the government to trample on rights in the name of one crusade or another.

I agree that there needs to be oversight, but it does not need to be provided by the federal government. Ron Paul supports the free market, wherein people vote for the products and companies that they like by buying the products they approve of from the companies they approve of. If you don't like Wal-Mart's moral bankruptcy, then don't shop at Wal-Mart. With less oversight, there are less taxes, which means you have more money and can be more picky as a consumer. Thus Wal-Mart would have to figure out another strategy besides "falling prices" to keep you coming back, and the "evil corporation" will have oversight in the form of picky consumers.

You don't have to be rich to be a picky consumer. I am a picky consumer already; I'm barely above the poverty line, but I buy organic and fair trade as much as possible. I do not trust the USDA or the FDA, so I always look for labels that indicate my food is certified organic/fair trade/etc from other organizations, which have nothing to do with the government. Oversight can be provided just fine without the federal government being involved, and in my experience that oversight is much better anyway. This same pickiness can be applied to any realm of commerce, so this is just an example of how government-provided oversight is wasteful and nanny-like.

To sum it up, Ron Paul says the federal government should have specific functions, which are laid out by the states. If the need for other functions arises, then states should either grant them to the federal government or create another entity which fulfills those functions. In either case the federal government exists only insofar as the states deem it necessary. The government should be run from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
I keep hearing this ridiculous claim over and over and over again that policies enacted by Ron Paul if he were ever nominated President and if they ever passed through Congress, two big IFS. Then The world will be a peaceful place and a utopia. No More wars will be fought and no longer will corporations be evil or work just for Profit. How can this possibly become reality??

Ho, jjf3rd77.

First off, I won't speak as to claims some people might make, which may be out of context or due to misunderstandings on their part - but I will say that regarding war, Paul just espouses a policy of common sense which recognizes the reality of unintended consequences (or possibly undesirable but intended-by-some? consequences, I suppose) and seeks to stop unnecessary and wasteful policies/actions while also ending what is perceived by some as our unnecessary antagonism of others...in addition to acknowledging the fiscal realities and military imbalances (we're WELL into the red - and there is absolutely no...logical...reason...for us to have a military budget equal to or exceeding the rest of the world combined).

As to evil corporations and the like, Paul also realizes that our "regulatory" climate is anything but, and actually insulates big business from outside threat and any need for actual competitive innovation, all the while stifling new/small business and valid challenge to established and connected corporate rule. Open up the playing field a bit and quit giving big business taxpayer-funded shields to hide behind (such as "regulatory" penalties that only the 'bigs' can afford to either shrug off or ignore outright, but that choke the life out of smaller upstarts). Nothing he could address on his own or in one fell swoop, but he can refuse to pass into law legislation that enables or continues such, while also using the bully pulpit of the presidency to push for change through direct education and prompting the people to put pressure on (or replace outright) their "representatives".

I believe the current shake-up we're seeing in the GOP during his campaign is a pretty good testimony to the fact that his views and ideas can definitely prompt such action, and given a wider audience with less establishment interference, I think it's amazing to imagine what we might see.

I would like to know how Ron Paul will stop "evil corporatism from taking over america". As some say. When his policies are genuinely pro-corporatism and will lead to eradication of all liberal government oversight policies which protect civil liberties as long as they are not over-protected which sometimes they are--Which is what I hate about government policies. I know why we need government oversight, do you?

Well - as to corporatism taking over america - it pretty much already has. The solution is to start empowering people - ourselves, and definitely our leaders - to start addressing the situation.

Paul is willing to actually give this a shot. Obama and Romney, not so much...at least not as far as I can tell. They both have too many of the same donors who lie squarely at the root of these problems, too many of the same espoused views and ideas, too little understanding of the root causes of these issues, and the lack of ability and experience to see these problems coming before we run out of time to fairly address them. Paul, however, called these issues ahead of time, though, usually disagreeing with the so-called experts while doing so.

You can't fix a problem by willfully continuing what caused it, or by supporting people too short-sighted to have listened to or supported those who actually understood what was going on and told you what you needed to do about it.

You don't think Paul can stop corporatism or work towards peace...but I don't think the others actually have the desire or understanding to even bother TRYING to do so, looking at those bankrolling them, their past histories, and their lack of foresight.

Take care.

reply to post by wagnificent

If Ron Paul is actually elected, I think it would be likely that there will be some new faces in the other branches of government too. If that happens he may get a chance to actualize some of his ambitions.

Well said, and I agree with you here, and Paul himself as he discusses in his My Plan for a Freedom President:

No matter what the president wants to do, most major changes in government programs would require legislation to be passed by Congress. Obviously, the election of a constitutionalist president would signal that our ideas had been accepted by a majority of the American public and would probably lead to the election of several pro-freedom congressmen and senators. Furthermore, some senators and representatives would become “born again” constitutionalists out of a sense of self-preservation.

The article is itself actually a fairly decent response to this thread, and worth a read. He acknowledges the challenges, covers what he could actually address directly himself, and lays out a succinct and realistic starting statement for his presidency.

Be well, friend.

you said "I keep hearing this ridiculous claim over and over and over again that policies enacted by Ron Paul if he were ever nominated President and if they ever passed through Congress, two big IFS. Then The world will be a peaceful place and a utopia. No More wars will be fought and no longer will corporations be evil or work just for Profit. How can this possibly become reality??"


first, he will need to be an ELECTED president, what good does a nomination do for us.

And you provide the quotes you claim have been made in your op. I think you support a compulsive liar in Romney as he flip flops to say what polls tell him to. I think your exagerations show why you can support a compulsive liar.
Ron Paul supports a strong national defense an feels wars for profit are bad for America. I have never heard the quotes you claim. Prove it or admit you are making it all up.
Nowhere have I heard anyone quote that he will end corporations from being evil or that someone will work without motive for profit. Prove someone said that or admit you made it all up.

I have never heard a RP supporter claim that the goal is a peaceful utopia.

PROVE IT OR ADMIT YOU LIED AND MADE IT ALL UP.

I bit on your other thread and I will bite here it seems. I see how it is all confusing because All promise things, then really don't deliver. RP, as president will probably never get the things he wants done, done. That being said he can VETO a large number of things that come across his desk if he is allowed to live. I am, as I have stated previously on many occasions a rp supporter, so giving a 360 to the entire country and ushering in world-peace is not likely but slowing the decent into complete madness long enough is what I am voting for. Thanks again op as I dont care about the break-downs of you political-ness and your leanings, I do care about open, meaningful discussion about the politics of our country and life.

P.S. in a pessimistic mood so this is the first time i completely agree with you Boncho

He admits that you just cant go in without implementing programs to deal with the "demolishing" the FED, Things cant happen overnight and he admits that. I dont want to lose MY social security but if it meant that I had to for world peace and less laws I would give it up in an instant, Im not saying I would if he were elected.. Right now I have an injury and no insurance, the only surgeon for 1000 miles that can do my particular surgery only accepts insurance. If it were Ron Paul OR Obamney, my situation would be the same. I cant afford 600 a month for insurance. And when you pay cash for an MRI it is 300 bucks,,if you have insurance it costs 1200 plus and THAT should be stopped, maybe thats why the insurance is so high. Back to topic, Ron Paul is a straight up guy, video proves it, I dont agree with EVERYTHING that ANYONE says but THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF PROOF that Obomney are liars, its documented on video. Honestly the establishment will take either, they work for the same people with a global agenda. If people want to vote for liars that will run this country down, then vote Obomney, your choice. You DO have a choice, unless CNN tells you what to do, which they are doing and if you vote Obomney youve been had.

What Dr. Paul can do is inform the American People about the corruption within the government.

Yes he has been trying to do this for a while, I know, but since the media ignores his stances and fails to accurately give him a voice, the masses are blind to the real corruption going on.

This will force the MSM to listen to him, as well as the masses.
People will look to him for answers and he will have them.
He will be able to veto any bill that stomps on our freedoms all the more.

The presidency gives him a voice that has been quieted by the mass media since the 70's.

His life will be in danger, just as Kennedy's life was.

I am reminded of this great speech


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

So your argument is , why vote for the guy that wants to change things for the better but will have trouble pulling it off, or vote for the guy that will 100% keep going down the current path and continue taking away from the people and benefit the corporations and government? Seems to me you just answered your own question as it appears obvious what is the right thing to do, but what do I know Im just a middle class american that foots the bill for the deadbeats of this country.

You guys are working awfully hard to try and find a legit reason to not like Paul, but most you guys are failing miserably. Yes he will have a hard fight ahead getting in and then that is just the start, he will have to bust his butt to get some good things rolling for sure its an uphill battle, but you have to see he is the only guy that at least wants to try. Does that not count for anything?

reply to post by jjf3rd77


You again? You complain about Ron Paul everyday now.

How much are they paying you and why do you hate freedom?

Originally posted by AzureSky
He wants to decentralize the government
Centralization is what allows all of this corporate control in the first place, ergo, separating it would make it that much harder for corps to infiltrate and lobby.

End the fed, also. Is the top priority of humanity because that entails the world bank,bis, and imf.

edit on 7/5/12 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

How will that help though? Decentralizing the government will only make the corporations that you hate that much more powerful since there will be less government to interfere with their "evil plans"

Originally posted by IndieA
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

You again? You complain about Ron Paul everyday now.

How much are they paying you and why do you hate freedom?

I don't like Ron Paul's idea of freedom. It's not really freedom if I am forced to do what he says even if I don't agree with it.

I figure he won't be able to get much done....BUT...he will finally get some press time to speak to the nation.

And he is good at educating people.

Originally posted by Wiz4769
So your argument is , why vote for the guy that wants to change things for the better but will have trouble pulling it off, or vote for the guy that will 100% keep going down the current path and continue taking away from the people and benefit the corporations and government? Seems to me you just answered your own question as it appears obvious what is the right thing to do, but what do I know Im just a middle class american that foots the bill for the deadbeats of this country.

You guys are working awfully hard to try and find a legit reason to not like Paul, but most you guys are failing miserably. Yes he will have a hard fight ahead getting in and then that is just the start, he will have to bust his butt to get some good things rolling for sure its an uphill battle, but you have to see he is the only guy that at least wants to try. Does that not count for anything?

No because like Obama before him he WILL NOT GET ANYTHING DONE!!!! Trying doesn't matter in politics. If you try you end up like Jimmy Carter and Obama. The two worse Presidents! If you do things you think are right you get hated like Reagan and Bush. Being President is not all Rainbows. and I don't think Ron Paul or his supporters quite get that fact.

Originally posted by boncho

I am actually surprised the constitution was written in the first place, as the ancestors to Americans must have been far smarter in their day...

Very true. But the Ron Paul movement is just the beginning. Most of his supporters are young. The new Generation that's finally old enough to start making a difference. 20 years from now these paul supporters will remember his message and those that go into politics will embrace it. People are waking up. The youth are very smart right now. And in 20-40 years, we'll be running the show.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I don't think anyone is claiming it will be butterflies and rainbows under a Paul presidency, only steps taken to eventually get to a state better than the one we are in now. In fact, in order to fix the serious corruption that exists right now, the whole system must collapse. Paul does not want an instant collapse like will happen soon if some drastic steps are not taken. Ending the fed and ending parts of govt which have proven useless and wasteful/corrupt, along with bringing all our troops home will not be an overnight thing. (well, maybe the troops would return instantly )

Oh there would be some jobs lost in the whole process, and the handful of "elite" corrupt scumbags that currently run our country would feel it the most.