JJ Abrams Star Trek 2 Script?

reply to post by vkey08


Yay!

Now we have "insiders" that say: This IS the script.

And we have "insiders" that say: This ISN'T the script.

Oh how I wish for an "official" channel. Could any of these insiders be troubled for a post or two?

1) I kinda want to know about this script

2) Uh, Trek insider...duh It would be fun just to get to chat with them!!!

reply to post by vkey08


"I'm laughing at the superior intellect."

There's this schizophrenic-like checks-and-balances system operating within Pocket Books and the masters of Trek continuity (I'd throw in the words "official" or "authorized'" or the ridiculously overused and inappropriately used "canon" but it's all bunk!). Guess what, THEY DON"T CARE about Continuity Issues. They only care about making a fast buck. I won't bother to go into the Godhood story of Michael Okuda, the man whom 99% of fans today think Really invented Star Trek, but it's all about power plays and people with Titles walking around squeezing out an extra cent here and there from the franchise.

I won't give you the full history but just to we peoples' appetitles let's go back to the 1970s. Franz Joseph was The Father of Treknical Fandom (I don't know any other way to put it). He put out the first blueprints of the USS Enterprise followed by the Star Fleet Technical Manual and everything just took off from there. Both of which were fully approved by this guy named Gene Roddenberry. In fact the first 3 Trek movies feature FJ's drawings on monitors, they use his Treknical nomenclature, and the plaques mounted inside of Admiral Kirk's shuttle taken to the Enterprise in ST II are those of the founding members of the UFP--reproduced exactly from the Technical Manual. Problem was, after this, FJ's estate held copyright and licenses on all these materials and even after the man's death they were making, what Paramount considered, Too Much. So along comes this punk named Okuda to do graphics, he absolutely trashes and ignores All the FJ contributions to Star Trek and literally wipes the slate Clean of over 15 years worth of Contributions, which include the RPG Star Fleet Battles and various offshoot blueprints and manuals. In other words, all this stuff was just declared NON CANON by chairbound execs who wanted More Money. A few years afterwards, the FASA corporation which was pounding out their own RPGs and was backed by Treknical artists like Shane Johnson (who wrote Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, Worlds of the Federation etc.)...was taking in a little too much Money of their own. So Paramount did exactly the same thing they did to first-generation Treknical fans: they trashed FASA, declared it NON-CANON, and had Okuda come up with His own original drawings and background BS to fill that void. By this time it's around the year 1990, incidentally, and all these publications which guys like me took to heart are now declared "worthless" by TPTB and "unofficial". During Okuda's reign we got some of the most asinine statements and "facts" put down in print. Like phasers can only be fired at lightspeed and can Only be used in slower-than-light combat (regardless of TOS episodes contradicting that), the whole warp scale overhaul (which Pocket Books writers took to mean applied to TOS, as in any episode where Warp 10 and above was mentioned was Wrong!), and even WORDS us first gen. fans knew by heart were Respelled. Khan NooniAn Singh is now Khan NooniEn Singh, is a biggie thanks to Okuda's "holy" Encyclopedia which has more goof and blunders than any other prior Trek reference. It took Pocket Books editors a Decade to get it through their heads that DS9's space station nominal designation of "TerEk Nor" was spelled "TerOk Nor" despite it appearing in Dozens of books, right down to a huge "official authorized" cutaway poster which sold for $40 or more in huge print!

Do you see where I'm going with this? Abrams comes along and Literally destroys the Trek universe so the new jerky writers Don't Have To Bother studying all that came before. And they can uphold Their Own frigging continuity, with a nice big middle finger to (former) fans like myself.

All in all, after Trek 2009, these guys can shell out Whatever they Want to, and fans will have to gobble it up, whether it's "wrong" or not. And just because Certain fans in certain niches at Paramount actually do cross their T's and dot their I's, doesn't make the whole fanchise machine from hell infallible. On the whole, they don't care.
And after decades of putting up with them and watching them exploit fans left and right, I don't care about them either!

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Um Wasn't Roddenberry invloved during the early years of TNG...you know when they hired the Okuda fellow?

Also, a phaser is a block of wood painted all fancy...The beam is CGI added as an after effect, so the actors don't have to go "Pew Pew Pew, I got you!"

Abrams/Okuda/Whoever didn't ruin Star Trek. You know why? Because when I watch "Encounter at Farpoint" I still see Patrick Stewart, John DeLancy, hell even DeForest Kelly! When I watch "City on the Edge of Forever" Edith Kellor still dies. The bum still vaporizes himself, and Spock still covers his ears.

And you know how they beamed McCoy to the enterprise-D? Well they used an Okuda designed prop, or an "LCARS" terminal (If we want to pretend this stuff is real.)

I for one thank Okuda for inventing the "Touch Screen". You do realize that is where engineers got the idea for all these fancy iphone things right? Just like they had flip phones cause of The Original Series.

And, TOS had some continuity errors just in terms of "reality versus sci-fi" Those, to me, are ALOT worse than spelling errors. (Check my signature!)

Anyway I guess I am done. I just think you may be taking the anger a bit far, although maybe not. The Star Wars crowd was (still is) in a uproar over those new ventures as well.

How's that for a question, which is better:

New Treks

OR

New Wars

PS: It's just a movie, if you dislike it so then do not go to it.

reply to post by adigregorio


Of course I'm taking the anger too far. That's why I started writing a book last year (partly) about it. There's a lot of nasty things in it and finger-pointing so it'll probably see publication after I croak. In the 70s and 80s I invested much time in Trek, and I paid the ultimate price thereafter. You couldn't begin to understand... (I know, I know, "It's just a stupid TV show, you dickhead, Captain! A Television Show!" - Except that it can become obsessive when the Fandom Factor is added. And from here you can probably guess that there's something of a monetary damning factor bleeding off of that. And a great loss of one's social life, and Life in general and...).

The screaming of Star WARS fans about how George Lucas "Raped my childhood" is Nothing compared to what became of the Star Trek universe. Maybe it's because the fans just sat back on their asses and Took It; were Led along like sheep and never, ever questioned who was in charge and Where it was going. Sure, it's not exclusive to Trek, for today we've seen remakes and revisions of other shows with fan-followings. But I think those smaller niche groups knew enough to keep the hell away from the Newer abominations and Not to feed their money to support future endeavors.

And don't give Okuda credit for touch screens! His LCARS BS is nothing more than a split screen Layout Format.
But by the way he's venerated these days, you'd think he invented Star Trek... He certain RE invented it, redoing massive continuity by pissing all over it.

reply to post by CaptainLJB


I have to disagree about Okuda, just because Roddenberry was around when he was picked.

Did he do somthing bad after Roddenberry went to ten forward? Is it worse than what Abrams has done?

At least Okuda was "on the right track" in the begining. And I like the LCARS interface WAY MORE than switches and nobs.

(Of course, I like Uhuras' com device more than just a button push.)

Lastly, holodecks!! And Food replicators, take that Original Series!

I would read your book, like Sybok I "share your pain".

reply to post by adigregorio


My problem with Okuda is that he became the end-all statesmen for all-Trek continuity. We have these authentic Bird-approved blueprints of the Enterprise, full deck plans and all. Along comes Okuda: "Non canon!" and he discredits the whole thing, ditto for All Treknical publications prior to His coming. Everything I collected and memorized is "Unofficial" and outright "Wrong" and dare I say it "Illegal" to Fandom.

Okuda F*cked Fandom!

Except of course His Own. He served up and "authorized" new publications, usually with more color than the old, but substandard, second-rate and Completely Contradicting the old stuff. His stuff also sold for Much more (well, I suppose we can blame Inflation, Partially) and it was half-assed researched. By the 2000's Pocket Books would not publish a "technical manual" without Okuda's name on it or permission. He ass-kissed his way around Paramount from a simplistic window-dressing graphics artist to the know-it-all of Trek, and he CUT OUT everyone else in the process.

Before Okuda came along, we had books and blueprints Building upon one another in one big friendly universe.
Take the big, beautiful USS Federation (NCC-2100) triple-nacelle lead ship of the Federation class dreadnought. Introduced in the Star Fleet Technical Manual circa 1975 by Franz Joseph. We got a whole class listing for her sister ships, some made appearances in novels over the years, not the least of which being one named "Dreadnought!" by Diane Carey. Around 1980 a dozen-page blooklet of general plans were published, showing all decks of this ship. In ST-TMP during the Epsilon 9 flyby sequence you can hear the dreadnought Entente mentioned (also of this class, as per the Technical Manual). The Star Fleet Battles wargamers proudly feature this class. It's evolution into the Federation (II) class (a movie era upgrade is featured in the Federation Reference Series, Starship Design, Ships of the Star Fleet, and several wall posters all from fandom). The sister ships have individual histories in Tech Fandom, and one of which evolved into the Star League class dreadnought in Jackills reference manuals, and from there into the Olympus class dreadnought of TNG's time.
Okuda comes along--decades after the fact--and says ALL OF THE ABOVE DOES NOT EXIST. It's NON CANON! It's Not Real Trek. Ignore it! And this is but One specific starship class out of Many. To further smear it, Okuda invents NCCs which clash with those established for this class and writes a BS article on how Three Nacelle Ships Are Impossible In The Trek Universe... How do you deal with an Asshole like this? More to the point, how do you deal with 9 out of 10 fans--who probably only started watching Trek in the 1980s--who blindly believe and support Okuda as a really cool and Fun guy who Cares about Trek and Fans because he's smiling all the time and likes to lay on stupid insider jokes on graphics labels on the new shows: "Harmful if swallowed." "Wherever you go, there you are." "Your mileage may vary" "Sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful ship." "Buckaroo Banzai Institute."...and he's the jerk who introduced the really insanely unfunny 47 number, to be used over and over again in modern Trek scripts. THAT'S Okuda's real legacy. I won't even mention how he came up with a "chronology" which contradicted the one endeared to us fans, reworked the layout of the Trek universe with new "Star Charts" (not drawn by Okuda by supervised and authorized) which now contradict Star Trek Maps from 1980, and did an all-around screwing of everything Trek that's Not his in publication. But, you know, all it takes is a Title. He took his so-called Chronology (really just a glorified episode guide with dates added) and reworked it into The Star Trek Encyclopedia which only features live-action Trek and Invents half a dozen things like ship names, numbers, and other rot WITHOUT RESEARCHING THEM. And Pocket Books ensures it's the one-and-only definitive must-have Trek reference for All True Fans etc. and sells it in hardcover for $50 or so and then issues a shovelware version for the PC with a crappy interface which locks up for twice that.

Star WARS fans were Never put through this kind of a sh!t grinder. Even the earliest Han Solo novels written shortly after the 77 film are acknowledged as integral background parts of the Wars universe among All fans. Nothing was really trashed, ignored, or thrown out the airlock. Everything was logically built upon. The biggest catastrophe were the 3 prequel films and yet they invariably backed up everything which came before. The name Coruscant for the Imperial capital for instance came out first in the Thrawn novels long before it was heard on the big screen. They have one big happy universe, even if the prequel films were poorly paced and sucked in various ways.

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
My problem with Okuda is that he became the end-all statesmen for all-Trek continuity. We have these authentic Bird-approved blueprints of the Enterprise, full deck plans and all. Along comes Okuda: "Non canon!" ...

You realize his Technical manual is also not canon, right?

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
His stuff also sold for Much more (well, I suppose we can blame Inflation, Partially) and it was half-assed researched.

This is just un-true:

TNG Technical manual: 34 new from $12.74
TOS Technical manual: 6 new from $19.50

TNG Amazon
TOS Amazon

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
Before Okuda came along, we had books and blueprints Building upon one another in one big friendly universe.

One technical manual hardly constitutes "books and blueprints". IF you are referring to FAN MADE material, I must point out Roddenberry definatly does NOT pick his fans. And if Okuda is bad, and Roddenberry CHOSE him....well...Logic dictates...

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
We got a whole class listing for her sister ships...

I think I understand what is wrong here, you don't seem to realize what "canon" is:

As Star Trek grew in both size and popularity in the 1980s, fans considered how to treat the ever-growing collection of episodes, movies, novels, comics, technical manuals, and more.

The Star Trek canon is generally defined as all live-action television series and feature films released by Paramount Pictures. With the release of Star Trek: The Animated Series on DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is now listing the cartoon series (aired 1973–1974), as a part of established canon. ([X]wbm [X]wbm [X]wbm) The various "official" references (such as the Star Trek Encyclopedia or the Star Trek Chronology) may be used as a guide to canon information, but are not canon in and of themselves.

en.memory-alpha.org...

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
To further smear it, Okuda invents NCCs which clash with those established for this class and writes a BS article on how Three Nacelle Ships Are Impossible In The Trek Universe...

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
More to the point, how do you deal with 9 out of 10 fans--who probably only started watching Trek in the 1980s--who blindly believe and support Okuda

I realize they are not me, and therefore can enjoy things I do not...

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
"Harmful if swallowed." "Wherever you go, there you are." "Your mileage may vary" "Sit right back and you'll hear a tale, a tale of a fateful ship." "Buckaroo Banzai Institute."...and he's the jerk who introduced the really insanely unfunny 47 number, to be used over and over again in modern Trek scripts.

Hmm, so you are mad at things you would never know were there if you didn't dig for them? What about the neat things he hid in plain sight?

You know you are spending alot of time berrating this fellow. And you have yet to offer one shred of proof for your claims. Like the books being more pricey, that was just false.

Okuda was hand picked by Rodenberry. I notice you keep avoiding that...

Look into the meaning of "Canon"

Before you cling to another faulty argument, let's nip it:

There exist different definitions of what can be regarded as canon. At Memory Alpha, we always try to stick to the following, most common definition.

■ Official publications by the Okudas, Rick Sternbach, Herman Zimmerman, Doug Drexler, or other people directly involved in the production process may be as good as canon, since this is where the writers and producers look up the facts. Even if these books are supplemented with some information like dates or starship specs not mentioned in the show, this might be important to limit the room for speculation.

What does "May be as good as" mean? Does it mean that it is? (Nope )

PS: We all realize as well that "The Motion Picture" is how Roddenberry wanted Star Trek to be?

It was never intended to be what it is, in fact when you watch what he wanted it is kinda boring...

The TNG was closer to his vision (while he was alive) than the TOS. (Heh The The Next Generation, and the The Original series)

That's why the "messages" in the Next Generation were so heavy. Roddenberrys' vision was for a better future. One where war and the like were gone, where you didn't need a "No smoking on the Bridge" sign, because people in the future don't smoke.

Really, you need to sit back and look at yourself. You, and I, we have a black and white face. These Abrams fans, well their faces are white and black.

reply to post by adigregorio


Black on the right side or the left side?

reply to post by CaptainLJB


Touché, friend. touché.

I know you are awesome, and I really understand your argument (Even if I kinda like Okuda... ) Keep in mind I like his LCARS designs. I think they are quite spiffy in terms of "user friendlyness capabilites". And it was a nice trope to add, versus just flipping some switches.

Again, Uhura had the proper blu-tooth--er comm device. I never like the thought of a ship-to-ship call in the Next Gen. Due to Worf just "pushing a button" (Yay, time for a scene!)

Ferengi freghter: "Sprunks, we are hailing the hoo-mans"

Comm channel: "riiiiing----riiiinng--riiinnngg"

Federation ship: "Cap'n Crunch! We are recieving a call!"

Comm channel: "riinnnng----riiiinng---riiiing"

Federation ship: "On screen Commander Obvious."

Comm channel: "Riinnnng---rinnnng--click---Hello this is the federation starship--"

Seriously!! What kind of asses take away a human operator and replace it with a machine...

TOS Scene:

Klingon Freighter: "Krunk! Moh Tach bink zuup!" (Just kidding, I don't speak Klingon")

Freighter: "Captain, hailing the humans"

Comm Channel: "This is the USS Enterprise"

(Yeah, that's the future! Humans talking to humans on phones!! LOL They got that one wrong for sure! TNG for the win!)

--wait this doesn't feel like a win

reply to post by adigregorio


As a side note, without the awesome Okuda I would not be in the process of building my very own runabout!

Unfortunatly life circumstances have put my work in impulse, once I get the dilithum of responsibilty re-crystalized I will re-enter warp.

Although 70 feet is still way to long methinks...also I don't like the clunkyness. Maybe a Delta Flyer would be a better option...that one is two stories!

Either way, without Mr. Okudas designs. I could not replicate them so well in iphone apps and other programs. And for those boosts to MY wallet, I think him greatly!!

PS: Galleleo is next after the run-a-bout, and I am not talkin' the crappy one window TNG replica! However, the TOS shuttle will be used for camping

reply to post by adigregorio


Considering that Okuda's manual and other books are THE ONLY ONES IN PRINT NOW, nobody's going to question their "canonicity". He's seen to the suppression of the non-Okuda books (yeah, it's sounds like a conspiracy best suited to ATS, too, doesn't it!). For what it's worth, Fans TODAY only consult Okuda publications when it comes to Treknology. THIS IS FREAKING WRONG FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO THE ORIGINAL SERIES WHICH OKUDA KNOWS JACK ABOUT.
Not to get too geeky, Okuda says ALL SHIPS have warp cores in their secondary hull. Going by the prints I grew up with (those Roddenberry approved ones) and the Designers of the ship's original tech, the TOS Enterprise (prior to ST-TMP) had self-contained non-networked nacelles with the so-called warp cores (then called intermix chambers) running along inside the nacelles. You have a containment failure, you can jettison the whole nacelle. That's why and how they were designed that way. You can see the interior of one nacelle in TAS' "One Of Our Planets Is Missing" episode. This was blueprinted by Geoffrey Mandel as a 13th sheet supplement to FJ's blueprints back around 1980. It's all there. Okuda rejects this. Says we just never saw the thing on the old ship and We Know Better Now for the "mistake" BS. Okuda Undermines the whole of classic Treknical Fandom this way. WE KNOW BETTER NOW. Yeah. That's just one small aspect of the sh!t I've tried to explain to today's fans. They give me the "non canon" crap, I give them the finger. I walk away pissed off. They're satisfied that TOS Treknology is trash and all that old stuff should be burned.

Ever look up the price of the original Star Fleet Technical Manual with that semi-hard cover? It's been reprinted a couple times since (thanks to Ballantine holding the rights to that!) in soft cover and generally with a crummy new styled cover... Anyhow back around 76 I got mine for around $6.95. Dunno what a first edition sells for today. I saw Bjo Trimble's original Star Trek Concordance going for $85 at one place! (I never buy off Amazon. I never buy off the Internet for that matter!).

Fan materials come in all forms. I specifically refer to High Quality products. In particular those which could or were available at bookstores across the U.S. I'm not talking about hand-drawn basement crap xeroxed and sold in zine rooms at cons here!

I KNOW what the C-word is, I also know how it's been Perverted in recent years. The point is that Okuda has no right to piss on earlier works, especially those works by other people which LED TO HIS EMPLOYMENT AT PARAMOUNT!

And yeah, the "All Good Things..." Enterprise with the off-the-scale warp factors and all is clearly dubbed Alternate Timeline/Universe and has no bearing. It still doesn't bring back the damaged Treknical Roots He Destroyed!

Okuda was hand-picked to do Window Dressing background graphics Artwork. Period. End of Sentence. AFTER RODDENBERRY DIED, Okuda just took off. He elevated himself and took control of the franchise's tech side. He took away Others' Input. HE KILLED FANDOM--Fandom that wasn't HIS OWN, that is.
Okuda was not hand-picked to pounce on other publications. Okuda was not hand-picked to write a Chronology, an Encyclopedia, a Tech Manual etc. etc.

If Roddenberry hand-picked a frigging janitor, would that give him the power to direct TNG episodes?

Incidentally, Memory Alpha is one of many fan-collectives of newbies who Again, only value MODERN MAINSTREAM TREK, as in Okuda's works. You will Never see them consulting the Treknical gems from the 70s or 80s like the non-Okuda books. Along with the Official Star Trek Magazine I think they praise anything and everything coming out with the Trek name on it as Must-Have Totally-Awesome...

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
reply to post by adigregorio

 

Considering that Okuda's manual and other books are THE ONLY ONES IN PRINT NOW

Um no

Barnes and Noble

Seriously yo, how about some sources for these claims?

And rasing the bar? With both Roddenberry and the sources I use for my disproving of your claims?

You say Okuda ruined Roddenberrys' Trek, yet Roddenberry himself picked Okuda...
You say Okuda makes it so only his books are in print, yet people still sell in-print copies of other books.
You say Okuda says "No three nacelles", I provide a screen shot of an episode Okuda himself worked on with a three nacell ship.

I prove your claims are false, and you make more false claims? That is a question, I mean I know the stuff about no warp cores in the TOS. But I don't remember Okuda saying that they were "wrong" and "mistakes". So could you please source those?

In fact, while you're at it source these too:
1)He's seen to the suppression of the non-Okuda books
2)Fans TODAY only consult Okuda publications when it comes to Treknology.
3) Okuda says ALL SHIPS have warp cores in their secondary hull.
4) Okuda has no right to piss on earlier works (How did he piss on them? Sources...)
5) AFTER RODDENBERRY DIED Okuda just took off. He elevated himself and took control of the franchise's tech side.

only value MODERN MAINSTREAM TREK

en.memory-alpha.org...

Seriously?

Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after a goal has been scored, the goalposts are moved farther to discount the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion.

Bad form...

For the readers! All this talk of blue-prints reminded me of one of my best links:

Awww Yeah!

Thanks to that site, I am making all sorts of prop replicas. Not to wear, of course, but to decorate with!

And thanks to Abrams, the Trek franchise will continue into the future (hopefully). And even if it is an alternate future, my prime past will continue to flourish. C'mon TNG series + Blu-ray! I have the TOS ones, which were fancy awesome.

Hey! What did you think of the re-do to the TOS exterior shots? Yay or Nay?

I think the entire argument can be sumed up as:

Only TOS is Star Trek and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE!

To which I say: Horsepatties.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


That is what it is looking like, unfortunatly.

I love all things Trek, even this new crap.

Well, I don't love communisim...

Well, like Billy Joel once sang:

Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
It's still rock and roll to me

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


That's basically my stance.

No matter what this is still Science Fiction (or "Rock and Roll") to me.

Do I think it should be in the Trek style? No.
Do I matter? No.

Am I glad it exists? Yes.
Do I matter? No.

Will they continue whether I care or not? Yes.
Why?

Will I go see the next one? No.
Will I watch it on blu-ray? Yes.

I think I'll be taking a break from this thread.
I sense another nervous breakdown approaching (again).
It's why I distanced myself from Trek in the first place.
Nervous breakdowns.

For what it's worth, that blueprint site is good but has but a Fraction of the materials available. There are some gems not available anywhere. Even the manuals scanned there are Incomplete. And some of those scans are piss-poor to begin with, having been taken from cheapo xeroxed copies of original blueprints which were bootleg sold. We have Okuda to blame for this, since anything Not By Okuda (or his buddy Sternbach or new buddy Mandel) are, for all intents and purposes Illegal today. And have to be passed on through dirty channels.
Pocket Books doesn't have a Clue about Treknology--they think that fans today just want pretty pictures (thus those horrible calendars and coffee table books). So when they publish a book which bombs they feel there's no audience out there for it, despite the fact that they didn't know what they were doing nor aiming for in the first place. Therefore no more are published. Therefore since only Pocket Books has the Rights to publish them, None are available. And don't give me this Amazon or Ebay as sources. All because of MICHAEL ("If it's not My way it's the Highway--and your mileage may vary") OKUDA.

If you want some interesting reading: stexpanded.wikia.com...
And specifically a download here:phoenixinn.iwarp.com...

This is what the Trek universe would have been like had the aforementioned vermin not interfered. Instead it resulted in my colleague's untimely death.

Originally posted by CaptainLJB
We have Okuda to blame for this, since anything Not By Okuda (or his buddy Sternbach or new buddy Mandel) are, for all intents and purposes Illegal today.

False

Source for MY CLAIM