Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

reply to post by Patrol


The many reason I want to continue with my education, is not solely to get a diploma, which is a nice feather in the hat but not the real goal. I'm going for Computer Engineering, I've recently finished an AA in Culinary Arts (people will always need to eat), finished my general education AA, and now I'm focusing on a skill that will allow me to interact with electronics in a different way than most. I intend to use the technical skills I acquire in school to aid me in moving further from the norm. Investment in yourself is the best bet. ALthough I see where you are coming from, and I probably could find about 50% of the information online or through textbooks that I would get in school, however I still need some style of learning structure. If it's online due dates or in class projects it helps me make the most of the situation. Believe me I have considered dropping it, I just don't feel like I've gotten everything out of the education process that I can. Plus I love math. I never need higher math in the current field I'm in. u_u

reply to post by mkkkay


Interesting concept. May be difficult to get people on board with that, still If the state where to recognize our personal coverage than maybe it could work. Or maybe start a small business intended for the sake of Auto-Insurance and do it solely as a community effort. Where profits are not the key and having a cache to draw from when one person needs it would be ideal.

reply to post by Regal445


Yes you must have it to get a Driver's License initially, then you must have it to drive in nearly all 50 states.

reply to post by OrphenFire


That certainly makes sense, I don't think I'll be forging my auto-insurance policy for that purpose, police around here do tend to check the status of the current policies from their computers in the squad car. Even if I were to have proof of insurance they will tell me to start walking and park my car, allowing for it to be towed. This actually happened to me after I picked up my car from the shop a few years back. I'd canceled it because the car was out of commission for 2 months while they were dealing with stuff. Not going into, but it was a cluster-f***.

Good Idea for some, not really what I personally am looking for.

reply to post by Xaphan


I guess I mean Stop Participating... with the current system, by implementing a more reasonable system, by finding a loop hole, by some other form than... well, walking. Food has to make it to my table from time to time and to do that at this current moment in my life, I need a job. To keep that job, I need a car. ergo, i need auto-insurance or something equally sufficient or a dramatic change in the system.

reply to post by CaptainIraq


I believe that your hypothetical A-B scenario is a little misguided. I certainly think there are more prosperous mandates that could handle scenarios like this without screwing many other individuals in the process.

reply to post by sitchin


I agree, and that's really what I'm afraid of.

If we look at history, most revolutions are either massacred or end up creating a system that fails for many years, and in turn eventually retreats to the original system. I feel like for the short-run revolutions are a good think, but in the long run, more times than not, it's a lose-lose situation.

Not sure this has been covered, but here are a few points.

1) you are only co-owner of your vehicle(s) therefor
2) you must pay the state to drive the vehicle (registration) therefore
3) you must have insurance (since you entered into a contract with the state when you bought it with the "certificate of title") therefore
4) The other owner of the vehicle demands you pay for all upkeep of said vehicle(s) inspection

How do you get out of paying insurance? By OWNING your car with a CERTIFICATE OF OWNERSHIP (must buy car outright). In texas from my understanding you are also no longer bound to have insurance, registration, inspection or a license to drive it based upon the argument that you have a RIGHT TO TRAVEL and that the term automobile is a "vehicle used in commerce"

Be prepared for all kinds of legal battles if you choose this router however.

Another point I am hoping to see addressed soon is IF obamacare gets shut down as illegal, then would the same apply to insurance (state vs federal blah blah blah), but i see a good argument if obamacare is shut down.

Again this is all a limited understanding. Look up Micahel Badnarik's online constituation course on youtube. Lots of info in there but it is 8 hours long

reply to post by FeatherofMaat


Not an option

reply to post by guavas


Lol, I think we are very like minded.

Are you left-handed?

Thanks for reading the majority of the post in their entirety, I hope you can find a workable solution for you/us. It nice to know someone really gets where I'm coming from, and I don't think completely abolishing the system is the answer either, I'd be intrigued to see someone come up with an earnest proposal to fixing the problems at hand.

reply to post by misfitofscience


Lucky you. I don't think I'll be moving to Canada.

I honestly don't think I could handle the weather up there. I visit Indiana in the winter, and it's ok for a little while, but after a week of severe weather I wouldn't want to be anywhere near there.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


The reason I mentioned your age was [only] because you said;

"Let me restate, I have payed the necessary amount, at this time, to cover any accidents, that are not life-ending, that I may cause in the future."

.........and I'm certain that there is no possible way to know that, because none of us could possibly know what the future has in store for us.

Originally posted by scoobdude
Not sure this has been covered, but here are a few points.

1) you are only co-owner of your vehicle(s) therefor
2) you must pay the state to drive the vehicle (registration) therefore
3) you must have insurance (since you entered into a contract with the state when you bought it with the "certificate of title") therefore
4) The other owner of the vehicle demands you pay for all upkeep of said vehicle(s) inspection

How do you get out of paying insurance? By OWNING your car with a CERTIFICATE OF OWNERSHIP (must buy car outright). In texas from my understanding you are also no longer bound to have insurance, registration, inspection or a license to drive it based upon the argument that you have a RIGHT TO TRAVEL and that the term automobile is a "vehicle used in commerce"

Be prepared for all kinds of legal battles if you choose this router however.

Another point I am hoping to see addressed soon is IF obamacare gets shut down as illegal, then would the same apply to insurance (state vs federal blah blah blah), but i see a good argument if obamacare is shut down.

Again this is all a limited understanding. Look up Micahel Badnarik's online constituation course on youtube. Lots of info in there but it is 8 hours long

edit on 5-5-2012 by scoobdude because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2012 by scoobdude because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2012 by scoobdude because: (no reason given)

Yes, this topic has been brought up earlier about the ownership of the vehicle, and you are right it most certainly would be a long and arduous path through the legal system to fight the principals at hand.

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
How have you become so indocrinated that your response to topics like this is, "oh, well everyone is getting screwed, just deal with it." You know that's the lazy sh*t attitude that got us into this mess in the first place, god forbid the next generation actually try and do something about. OBVIOUSLY I am not your average 25 year old. Maybe I'd like to make a change by actually doing something about by, ta da.. "Brainstorming!" as my first step. I have to start somewhere don't I?

I said nothing of the sort. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

And once again for the 5th time, I understand the risk I take with liability resting on my shoulders, however I'd rather assume that risk and not pay for something I may never reap the 'benefits' from. you say yet like it's inevitable I'll get in a wreck, I'm not 16 years old for the first time on the road. You say it's not if, but when. I say that's your reality. I place a lot of emphasis on being a careful driver. But then again what do I know, I only think that because I'm 25. For christ's sake I'm not saying I'm superman I'm saying that I'd rather assume the risk and pay out of pocket. Again, this has been covered.

That's just it though, how could you pay out of pocket when you can barely make ends meet as it is... I mean, isn't that why you started the thread, because insurance is eating into your funds too much for you to even save anything? I understand your points only too well.. my youngest son is your age, and my oldest sounds just like you..and I love them both very much. I'm not biased against you for your age or for any other reason.

Maybe shelling out huge amounts of money to go to law school is the wrong way to address the situation, how about some good ol' fashioned discussion to bring about change. I didn't realize I must attend law school to do anything worth while in the world. And as far as your snide remark about cake, I'm not solely looking for an easy solution, I don't care if it's hard, as long as it's realistic, but this has been talked about. Call me what ever names make you feel better. How about you re-read the thread in it's entirety and progress the conversation, stop beating the dead horse.

I did read the thread in it's entirety and what I see is you responding to people you feel are like-minded with kindness, but to those who disagree with you, not so much. I may have my own opinions, but I'm not against you or being rude to you. Also, I don't think it's me who is beating a dead horse.

Say whatever you like, I don't think I'll be responding to you again, especially if it's back-tracking, because it's difficult to have a conversation with someone who readily identifies their bias towards you.

You got that wrong, I'm all for finding better ways, ways that can make life better for all.Peace.

reply to post by RobinB022


I paraphrased what you had said, sorry It wasn't word for word. And that was what you were hinting at, you wanted me to know my place, shut up and accept what you had to say for fact. but is it not very reminiscent of what you did tell me?

The system being corrupt doesn't decrease your probability for finding happiness any more than it would for anyone else. This is where you appear to be whiny as a child wanting the system to change, but doing nothing about it other than a search for loopholes to get yourself out of taking responsibility or payment of insurance, in this case.

At least this is a start, and sure I asked about loopholes but certainly this discussion isn't limited to that. You refer to me as a child and bring up my age, relate me to your sons. You are ageist. You can't see it, but you are belittling me and my view because of my age. Stop focusing on what you want to see, there are many other point in this thread than the ones you've brought up.

I understand your points only too well.. my youngest son is your age, and my oldest sounds just like you

I'm not your sons I have my reasons for sounding the way I do, don't place your values and opinions of your children on me.
----
What's difficult to understand that if I weren't being leached by the system persistently that I may actually have the necessary funds to cover myself (this is not an inconceivable idea), I live within my means and don't spend my money carelessly, I work very hard for it and every cent, is and has been, precious to me.
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I respond kindly to people who are moving in the direction I wanted this thread to go. I understand all to well the perceived reasons for insurance, despite what you think I get. So when people post things moving away from the intended direction, I respond with an antagonistic approach in hopes that it moves them towards the goal. People are going to get on here to spill their two cents and then leave, most are focusing on the sub-topic not the premise, like yourself, I want forward thinkers moving in the desired direction, not more of the same old song and dance. There is nothing on the site that says I need to be nice, only civil. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. Please add to the conversation and refrain from moving away from the point, or at least, if you really have an issue with what I'm saying, PM me.

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance


Yes, this topic has been brought up earlier about the ownership of the vehicle, and you are right it most certainly would be a long and arduous path through the legal system to fight the principals at hand.

I wish you luck on your adventure. From what I have read in this thread you seem to be persistant in dedication to survival and open mindedness. Please keep this as it is refreshing to see among these boards.

reply to post by scoobdude


Thank you for the compliment.

I really am trying to find an answer, I'm tired of walking away empty handed with no answers aimed towards a solution. By whatever means, one day I will get there. I'm not the best person in the world, so I know I'll need help from others along the way.

I was in an accident that is the result of a high speed police chase. The person they were chasing hit me going 120 mph. I survived. The van that hit me didn't have insurance. Fortunately, we had uninsured motorist insurance. Most of my hospital bills have been paid, but what about my income losses? What about that the fact that I'm limited in what I can do now? What about the pain that I have to put up with all the time? Personally, I don't think that somebody not making a complete stop at a stop sign and having a suspended license was such a huge threat to society that 32 cop cars had to chase it and 3 people wind up with multiple surgeries. I had 2 myself.

reply to post by MBF


Damn man, I agree they should have been the one's who ceased and desist. They need to learn that there are some things that just aren't that important. They are like wolves. Scary stuff man, I hope you eventually make a full recovery, and any others injured by one person's carelessness. The insurance helped some, but it didn't really make everything better, money rarely does.

Alright, I've read just about enough.

Don't like insurance? It's really quite simple. Don't participate. But don't think you can just continue on like it did before. This might come as a shock to you and people like you, but the world doesn't revolve around you.

I used to be an insurance agent and have a lot of mixed feelings in regards to it but one thing it prevents is people like you, who have no regard for anybody else except yourself, from causing bodily harm, loss of assets or a complete destruction of life due to your own negligence operating an auto.

Your insurance rates too high? Guess you should've learned how to drive properly. Yeah, you might think the cops are after you or it was everybody else's fault all those times but I've never had an accident before and I've been driving for 10 years. What's the difference between me and you? One person drives responsibly while the other drives selfishly.

Insurance is there to protect people from you. It's to protect and reward drivers like me from getting screwed by drivers like you. You want to get out of the system, run away, get off the grid? Then go! You probably won't, because you are probably way to comfortable with modern comforts. So you have a choice. Get screwed by the system (And at root, yourself), get out of the system, or learn the system and use it to your advantage.

Anything else is mental masturbation between you and the pseudo "survivalists".