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Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

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posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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I live in a motor home and i only move it maybe once a year but to keep it registered i have to buy insurance year around.this Is the scam calif plays on owners of motor homes

In the last 3 years i have put a total of 16 miles on it having some repair work done on it at the local RV shop

My neighbor also has a motor home and has had for 2 years now but he illegaly has it registered in another state(Oregon) that does not require it to be insured unless you are driving it.
When he wants to take a trip for a couple weeks he goes on the internet and get one month insurance in the state the motor home is registered in (Oregon) and when he gets home he drops the insurance till he wants to use the motor home again.

i am in the process of getting two homes in shape to sell and then i am going to form a nevada corperation and register my motor home in a state where io only have to buy insurance when i want to drive it.
Screw calif.

In a couple years i likely will move back to Texas when i can




posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by RobinB022

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
Auto-Insurance seems like it should be the first to go, especially since I've used the cheapest company in town for nearly a decade to insure my vehicles and never been in an accident, as the guys explored in the other thread, I've already payed the necessary amount to cover any accidents I've caused.


[I made bold the parts that interested me in your comment] Reading through this thread I've seen several questionable comments you've made. I don't believe that you are the upstanding citizen you claim to be, and the evidence of this is clear that you simply want to find a way to make it easy and convenient to be (& act) irresponsibly.

We all have to follow the same laws that you do, and by not paying insurance you do realize that someone will pay for your irresponsibility if an accident were to occur. I don't think you care about that though.. as long as it's saving you from paying anything.

Essentially you are asking the members here to help you find a way out of paying because you feel that the members here are intelligent enough to be able to give you the answers that you can't come up with yourself.


I'm sorry I didn't use future plu-perfect syntax, my bad, a simple slip of the tongue. Let me restate, I have payed the necessary amount, at this time, to cover any accidents, that are not life-ending, that I may cause in the future.

I was responding to a lot of people rapidly and wasn't focused on every little detail of my writing, thanks for catching it though.

While you're at making assumptions, why don't you assume you don't really know anything about me. You can say whatever you like about my character, I have no reason to defend myself from you. I've progressed the conversation to the point of where I have something workable.

I have to agree that if you are responsible, take accountability.... I've said all this I'm not saying it again. Ya know, obviously you didn't read the whole thread so rigorously as you think. Yes I had a problem, I asked intelligent people, I got intelligent answers, what is wrong with that exactly? Ever heard of brainstorming, bouncing ideas off people, hearing what others have to say. It's a good place to start when presented with any problem.

Finally, yes I do have a problem following some of the laws, not all mind you. Some make a lot of sense, while others are questionable, BUTTTTT that's not really what I'm getting at. It's really the 'Network of Social Institutions' that I'm trying to get away from, laws, police, taxes are all part of that corrupt system. [edit] while these systems are necessary for the functioning of a governing body, at least in today's age, I don't think they are properly established or even remotely capable to address 21st century issues. [end edit]

Let me pose a question to you, "Is it 'right' that I should be 'forced' (I use that word loosely, nothing has been utterly forced upon me, it's more like choosing between the stick and the hammer) to participate in a system I find morally corrupt and decreases my probability for finding happiness? I'd go out on a limb and say there are a whole lot of people that feel the way I do, I'm sure they would like to know similar answers, so if I come off as whiner who's trying to find out what I can do, maybe, just maybe I'm really talking to person looking for the answers we are exploring here.

Like I said before, it's not about me. It's about changing our perspective on a daily basis. I started by narrowing it down to a system I strongly disagree with, that has done little to provide me with anything of value. I figure it's one stepping stone, you have to start somewhere. I'm starting with Auto-Insurance.

Surely there is a better way to address car accidents than the current system we deal with now, there must be a simpler, less corporate-serving way of providing auto-insurance. Is that something you just don't consider possible? and not just you, this is directed at everyone that has replied....

I never imagined it would be so exhausting trying to be clear to people, I mean there are only so many words in the english language.
edit on 5-5-2012 by wishful1gnorance because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2012 by wishful1gnorance because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2012 by wishful1gnorance because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by ANNED
 


Wow, fantastic idea for the individual, that sounds like a great start. He didn't get rid of it, but he certainly limited the need for it.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by wishful1gnorance
 


If your garden is getting scorched..... put up some partial shade! Pergola or something. Simple, cheap, effective. If you get in an accident.... how will you pay if not insurance? Not for you, but the other guy if you are at fault. Why should the other party be put out because you caused an accident and are too poor to fix his vehicle?



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by LOLZebra
 


You make the system out to seem really benevolent. Yes it may help a FEW people, but the majority of insurance customers are not getting helped, and you must consider the majority, not every hypothetical and anomaly. You've only been there for a little over a year, I'd hold off on being so certain of your employers intentions. The link in the OP, has a post from a man who worked in the industry for over a decade (can't remember, fact check I'll probably be wrong, maybe it was longer, either way...) He had the complete opposite view of the system and was able to identify the in's-&-out's of how people were getting f****d.

Auto Insurance provides little to nothing for the vast majority of it's customers. If they were only making 5% profit we'd see accidents occurring every 30 seconds in every city/town across the country (yes that is bullsh*t that I just made up, but it makes a lot of sense). That is simply not the case. though.

Also where the hell did you get your numbers?



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by jaxnmarko
 


your question has been asked by others and I have answered. There is no point in me reiterating why I think Auto-Insurance is a scam and a fraud, there MUST be a better system to address auto-liability. The system at hand screws us. Let us, as a group of like minded people come up with something better.

We as an online community need to produce relevant and realistic solutions. Not pandering, ranting, and fictitious scenarios. Let's have real goals as a community, other than finding out the latest Doom & GLOOM and berating others for producing alternative opinions.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
reply to post by LOLZebra
 


You make the system out to seem really benevolent. Yes it may help a FEW people, but the majority of insurance customers are not getting helped, and you must consider the majority, not every hypothetical and anomaly. You've only been there for a little over a year, I'd hold off on being so certain of your employers intentions. The link in the OP, has a post from a man who worked in the industry for over a decade (can't remember, fact check I'll probably be wrong, maybe it was longer, either way...) He had the complete opposite view of the system and was able to identify the in's-&-out's of how people were getting f****d.

Auto Insurance provides little to nothing for the vast majority of it's customers. If they were only making 5% profit we'd see accidents occurring every 30 seconds in every city/town across the country (yes that is bullsh*t that I just made up, but it makes a lot of sense). That is simply not the case. though.

Also where the hell did you get your numbers?


It's a business like any other. Sure it helps some people if they get into an accident.
Majority of people pay more into it than they get out of it, true.
I've actually benefited from it at times, when a tree fell on my car at night and they paid $3000 to get it fixed (I had to pay the $500 deductible out of pocket). I'm sure i've paid more into it then I've gotten out of it though.

My employer intentions are to make as much money as they can off me, so they push me to make money so they can get paid more.. Although I'll admit I don't have much experience with auto insurance as I'm not licensed to do that yet. Not sure if I want to either heh.

I don't see how the profit margins correlate with the amount of accidents occurring. They have actuaries that do the math. If they started to lose money because they were paying out more in claims than they were taking in they would not be in business long, and would have to adjust the premiums higher to be able to compensate. If they were to make a higher profit margin, some other company would enter the industry to undercut them and take the market share away from them, thus lowering the prices eventually as that would make the original company lose profit.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I wish we didn't really have to be forced to buy insurance but in our sue happy nation it's unfortunately a necessity if you don't want to end up in financial ruin.

Also my numbers came from the post by Jean Paul Zodeaux.
Here is the link.

3-6% is pretty common for a profit margin.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
I'm sorry I didn't use future plu-perfect syntax, my bad, a simple slip of the tongue. Let me restate, I have payed the necessary amount, at this time, to cover any accidents, that are not life-ending, that I may cause in the future.


There is no possible way for you to know that considering you are 25 yrs of age.


I was responding to a lot of people rapidly and wasn't focused on every little detail of my writing, thanks for catching it though.


Your welcome. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.


While you're at making assumptions, why don't you assume you don't really know anything about me. You can say whatever you like about my character, I have no reason to defend myself from you. I've progressed the conversation to the point of where I have something workable.


I don't claim to know anything about you other than what you have allowed me to know in this thread. And of course I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you want your cake & eat it too.. but not have to pay for it yourself.


I have to agree that if you are responsible, take accountability.... I've said all this I'm not saying it again. Ya know, obviously you didn't read the whole thread so rigorously as you think. Yes I had a problem, I asked intelligent people, I got intelligent answers, what is wrong with that exactly? Ever heard of brainstorming, bouncing ideas off people, hearing what others have to say. It's a good place to start when presented with any problem.


Indeed!!


Let me pose a question to you, "Is it 'right' that I should be 'forced' (I use that word loosely, nothing is really utterly forced upon me, more like choosing between the stick and the hammer) to participate in a system I find morally corrupt and decreases my probability for finding happiness? I'd go out on a limb and say there are a whole lot of people that feel the way I do, I'm sure they would like to know similar answers, so if I come off as whiner who's trying to find out what I can do, maybe, just maybe I'm really talking to person looking for the answers we are exploring here.


I understand that, but we were all born into this system and it's just as un/fair for all of us. Because you mentioned insurance in your OP, that is the direction I took with my reply. The system being corrupt doesn't decrease your probability for finding happiness any more than it would for anyone else. This is where you appear to be whiny-as a child wanting the system to change, but doing nothing about it other than a search for loopholes to get yourself out of taking responsibility or payment of insurance, in this case.


Like I said before, it's not about me. It's about changing our perspective on a daily basis. I started by narrowing it down to a system I strongly disagree with, that has done little to provide me with anything of value. I figure it's one stepping stone, you have to start somewhere. I'm starting with Auto-Insurance.


Good luck with that. But if you stop paying and you are in an accident, who exactly will you expect to help you out financially? Do you expect the other party to pay, and if not who will-nothing is free. Insurance hasn't provided you with anything of value.... yet!


Surely there is a better way to address car accidents than the current system we deal with now, there must be a simpler, less self-serving way of providing auto-insurance. Is that something you just don't consider possible? and not just you, this is directed at everyone that has replied....


Perhaps that's something you can figure out-you did mention law school right? I think there is room for change, improvement.


I never imagined it would be so exhausting trying to be clear to people, I mean there are only so many words in the english language.


Yes, but there are several ways of looking at things. It doesn't have to be exhausting.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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I have to chime in here.

In my province, auto insurance is a blessing compared to most provinces that have private auto insurance. It is truly a scam what others have to pay.

We have what's called 'socialized' government insurance. Sure, it's a monopoly, but we do not get raped for our premiums.

This is i a province where we don't cancel school, or work even in the most terrifying blizzards known to man

We don't salt our roads, and 6 months of the year the asphalt is glare ice. Temps hit 30 below quite often.

How do we keep our insurance lowest in North America?

A few reasons.....

a) our gov't does not NEED to make a profit from the public for this insurance. It's mandate is to break even and cover administration costs.

b) we do not have ambulance chasing lawyers like our neighbours to the south. Our culture is not litigious by nature, so ridiculous settlements are not very common.

c) people know how to drive when it snows, rains, etc. WE slow down.

d) we have a system of No-fault insurance that most people opt for. It is non-litigious in nature and keeps costs down.

Kids that just get their license enjoy the same premiums as those who have never been in an accident in 40 years.

You may think that sucks but EVERYONE enjoys low premiums all year round so no-one really loses.

I am proud of this system and I rue the day that an administration will come in and privatize our auto insurance.

There is no need for ANYONE to pay more than 1500 a year on a brand new vehicle unless it's a Ferrari.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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I just wanted to say thanks for the thread. I have enjoyed reading it all and like you and others I am very interested in lowering my dealings with "the state", getting off the grid etc... It is a shame so much focus has been put on the insurance sub-topic of this thread but that is generally how ATS goes. Oh well. Still despite that It has been nice to get some very good links and thoughtful replies, so OP thanks again for the thread and best of luck with you goals.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by LOLZebra

I don't see how the profit margins correlate with the amount of accidents occurring. They have actuaries that do the math. If they started to lose money because they were paying out more in claims than they were taking in they would not be in business long, and would have to adjust the premiums higher to be able to compensate. If they were to make a higher profit margin, some other company would enter the industry to undercut them and take the market share away from them, thus lowering the prices eventually as that would make the original company lose profit.


I'm sure they have pretty deep coffers to reach into if they actually decided to do the right thing. Anyway, I'm unfamiliar with the actuaries, but to me the profit margins would seem to logically correlate with the number of accidents that occur. I'd go so far to say that the reason there aren't more accidents is because people drive around vary cautiously not just to avoid infractions but to avoid rising premiums due to accidents. Even by what you said it shows the correlation, sure there are automatic adjustments that are made, but at that moment before raising premiums (mid-payment? seems like they would have to wait until the policy term was up) their profit would be affected.

I'd approximate that ~50% of auto-insurees stay with their company even if premiums are raised a little bit one or two times, but in excess it's illogical. That makes me skeptical as to the immediate undercutting by competing agencies. I'd say that by acknowledging practices like that during foresight is a main reason for higher premiums in general.

5% profit seems fictitious to me. That just simply can't be right. That would have to mean that nearly 50% (made up number, but I think I'm in the ball park) of their customers were in accidents, or they payed huge bonuses to executives. It doesn't seem in a business like that there are too many constant overhead costs.

Either way you spin it, people are getting screwed from this insurance system more so than people are benefiting from it. We should put emphasis on establishing legal boundaries for these insurance company's policies so that they aren't aimed at profit, it should not solely be a business prospect. When you have to have it to even drive a car which you need to have a job to pay for everything else that is needed to maintain a modern lifestyle, it should either be a government institution (which atm I'd still be highly speculative of, also government spending usually aims to go even, if they profited they spent their money poorly, strangely enough this is a popular macroeconomic concept) or should be a primary cost to start driving, which may be just as self defeating as the current system. There must be a better alternative.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:24 AM
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reply to post by Goldcurrent
 





Kids that just get their license enjoy the same premiums as those who have never been in an accident in 40 years...

I am proud of this system and I rue the day that an administration will come in and privatize our auto insurance. There is no need for ANYONE to pay more than 1500 a year on a brand new vehicle unless it's a Ferrari.


I pay $40 a month for my auto insurance for a grand total of $480 a year for one of my cars. All three of my cars combined (an SUV for travel, a Van for hauling and a sports car for fun) I pay a total of $2040. Just wanted to give an example of how Privatized auto insurance isn't all that bad of a deal.

I feel a system that rewards good driving habits and punishes bad driving habits with either increased or decreased prices not only benefits responsible behavior but is inherently more fair and just. I like that my insurance rates reflect my exemplary history of good driving habits and I am equally happy to not have to subsidize unsafe or inexperienced drivers by having to pay a higher rate than I deserve.

Just my thoughts. In any event I am glad that you enjoy what you have in place.
edit on 5-5-2012 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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I agree, that it CAN work for some, but the majority suffer in that system. Why should someone who's 24 years old who's never had an infraction, pay a ridiculous sum to drive, just because they fall in the age bracket of 16-25?

Here, a 16 year old could easily insure 3 vehicles for under $2000 a year.

I was using $1500 as a benchmark as the highest premium on a new luxury vehicle/sports car.

OP has to pay 2400 a year for an old beat up half tonne?

Outrageous!!



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by RobinB022

There is no possible way for you to know that considering you are 25 yrs of age.

I don't claim to know anything about you other than what you have allowed me to know in this thread. And of course I could be wrong, but it seems to me that you want your cake & eat it too.. but not have to pay for it yourself.

I understand that, but we were all born into this system and it's just as un/fair for all of us. Because you mentioned insurance in your OP, that is the direction I took with my reply. The system being corrupt doesn't decrease your probability for finding happiness any more than it would for anyone else. This is where you appear to be whiny-as a child wanting the system to change, but doing nothing about it other than a search for loopholes to get yourself out of taking responsibility or payment of insurance, in this case.


Like I said before, it's not about me. It's about changing our perspective on a daily basis. I started by narrowing it down to a system I strongly disagree with, that has done little to provide me with anything of value. I figure it's one stepping stone, you have to start somewhere. I'm starting with Auto-Insurance.


Good luck with that. But if you stop paying and you are in an accident, who exactly will you expect to help you out financially? Do you expect the other party to pay, and if not who will-nothing is free. Insurance hasn't provided you with anything of value.... yet!


Surely there is a better way to address car accidents than the current system we deal with now, there must be a simpler, less self-serving way of providing auto-insurance. Is that something you just don't consider possible? and not just you, this is directed at everyone that has replied....




Wow so you are saying my perspective is solely limited just because of my age? That is the absolutely most close minded remark I've ever heard regarding my age. Obviously! I couldn't understand the consequences simply because I'm not old enough to grasp it. If you have children, is that how you raised them? I can take criticism as I have been all day with out blowing up, except for once on that shill, but you're being (god I hate this word) ageist, and it's infuriating to even discuss anything with somebody who has bias towards you simply because of a unchangeable attribute. Nothing that comes out of my mouth will ever be a reasonable answer and will all sound like whining.

How have you become so indocrinated that your response to topics like this is, "oh, well everyone is getting screwed, just deal with it." You know that's the lazy sh*t attitude that got us into this mess in the first place, god forbid the next generation actually try and do something about. OBVIOUSLY I am not your average 25 year old. Maybe I'd like to make a change by actually doing something about by, ta da.. "Brainstorming!" as my first step. I have to start somewhere don't I?

And once again for the 5th time, I understand the risk I take with liability resting on my shoulders, however I'd rather assume that risk and not pay for something I may never reap the 'benefits' from. you say yet like it's inevitable I'll get in a wreck, I'm not 16 years old for the first time on the road. You say it's not if, but when. I say that's your reality. I place a lot of emphasis on being a careful driver. But then again what do I know, I only think that because I'm 25. For christ's sake I'm not saying I'm superman I'm saying that I'd rather assume the risk and pay out of pocket. Again, this has been covered.

Maybe shelling out huge amounts of money to go to law school is the wrong way to address the situation, how about some good ol' fashioned discussion to bring about change. I didn't realize I must attend law school to do anything worth while in the world. And as far as your snide remark about cake, I'm not solely looking for an easy solution, I don't care if it's hard, as long as it's realistic, but this has been talked about. Call me what ever names make you feel better. How about you re-read the thread in it's entirety and progress the conversation, stop beating the dead horse.

Say whatever you like, I don't think I'll be responding to you again, especially if it's back-tracking, because it's difficult to have a conversation with someone who readily identifies their bias towards you.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:42 AM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad it helped. I guess that's really what I wanted. Not just help for me, but help for others. So I have accomplished something today, even if it was a small accomplishment.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:43 AM
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The fact that nearly 75% of responses say they believe in this shows a lack of understanding about what we can and can't do.

A. You can do whatever you want. Its your choice, or your not truly free.

You never asked for these rules or systems you were born into them as slaves. They are all fake and you have NO responsibility to them. The illusion of civilization is the only thing keeping these rules and systems intact.

There will always be good and bad people, rules and laws will never change that, maybe it's time to change our approach and move forward.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by Goldcurrent
 


My current insurance rate and premiums are for an extended coverage policy. Because just like everyone else's concern on here, what if the uninsured driver hits you, well I'm covered for that but I pay out the ass for the hypothetical. Thanks for your comments, I don't think I'll be moving to ?Canada?... anytime soon. I bet things do run a little smoother when insurance is a low flat rate across the board that is monopolized and not aimed at pure profit or revenue. Even though generally socialist policies are damaging to a system, in this case, not so much. And from what we discussed in economics Canadian dollar is almost worth the same as the USD now. Yeah the nominal exchange rate is less than a cent off.
www.advfn.com...



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by TheKingsVillian
The fact that nearly 75% of responses say they believe in this shows a lack of understanding about what we can and can't do.

A. You can do whatever you want. Its your choice, or your not truly free.

You never asked for these rules or systems you were born into them as slaves. They are all fake and you have NO responsibility to them. The illusion of civilization is the only thing keeping these rules and systems intact.

There will always be good and bad people, rules and laws will never change that, maybe it's time to change our approach and move forward.



Preach it! For once lets reenter a time where the system is guided by popular demand and what works for the majority, not the the minority. While I don't mean to say forget about the minority, but I think the only minority left in America is sleeping just fine at night.



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by wishful1gnorance
 


Yeah, I guess it's apples to oranges.

Although liability insurance is included in all of our premiums, we don't really have to worry about paying someone's medical bills even if uninsured, since I'm from the birthplace of Universal Healthcare. EVERYONE is medically insured.

Just a different perspective I reckon.
edit on 5-5-2012 by Goldcurrent because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by wishful1gnorance
 


The problem is worldwide and is not limited by borders and names.
But other than that I agree with you.




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