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Dog Kills Newborn. Father Charged. Should he be charged?

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posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by MastaShake

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by MastaShake

Originally posted by smithjustinb


Yeah, I understand that that's how it is, but I don't understand how its fair and just. People should not be responsible for "pet's" actions. "Pet's" should be responsible for their own actions.



The stupidity of this post baffles me. i honestly dont know how to respond.


If my dog gets out of the cage and kills someone, you shouldn't put me in jail. Kill my dog, he's the only one who commited a "crime". Yeah yeah, I know. Technically I committed the crime, but what did I really do? Its not like I let the dog out of the cage, the dog got out on its own, probably in an unpredictable way. Its just not fair is all I'm saying.




If the dog gets out of its cage and kills someone then its YOUR fault for not securing the dog properly. the dog will probably be killed but you will also be thrown in jail for neglect. And dogs do not have thumbs, if you had a proper cage meant for your dog it would NOT get out. The only person it wouldnt be fair for is the one that got mauled because of your neglect


its common sense, if you have a dangerous dog in your care then you need to keep tabs on it and accept responsibility for what it does.


Maybe I thought I secured the lock on the cage. It isn't fair to be held accountable for accidents. That's all I'm saying.




posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by mee30
Hmmm well firstly what do they mean by a swing? Like outside? I'm assuming not...


It's a small, indoor swing. Children, toddlers and babies should never be left alone in those things. There are oodles of horror stories about those baby swings.

I think the swings can be made to automatically swing the baby.

Bad parents plunk their babies in them for hours, unattended. It's lazy parenting.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


So a drunk driver shouldn't be put in jail for accidentally running over a child and the family?


This isn't the same as that. There's a difference between an accident with a sober mind and an accident with a self-induced fogged mind.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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I dont think the guy should face prison, he's already gonna have to carry this for life. However!!!! A child that young should not be left in a swing while he sleeps. This is down to the system creating dum people.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Because animals are animals. If you decide to take on the responsibility of a dog, you decide to take on the consequences that come with that decision. Same with an underage kid, you are responsible for damages done by your kid.

It's amazing that you think you can have a dog and not be responsible for it. You must think you can shoot to kill random innocents and get away with it. It was the bullets fault after all


I'm just saying there are a lot of unpredictable variables to be considered. Maybe you have a pretty large sized fenced in area and there are some bushes scattered throughout and the dog has been digging a hole on the fence line behind a bush and you were completely oblivious. Then the dog digs through and kills someone.

You're a standup guy who does community service, you're faithful to your wife, you don't drink, do drugs, you work hard every day. You have a happy family. You and your happy family are sitting around the table one night having a normal happy family meal when all of a sudden there is a knock on your door. You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.

And all of that was because of something that was completely out of your control.

How are any of you seriously going to tell me this is justice? You're deluded. God have mercy on your soul.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Because animals are animals. If you decide to take on the responsibility of a dog, you decide to take on the consequences that come with that decision. Same with an underage kid, you are responsible for damages done by your kid.

It's amazing that you think you can have a dog and not be responsible for it. You must think you can shoot to kill random innocents and get away with it. It was the bullets fault after all


I'm just saying there are a lot of unpredictable variables to be considered. Maybe you have a pretty large sized fenced in area and there are some bushes scattered throughout and the dog has been digging a hole on the fence line behind a bush and you were completely oblivious. Then the dog digs through and kills someone.

You're a standup guy who does community service, you're faithful to your wife, you don't drink, do drugs, you work hard every day. You have a happy family. You and your happy family are sitting around the table one night having a normal happy family meal when all of a sudden there is a knock on your door. You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.

And all of that was because of something that was completely out of your control.

How are any of you seriously going to tell me this is justice? You're deluded. God have mercy on your soul.




So you're saying that if my dog got out of my yard and killed your small kid you wouldn't want me to be held responsible? I honestly don't think anyone with an iq over 70 could lack the ability to place yourself in someone's shoes.


IF my dog were to do something like this I would feel responsible for this. If this guy doesn't think he deserves time for this, he shouldn't have kids.

If you honestly think that this guy isn't responsible for this, then you shouldn't own pets. I get it, you don't like the law, so try to change it. Until then when you take on the ownership of an animal then you KNOW you will be held responsible.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.


You continue to DERAIL your own thread.

I've never heard of any "criminal" offense being charged in these type cases of animal ownership liability. It's CIVIL cases. The owner gets sued for damages.

Sure, an unresponsible pet owner whose pet gets loose might get a ticket for an unrestrained or unconfined pet ... but, the whole liability issues when or if they bite somebody comes under civil law, not criminal law.

The man in the OP story isn't going to jail for 10 years because of the dog ... it's because he left the child unattended.


has been charged with illegal neglect of a child.
www.wyff4.com...
edit on 2/5/2012 by Trexter Ziam because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by dorkfish87

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Because animals are animals. If you decide to take on the responsibility of a dog, you decide to take on the consequences that come with that decision. Same with an underage kid, you are responsible for damages done by your kid.

It's amazing that you think you can have a dog and not be responsible for it. You must think you can shoot to kill random innocents and get away with it. It was the bullets fault after all


I'm just saying there are a lot of unpredictable variables to be considered. Maybe you have a pretty large sized fenced in area and there are some bushes scattered throughout and the dog has been digging a hole on the fence line behind a bush and you were completely oblivious. Then the dog digs through and kills someone.

You're a standup guy who does community service, you're faithful to your wife, you don't drink, do drugs, you work hard every day. You have a happy family. You and your happy family are sitting around the table one night having a normal happy family meal when all of a sudden there is a knock on your door. You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.

And all of that was because of something that was completely out of your control.

How are any of you seriously going to tell me this is justice? You're deluded. God have mercy on your soul.




So you're saying that if my dog got out of my yard and killed your small kid you wouldn't want me to be held responsible?


No man. I honestly wouldn't. It wouldn't be your fault. I would kill your dog though. I would be infinitely sad about my loss but I wouldn't presume that just because my baby died, someone has to go to jail. That's ignorant.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Trexter Ziam
 


This guy isn't being charged with what the animal did. He is being charged for his negligent abandonment of an unsupervised kid. If there weren't a dog and the kid ended up dying in one of the various potential hazards of the swing he was in, the father would still be a negligent parent.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I hope you never have to learn how wrong you are



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Originally posted by smithjustinb
You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.


You continue to DERAIL your own thread.


Well let's get back on topic then.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I hope you never have to learn how wrong you are


Same to you.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Because animals are animals. If you decide to take on the responsibility of a dog, you decide to take on the consequences that come with that decision. Same with an underage kid, you are responsible for damages done by your kid.

It's amazing that you think you can have a dog and not be responsible for it. You must think you can shoot to kill random innocents and get away with it. It was the bullets fault after all


I'm just saying there are a lot of unpredictable variables to be considered. Maybe you have a pretty large sized fenced in area and there are some bushes scattered throughout and the dog has been digging a hole on the fence line behind a bush and you were completely oblivious. Then the dog digs through and kills someone.

You're a standup guy who does community service, you're faithful to your wife, you don't drink, do drugs, you work hard every day. You have a happy family. You and your happy family are sitting around the table one night having a normal happy family meal when all of a sudden there is a knock on your door. You answer the door and cops put you in hand cuffs. Now your children and wife are crying with confused looks on their faces. Your children are crying, "No! Don't take my daddy", but have to watch in unbelief as their perfectly normal upstanding great father gets taken away to spend 5 years in a federal penetentiary with the lowest of the low.

And all of that was because of something that was completely out of your control.

How are any of you seriously going to tell me this is justice? You're deluded. God have mercy on your soul.


Yes, it is justice. if MY dog managed to somehow get out and maul someone then i would have to take responsibility for it. this would never happen though since im sure the dog cant get out of my yard even if i left him unattended for a month. he also has a gps shock collar on so i would know the second he stepped off of my property via a fancy thing called a text message.


and telling the cops "i thought i locked the gate" is like telling them "i thought i stopped at that red light" or "i thought there were no bullets in the gun"

also, i live in a fairly bad neighborhood so chances are the dog would get killed before he got to do any mauling
edit on 2-5-2012 by MastaShake because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2012 by MastaShake because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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It seems one must be aware of every single possible scenario that may happen in their lives. The father committed the crime when he failed to adequately predict his pet would kill his child, if left alone, as such he is guilty a premeditated murder of a child. This is plain and simple, there are not accidents in the eyes of the law, only failed opportunities to fully vet all scenarios.

Now, had the father stated he assessed the situation well before taking the actions mentioned, and determined that there was no issue, then he would not be guilty of premeditated murder, but manslaughter; for misjudging the result of his actions.

The law is clear on these matters, there are no accidents if the information can be turned, twisted or in some way manipulated to show the person should have known exactly, to the "t," what would happen and failed to take the necessary precautions. In this case, he should have killed the dog before he had the baby, but alas he'd be guilty of owning a dog he intended not to keep should a child be born, so to stave off that offense, he have to keep the dog, but permanently chain it up, but to stave off the offense of animal cruelty for chaining the dog, he'd have to....

The real beauty of the law the way it is enforced is each action taken against a person who fails to adequately account for all possibilities is it results in revenue for the state - it is a nice payday for uncle sam and the local samettes when a person fails to understand there are no accidents, only crimes of thought, action, failure to take action or failure to taken into account all possible outcomes from all actions take at all times.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Yes, he should be charged. Who in their right mind lets the kid play on the swing and go to bed?

Any number of incidents could have happened while he was sleeping.

Not watching you child play on a potentially dangerous object near a potentially dangerous dog is child neglect, especially when the father went to sleep.

He should be charged!!!



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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I'm so sick of the elitest attitude from people. Micro- managing/can't mind your own bussiness. . If you don't do what they expect you to do...or your IQ is lower so you may not think of the outcome of a given situation....so to hell w/ the circumstances....let's prosecute him here and come to our own conclusions and justice. Like an idiot said before this post...." he probably did it on purpose!"

Yea...ok

Common sense might not come as easy to some as others. so that makes you a far better person..ey!?

" I never ever leave my kid Un-attended for any length of time...."

Get off your high horse.....leaving into the next room is considered Un-attended...O- butt...you never do that...your the smartest, most common of sense of all people ever!!!!!!

Gag

I won't make up my mind concerning this until I hear all the facts!


edit on 2-5-2012 by tracehd1 because: Add



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


If you were paying attention you'd know the dog wasn't his, he was dog sitting for someone. Again, the crime he committed was leaving his kid unattended. The kid could have fallen from the swing. He could have been kidnapped. He could have vomited and choked to death on it. There are a lot of ways a young kid can die, and most of them are knocked off the list when that kid is being cared for. According to you this guy isn't responsible at all. I presume you don't have children since having even one would help you understand how precious young life is.

This kid will never grow up, he can't have a future now because of this mans actions, and you side with him? I'm guessing you blame the woman for getting raped too. And I bet you think the kids molested by priests were at fault for being near priests? Think about your logic, it's flawed. Think about what the mother had to go through and is going through now. All because this backwards hick decided it was nappy time?



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by dorkfish87
reply to post by crankyoldman
 


If you were paying attention you'd know the dog wasn't his, he was dog sitting for someone. Again, the crime he committed was leaving his kid unattended. The kid could have fallen from the swing. He could have been kidnapped. He could have vomited and choked to death on it. There are a lot of ways a young kid can die, and most of them are knocked off the list when that kid is being cared for. According to you this guy isn't responsible at all. I presume you don't have children since having even one would help you understand how precious young life is.

This kid will never grow up, he can't have a future now because of this mans actions, and you side with him? I'm guessing you blame the woman for getting raped too. And I bet you think the kids molested by priests were at fault for being near priests? Think about your logic, it's flawed. Think about what the mother had to go through and is going through now. All because this backwards hick decided it was nappy time?



I was being factitious. Though, the fact that everything is a crime is a crime. What do we expect here? There is no law what requires parents to pass a test before they have a child like a drivers license, or beauticians license, hell even a busboy needs to pass a test, but parenting requires only 10 seconds of shagging with a person you like or hate and it's off to child rearing. In most cases folks were dis-informed in school and aren't capable of doing more then the least. Also, first time soul expressions on earth tend not to get things right the first or even the 20th time them do things.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by crankyoldman
 


Actually as a gay couple me and my partner (currently engaged to be married) have been jumping through hoops to show we are worthy and they still try to stall and derail us.
I have absolutely no issue with this. I think everyone should have to prove they are capable of rearing kids.

As far as the multiple life things I refrain from judgement. All of my experience in the paranormal fields have led me not to believe in reincarnation. However I'm not saying it isn't possible, I just haven't seen it.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 11:39 PM
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Very tragic. Easy to say what the father should have done now and I bet that dog was sweet animal prior to this, but my lord who leaves a newborn alone in a swing to go off and sleep in another room. Even if there was no dog in the house that is not smart.




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