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Is Satan really on God's side?

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posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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I was thinking about this and actually got many others to get a theological headache from this. Decided to post here to see what the masses at ATS felt.

I was raised Methodist since 1973 but have lately in the last 5 or so years taken a more 'polytheist agnostic' view as I personally feel the extreme left/right of it (Religion/Atheism) isn't for me personally as I feel neither side knows 100% for sure if it's true or not. Anyway, not my point. Just giving a base on where I personally stand.

Also, the following is not based on if they exist or not. It's just a hole I found. I like finding holes in things. May be why I love Swiss Cheese so much. Anyhow:

I think the Devil is doing Gods work.

Think on it. For those religious folk who try to convert non believers over to God, they tell them they'll be rewarded with life after death, reunited with passed on loved ones ,etc, right? And if people choose to not believe in God, or if they do bad, they burn in hell and are punished, tortured etc by the Devil.

It's also said that the Devil tries to tempt Man away from God, to denounce Him and not believe in Him. That's what he wants to do.

To convert believers into non believers to be on the Devils side.

So, if he ends up getting people to denounce God, go against him and therefore come to hell, why would he PUNISH them and torture them and make them burn?

He should reward them for coming to his side, yes? By eternally torturing them for turning away from God, he's doing God's work. He's on God's side. He's on God's payroll. "Listen, since you turned away from God, I'm his punisher for doing that. You get to burn for eternity now for turning away from my boss man." says the Devil to Man.

Thoughts?




posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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Maybe he's there to make God look good, and God slides him a payoff?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 


There is noc #ing Devil..oh my God!



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 


Here's something to ponder. If the KKK never existed would we look at black people the same way we do today?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 


I believe Metatron to be more powerful than lucifer who is over Satan( the devil).


The Talmud relates that Elisha ben Abuyah (a rabbi and Jewish religious authority born in Jerusalem sometime before 70 CE), also called Acher, (אחר, "other", as he became an apostate), entered Paradise and saw Metatron sitting down (an action that is not done in the presence of God). Elishah ben Abuyah therefore looked to Metatron as a deity and said heretically, "There are indeed two powers in heaven!"The rabbis explain that Metatron was allowed to sit because of his function as the Heavenly Scribe

edit on 27-4-2012 by proob4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 


I cannot say because I have never (and will probably never) read the book that deals with this subject. However, it deals a lot with astrology. The "Son" refers to the solar Sun. Lucifer is the morning star, or Venus. "Satan" is distinct from Lucifer, though, some say. It may have to do simply with Venus rising, and thus people may see ITS light and worship that instead of the larger Sun, thus Lucifer is seen as the "false `God`" who is 'evil' for 'impersonating' the Sun.

Anyway, for all I know, the planets are gods, in a way that we don't understand. I have only one reason by I would consider believing that, but too doubtful to state it publicly at this time.

What I am sure of, though, is that good and evil are a necessary pair. Life and death, both, are needed. Too much life, and there would never be enough space. Death is the housekeeper who keeps life in check. Don't ever expect anything to live forever, in my opinion, because the laws of the universe require everything to die at one point, however short or long it may last. Life tends to rule at one point, then death creeps in as life exits. It can be gradual, or it can happen in an instant. I can't justify or explain why it isn't always gradual. I currently believe that we "live on" physically only through our children, by passing things on -- namely, our genes (thus traits), knowledge, bad habits, all that. If you believe people live on, then you should believe plants and everything else lives on because the universe itself is always consistent, always, no exceptions. If it seems there is an exception, there is only something that is yet to be understood to correct us. I am still trying to understand what happens after death. Perhaps we have lived our one life, passed on what we can just like plants do, and once we're gone, we rot, pass on nutrients, and that's it. I've never had encounters with the things people call "ghosts," but if I had one, I'd be more likely to believe something else happens.

Anyway, that's my belief.

Also, why don't people think that the Devil wrote the bible, and that's it's all a trick to trap them? Hmm? That would be pretty clever. Good luck christians!



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by satron
 


As I've said before, how would you ever have something "good" without something "evil" to which to compare it?

You must have both, and "evil" thus is what makes "good" "good." You had better thank all the "bad" in the world for every bit of "good" you see. That's right, be thankful for the "horrible" people because without them, we would not be the "nice" ones.

You feel "smart"? Thank all the "dumb" people.

Polar opposites are always required, otherwise neither can exist.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:16 AM
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reply to post by daynight42
 


I had to star that post. I must say that was a good read and 99% of it I agree with. The universe is full of balancing acts that keeps things in check. An example would be how intelligently retarded Albert Einstein was. Need I say more?
edit on 27-4-2012 by Manunnaki because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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God is not the author of sin.


Originally posted by proob4
reply to post by sarra1833
 


I believe Metatron to be more powerful than lucifer who is over Satan( the devil).


Metatron? Sounds like some evil robot villain in some 70's cartoon show, lol... What will you guys believe next?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by netgamer7k
 


I believe there is uneducated people in this world that use insult's to hide their ignorance ;-)
It's Metatron not Megatron.
edit on 27-4-2012 by proob4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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we are all part of God, supreme existence

Satan is just in deeep arrogant denial.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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First, a little about Satan below; there's a bunch of misconceptions about Satan out there:

Satan is not the counterpart of God - God has no counterpart. If anyone, Satan is the counterpart of Michael, who seems to be the chief angel opposite of this chief of fallen angels.

Our battle with Satan and his demons is spiritual, fought on the battleground of truth and deception, of fear and faith (Ephesians 6:12).

Satan does have access to heaven (until Rev. 12:8), where he accuses God’s people before the throne (Job 1:6-12, Revelation 12:10). It troubles some to think that Satan has access to heaven, because of the mistaken teaching that God can allow nothing unholy in His presence. But the Bible clearly says that that while Satan appears on earth (Luke 4:1-13), and describes him as the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2), it also says that Satan has access to heaven, where he accuses God’s people before the throne (Job 1:6-12). Today, we have (and need) an intercessor and advocate (Hebrews 7:25, and 1
John 2:1).


God will expose your sins to you first, but if you still continue to go astray, God can allow Satan to attack. Satan is on a leash, and he must ask permission from God before he do anything. God cannot protect you if you want to sin and live like the devil, but like the Bible says, He is longsuffering and patient. But he is also angry with the wicked everyday.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by proob4
 


That name is ridiculous, and will not keep anything wicked at bay.

Will Metatron cleanse you of your sins? Will he be the intercessor between you and God the Father? Is eternal life found in Metatron? Do I want to spend the rest of eternity with Metatron?

If the Word of God, if Jesus Christ, if eternal life, if Heaven and hell; if all of that is not real... then what is? What do you have?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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reply to post by netgamer7k
 


Now explain Jesus's tribulation with satan. Apply what you have just explained in your post to this situation. Was Jesus living in sin? Or does god use satan to test the authenticity of man's "goodness"?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 

god and satan are child-murderer. in the bible is the evidence:


One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” 12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by icepack
 


Don't forget about god asking Isaac to sacrifice his favorite son to see if he cared about him more then god. I may have the name wrong but that is the story!



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by sarra1833
 


Im also inclined to believe that IF satan exists... he does the will of God...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

how does the created turn against its creator?




posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by Manunnaki
 

yes, pretty extreme demand by god, to love him/her/it more than anything else.
i don't understand the whole concept, with the good, loving and merciful image on one side and the scripture about god in the old testament.
did god become a better being over the centuries ?


edit on 27-4-2012 by icepack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by netgamer7k
 



There are other religions besides Christanity in case you have not heard. Ever hear of Judaism? Maybe you should investigate what you call ridiculous before pushing your "Absurd" beliefs.
edit on 27-4-2012 by proob4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by sarra1833
the following is not based on if they exist or not. It's just a hole I found. I like finding holes in things.


Keep reading the Bible and you'll keep finding 'em. But I'm sure you know that already.


I think I remember you Sarra. You like posting things like this. If you're near Cairo Il. I used to live not too far from you near Poplar Bluff, so I gave you a star and flag for having the mindset you do while living in the part of the country you do.

Your premise is good but maybe needs a little work? A diamond in the rough maybe? You're on the right track by questioning the roles of good and evil that the authors of that book want you to believe. The first thing you might want to do is get out of the Bible when thinking about things like this and stop calling them God and Satan. You're just painting yourself into a corner by doing that with paint that TPTB provided. I just use the terms Good and Evil instead. Thinking about things from a different angle makes it easier to get out of that religious box.

I believe that good and evil are what is inside us and what drives everyone to do what they do. I believe that we control them though, not the other way around like the Bible would want you to believe. It's kind of like a car. When you're behind the wheel doing 80 on a long, flat stretch you realize how much power the thing has. But you also remember who's in control when you star applying the brakes. Regardless of how much power the car has, it's useless without a driver. When you start to believe that you're being controlled by these forces, that's when you are. That's when you believe that God and Satan are "working" to get our souls and that we don't have much say in the matter. This is where worship comes in at. Once you "believe" in either of these entities then you're supposed to worship them. Wrong train of thought there.

I don't worship good or evil. I use them to get what I need to make my life better. I understand that these are very powerful forces. But I also understand that they're powerless without ME guiding THEM to do what I want. I do my best to do good things everyday because I believe that what comes around goes around. Sometimes though you have to do things that are considered bad. That's just the life we live in but that doesn't mean you have to walk around with a bad attitude and a bad disposition. Most importantly though it doesn't mean that you're a bad person and you're going to hell when you die. I don't believe that a person should be threatened like that into believing they should do good things. That whole concept sees silly to me. Looking at things this way gives me the view that Satan isn't working for God or the other way around. If they want my soul they're going to have to work for it. THEY work for ME. Period.

I like the way you think...............Sarra..................and I can tell you're still kinda new to this God and Devil thing, so I just thought I'd give you a ride in the direction I'm going to see if you like the view. (I know I do) You may or may not, but at least you're getting the opportunity to see things a little differently and there's never anything wrong with that.




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