It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Amadeus
l. �You will NOT make unto me any Molten Idos� as part of the so-called Ten Commandments of the socalled Torah placed into the mouth of YHWH the clan god of Israel.
Then in Numbers 21:5 it says, �YHWH said to Moses, Make thee a Bronze Serpent Idol and Place it on a Pole�� sounds pretty idolatrous to me
Originally posted by AeroQuake when god Clearly States that man was born with a Free Will So they can say that they were "Born Gay" but they're wrong.
that is too simplistic,First urine secretions don't normally contain any bacteria, Indeed the waste water is sterile & free of bacteria, viruses, and fungi.
urinating on open cut wounds has been practiced as a form of "Bush Medicine" for thousands of years, The A-nus & Va-gina are 2 types of bacterial locations with many incompatable bacterias & antibactiral antibodies which don't naturally cross over.
Again that is far too simplistic, The vagina secretes its own lubrication, whereas the anus and rectum do not. The tissues in this area are particularly delicate and susceptible to tearing,there is also the risk that the Pe-nis may collide with the sigmoid colon, the lining of which is not much stronger than a wet paper tissue or towel, and trauma can result in internal bleeding with potentially fatal results therefore, artificial lubrication is highly recommended for anal sex .
Originally posted by Amadeus
Hey Flyers Fan:
OK...If you really DON'Tt believe what you said in your quote below-- then apologies for jumping all over you.... It certainly seemed to me when I read those words at the time that the above sentiments were actually coming from you that you actually "believed them to be true": but this is not the case?
Originally posted by FlyersFan
So ... if someone is a Christian who says they believe the bible
completely. And they say that homosexuality is a sin because the
bible says so ... then by God they had better not be masterbating or
having sex without making the purpose of making babies or they are
themselves in danger of hellfire. If they use the bible as a standard
to show homosexuality is a sin punishable by death and hell, then
they themselves have to stand up to the same standards and look
at what the bible says about THEIR sexuality. No masterbation.
No sex without fully submitting to it's procreative purposes (no
birth control!). The 'never changing God' said so.
There.
Did I word it in a perfectly clear way?
Originally posted by masterp
Still, the big question goes unanswered: why is sex a sin if all parts agree to it? they don't force anyone to anything.
Originally posted by Amadeus
All those stories about David and Jonathan for example----as it states quite clearly in I Samuel 20:30 ... And also the Love Poetry from David to Jonathan after the latter was killed on Mt Gilboa: 2 Samuel 1:30
This has been answered. Sin, according to the Christian religion,
is the breaking of God's law. It doesn't matter if it appears that
no one is hurt or that everyone agrees to it.
Originally posted by Amadeus
Hi, Peace Be With You:
You've raised a good point in your last: that the so-called "holy texts" were written in ancient languages that are not spoken any more (Modern Hebrew for example is NOT Paleo Hebrew) and that these ancient "words" have "connotations" which are lost to 21st century audiences, and wholly mis-represented and mis-construed by religious authorities in order to bring their "own slant" to these texts...
As many of you know already, the "Hebrew bible" has no word for "gay" or "homosexual" in the purely modern sense: the Hebrew scriptures (the socalled "Books of the Old Testament") do however have a cultic-technical Levetical word for "Male cult Sodomite Prostitute" however : the ancient Canaanite word "Qedash" (related to "Qadosh" : holy one, and "Qaddish" ("holy" prayer for the dead") etc. where during ancient Canaanite Fertility Rites of the Spring (e.g. Pesach, the socalled Limping Festival, which the Hebrew Israelites borrowed), "holy cult male prostitute seed" had to be squirted on the altar to produce fecundity of crops and cattle.
But all of this was exoressed in very technical cult language in the Old Testament Hebrew (not moral language at all), and "male cult prostitution" was later violently reacted against by the post-Exilic (i.e. after 430 BC) Torah re-writers in the book of Leveticus in the so-called Holiness Code dating from the time of Ezra, when the hardline Yahwists "came back to take over the government" under Pesian supervision, of course.
How many male cultic prostitutes do we have on Canaanite altars today out here in the West?
So how can any reference to "the toqebah "("Abomnation") of lying sexually male to male (Lev. 18) have any relevance at all in the 21st century in the West, with its grossly overpopulated cities and abortion clinics?
Turning to "the bible" for moral guidance on this issue will get you nowhere at all.
In fact most ancient peoples did not have a non-cultic "moral word" for "gay" or "homosexual" in the technical modern sense: these specific terms today are fairly late constructs of our language out here in the West.
The idea that a man or woman can enjoy sexual expression with either gender is called "Bi sexuality" and was a particular topic of interest to Sigmund Freud and something he addressed many times in his patchy career (he published papers under the heading "Theory of Bi-Sexuality" in the early 1900s) and something he understood to be a "biological mandate": according to Freud (for what it is worth, since many eminent modern sexual "theorists" flatly reject Freud's sometimes bizzare "Oedipal" conclusions nowadays !) "all adult human males are potentially (and naturally) "BiSexual Creatures", and that only "the pressures of Society" (in the form of peer pressure, laws, religious taboos etc.) push adult males into "hetero-sexual" roles.
In other words, if left to their own devices, most unhibited adult human males would choose have free sexual intercourse with both males and females almost indescriminately (alla ancient Athens), though each for possibly for different reasons--as in fact did the ancient Athenians---something that most people in the West do NOT wish to discuss openly or in the schools--or even bring up in socalled scholarly circles (even though they have no trouble at all touting ideas taken from the Athenian Greek idea of "Democracy" , for some reason !!).
Freud aside, it is clear from observation of Nature, that she herself (if you actually take the time to study it raw) does NOT know of "homosexuality" or "heterosexuality" as labels: it only knows SEXUALITY.
Taboos are "moral codes" made up by men and women for "the good of society" and sexual mores are generally geared with a single end result in mind: viz. "produce more sons !! "
I blame most of the gross, pent up sexual frustration tha has plagued "western" societies, especially in America, (with all of its disastrous results) on the inhibited and outdated sexual and moral Weltanschauung of "the bible" and religious taboos in general, along with all the dis-information of parents, the churches, the mosques, the synagogues etc. --especially with regard to the complexities of sexual interaction which are oversimplified for the masses.
If you take the time to read "the bible" closely, you might be surprised to find certain shall we say "items" that Jews and Christians want just to go away... e.g.
All those stories about David and Jonathan for example----as it states quite clearly in I Samuel 20:30 ("Thou son of a Perverse and Rebellious Female: Don't you know that you have "chosen to marry" the son of Jesse to the Confusion of your own mother's nakedness---and to your own Confusion? If you persist, how will your Kingdom be Established??!!")
And also the Love Poetry from David to Jonathan after the latter was killed on Mt Gilboa: 2 Samuel 1:30 ff: "Jonathan, Jonathan ! Thy Love to me was Full of Wonder--Yea, Far Surpaassing That of Any Woman !!") etc.
Notice the kind of language being used in these stories: David and Jonathan clearly were doing more than "just holding hands and exchanging armour and underwear"--- but "Christians" and "Jews" don't want to talk about it: period.
They'd rather give "their heterosexual congregations" the understanding that David can freely murder people like Uriah so he can ("heterosexually" )bang the Jebusite Princess Bath-Sheba to produce illegitimate children--- and still have David be portrayed as "a man after my own Heart, saith YHWH"...!!!
In other words, I'd be very careful about turning to the morally confused and jlegally umbled texts of "the bible" for moral guidance if I were any of you: you won't find anything helpful in a book which has virtually no relevance today for the modern west.
Unless you REALLY want to go out and exterminate the Amalekites...and "leave noting breathing" as the clan-god of Israel orders people to do in the Torah (Deut chapter 20, and Deut chapter 13 for examaple)
Some "divine morality" in that book !!!