YPF Repsol: Spain warns Argentina of strong response

YPF Repsol: Spain warns Argentina of strong response

www.bbc.co.uk

The Spanish government has warned it will defend its interests as a row with Argentina over the nationalisation of oil company YPF intensifies.

Promising a "clear and overwhelming" response, the government summoned the Argentine ambassador to Madrid to express its concern.

The majority stake in YPF is owned by Spanish oil firm Repsol.

"These acts will not remain unpunished," Repsol executive chairman Antonio Brufau told reporters.v

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Wonder what actions Spain is considering taking against Argentina? Well here is one salient example of two countries coming to lock heads over resources as their countries face deteriorating economic conditions. I understand Argentina has some problems again too. Many would be aware of what pain Spain is currently enduring with almost 25 per cent unemployed, a growing deficit and surging bond yields. Hostilities against countries is likely to escalate as global economic conditions deteriorate, as well as social conditions. Apparently these measures are going to be announced in the next few days. Some additional links are provided.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by surrealist


I think it goes beyond resources. If the US were to nationalize industries the affected companies, and the nations those companies are from, would have a collective cow.

Nothing like attracting foreign investment to help develop resources bases to only then move in and kick the company who invested a crap ton of money to the curb with no compensation.

We can certainly see Chinese influence in South America with that tactic. Its one China has been using for a long time now. Attract foreign investment / development. Pair the foreign company up with a local Chinese company (per Chinese law), allow the foreign company to pay for and do all the hard work, and then make it almost impossible for the foreign company to remain due to diminished profits.

The foreign company is forced out, the paired up Chinese company assumes control and viola...

Is Argentina determined to piss off as many people as they can?

What is with them, seriously.. First they bang the drum about the Falklands (not the Malvina's and certainly not the Maldives like Obama called them...What a prat, that's a double insult from the US President right there..) and now they are threatening to nationalise a Spanish firm who, as has been said, have pumped a huge investment into the country only to see it ripped away.

If the Argentines desire economic prosperity, this is not the way to go about it. Either they will scare off any other investors or end up being China's bitch, which is far worse than being anyone elses in my opinion...

Isn't Argentina also in the news just recently here regarding the Falkland Islands? What are they? Insane? I can see them picking one fight or the other if they feel so strongly about things, but both at the same time?

Okay.... England is going to be hard pressed to really resist things if Argentina wants their Island back...or whatever. It's 300 miles off their coast and 7,600 miles off England's. Whatever... England probably will fight for it though. Who'll win? Hmm... That will be interesting to watch.....

THEN.... Oh.. Who thought THIS was a good idea?? They go and start poking Spain as well? If it becomes a Europe vs. Argentina thing instead of just an England Vs. Argentina thing......Argentina goes from having a fair 50/50 shot of getting what they want to being the guest of a stomping party. The guest of honor in fact.

Someone needs to remind Argentina...they are far away and that creates problems. It gives them some safety to be jerks... However, they aren't THAT far away if they annoy TOO many nations... Ask a few other nations about that sort of thing in recent years..Indeed.

I think if you look at the overall situation, Argentina is getting shafted. Again.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Okay.... England is going to be hard pressed to really resist things if Argentina wants their Island back...or whatever. It's 300 miles off their coast and 7,600 miles off England's. Whatever... England probably will fight for it though. Who'll win? Hmm... That will be interesting to watch.....

First off, it's the UK, not England. Just a friendly reminder

Secondly, Argentina has no chance of taking the islands, they are in a worse state militarily than '82 and we are stronger. Add to that the Type 45 Destroyer, the Astute class sub, the flight of Typhoons and the battalion stationed in Stanley. What have they got? They are relying on diplomatic pressure and have even got Obama whistling their tune, whether he knows it or not.

Anyhoo...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
THEN.... Oh.. Who thought THIS was a good idea?? They go and start poking Spain as well? If it becomes a Europe vs. Argentina thing instead of just an England Vs. Argentina thing......Argentina goes from having a fair 50/50 shot of getting what they want to being the guest of a stomping party. The guest of honor in fact.

They are going from a less than 1/99 chance (they stand no chance of physically taking the islands) of getting what they want to bugger all. This move will damage their credibility to international investors for years...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Someone needs to remind Argentina...they are far away and that creates problems. It gives them some safety to be jerks... However, they aren't THAT far away if they annoy TOO many nations... Ask a few other nations about that sort of thing in recent years..Indeed.

All the UK has to do is veto the next round of the IMF loans... That'll bone them. But we are holding back, presumably because we are trying to take the moral high ground. The US, oddly enough, is actually pushing real hard to use the IMF to bring them into line, despite Obama calling the islands the Maldives, when he was trying to say the Malvina's (which is the insult I was referring to earlier)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


UK would win. Very easily, like last night. Actually, far easier as we have been on war footing for over a decade now and have far better tech.

But that is pointless because i really cannot see war with Argentina again.

Obama is also gunning for Argentina after the financial default several years ago. They still owe the Paris club over $40 billion and Obama is seeking no further funds for Argentina until agreement has been reached over repayment (of which none has been received).

Interestingly enough, Barclays (UK Bank) are behind negotiations on behalf of Argentina - so all UK-Argentine sabre rattling should be taken with a huge dollop of salt.

As I recall back in the heydays of privatization, about 1992, the Spanish national phone company teamed with a Scandinavian company and got a 70 year exclusive on the Argentine phone system which had been both a disaster (2 year wait for a new line) and comical joke (you could barely see the sky for all the private lines). They invested heavily and put in an ultra modern system

A current trend to nationalize is just history repeating itself. Under Juan Peron much was nationalized, including railroads and banking with the Brits taking a real financial bath.

Did not Mexico nationalize their oil in the late 30's sticking it to American oil companies.

Venezuela did the same much later but at least paid back the companies over time.

Originally posted by stumason
Is Argentina determined to piss off as many people as they can?

What is with them, seriously.. First they bang the drum about the Falklands (not the Malvina's and certainly not the Maldives like Obama called them...What a prat, that's a double insult from the US President right there..) and now they are threatening to nationalise a Spanish firm who, as has been said, have pumped a huge investment into the country only to see it ripped away.

If the Argentines desire economic prosperity, this is not the way to go about it. Either they will scare off any other investors or end up being China's bitch, which is far worse than being anyone elses in my opinion...

It certainly looks that way,it appears that they are trying to deflect attention away from the domestic problems they have,but P*ssing off the UK and now Spain will only end very badly for them,some people never learn though.

You may think this is only a circus to deflect attention but the truth of the matter is that this action was made because YPF and Repsol has failed for many years now in making any sort of investment. Gas price was on the roof and at least for two years now it has become very common to see eternal lines on the gas stations waiting maybe an hour to try to get some for their cars, because YPF failed to produce it. On the other hand power has also been a problem for a while, particularely in these two couple of years in which it became normal to have blackouts in different parts of the country.

Repsol partially lies when talking about their investment. It was probably true when they took the power back in the '90s but anyone living here knows that they stopped investing here a long time ago and the service they were providing was worst by the minute. Let's also mention that the profit they took was not even sent to Spain in trying to help their own economical problems. Pretty much the whole Spanish people are agreeing they couldn't care less for Repsol and are praising Argentina's government to stand up against them. Let's not forget that deep down inside this is a conflict between companies, not people.

reply to post by Radiobuzz


Good point and one i had not explored properly.

Still think it is all smoke screen and mirrors though, by all parties involved.

It's their country they can do as they please. If a private company is mad that they put money into the investment, let them sue the country. Resources should be freaking nationalized and protected against foreign profit parasites. Those resources belong to the people in their respective country for christs sake.

More deflection tactics from Kirchner.

She seems intent on alienating Argentina from everyone outside of South America.

The only people who are suffering from her policies are ordinary, everyday Argentinians whilst she tries to enhance her personal reputation on the international stage and stir up Argentinian emotions to deflect from her domestic failings.

Spain should get real and put its military into South America. The moment Spain let its posessions go their own way it was bound to lose long term control over resources. Best bet for Spain is to take back the meddling Argentina and put boots on the ground in Beunos aires. Britain would probably lend them behind the scenes assistance. You can't control your foreign economic resources without having men in uniform and foreign bases scattered around the world - USA proves the point

Ouch.... I can honestly say I am starting to understand the sheer awe people stand in at the confidence Americans project when we speak of virtually every other nation on the planet as ones we could and would defeat with little trouble. I didn't say that confidence is a nice thing to see...in fact, it takes seeing it from this perspective and one an American rarely DOES see, to understand why it infuriates people so badly when we do it.

I can't say I'm any more amused by it as an American listening to British than the rest of the world is liistening to Americans this way. Now... just to get back into the real world where the U.S. and the U.K. do not have super secret wonder weapons to smite whole nations with a single glance......

www.globalfirepower.com...

By punching in United Kingdom and Argentina, I see an interesting lay of the land for military forces. I'm rather surprised, actually. I didn't realize the U.K. had become THAT weak. Sorry guys.. I don't know how to say it. The UK obviously over-runs Argentina with little trouble in sheer math...IF Argentina were where Ireland is. That is to say, if ALL of the UK force could be brought into the fight, then it would be a short fight.

As it is though....The UK has solid and ongoing combat obligations for some of those forces..and hey, they need SOMETHING to stay around Jolly 'ol England in case the home fires start burning out of control or something.... So unlike the 1980's where I dimly recall videos of Naval convoys all headed South with the Union Jack leading the way.......The UK is as much a shadow of a greater time as WE are.

Be careful that London doesn't start writing checks it cannot back up........as the United States has already done repeatedly. Neither of our nations or 'empires' is what it used to be..or even what it was 10 years ago. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT Argentina is soundly defeated quite as easily as some would like to imagine. THEY learned since the last one, too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


HMS Dauntless alone eliminates both the Argentinian air and sea threats.

The Vanguard and Astute submarines pose a threat well above anything Argentina could ever dream of.

There is a permanent garrison on The Falklands and four Typhoons are also stationed there.

In addition a full squadron of Typhoons could be deployed to The Falklands within 24hours.

But it's all irrelevant, there will be no military confrontation between the two countries in the foreseeable future.
It's all political rhetoric.

And I thought this thread was about Argentinian and Spanish relations?

Looks like Spain has fingered out a way to solve its 25% unemployment rate... a war. What an odd, covetous species we are.

Derek

reply to post by Freeborn


One ship? Okay.... This is funny because I just can't come up with another reaction that isn't totally over the top of offensive. I really love the Texas saying "One Riot, One Ranger." It even has historical basis for having happened that way to spawn the saying and legends.

One Ship, One War...doesn't quite have the same ring to it and I'm sorry, but if the United Kingdom has become so unbelievabvly arrogant as to believe that ONE SHIP is sufficient to go fight an entire nation with a very capable military of their own, then the British People need to reign in that Government. (Oh...and Argentina isn't ALONE these days...South American nations work together and US/UK is NOT their idea of allied presence)


How about I sit here and say that with the U.S.S. George H.W. Bush, we can easily take and stomp the United Kingdom? Don't get offended.... Punch in United States vs. United Kingdom to the same military forces inventory site I listed above. The "un-fair match-up' for forces and sheer raw POWER is about the same in compared the U.S. to the UK and the UK to Argentina.

So.... Given that the UK is as trivial to US as Argentina is to the UK..can we just send ONE ship and take the British Home Islands? Yeah... It sounds patently offensive as well as delusional when it's said that way, doesn't it? We'd need at least TWO carriers. You're right. We'd better task the Enterprise as well. We needn't bother any more CAPABLE ships than than, of course... After all, we so badly outgun England as to make it a turkey shoot.



Yeah... It's downright insulting and outright offensive...when put that way. ...and I am sure Argentina is no less offended or anxious to put that one to the test and prove just who can stomp who when England is bringing their toys on a 7,700 mile logistics train. I lay 50/50 odds...and only give THAT good because I know the English fight like hell and won't give up.

Originally posted by stumason
Is Argentina determined to piss off as many people as they can?

They are on a competition with the US foreign policy