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YPF Repsol: Spain warns Argentina of strong response

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Dude, in '82 our Navy was on the verge of being mothballed almost to the point of non-existence, which is precisely why the Argentines felt we couldn't defend the islands.

We had to drag a 1950's aircraft carrier out of mothball (refit en route), use cruise liners as troop transports and the destroyers/frigates deployed to protect the Task Force all lacked CIWS so were, in essence, quite useless against Argentine missile attacks.

On top of that, the ship carrying the helo's was sunk, meaning the guys had to get out and walk! We actually came close to getting slapped back to Blighty...

Today though, we have 2 Helo carriers in service, a few assault ships which can also carry helo's, the worlds most advanced air defence destroyers, the worlds most advanced submarine and have 2 new carriers on the way (albeit they won't have a air group for a while).

You might think it arrogant of me to claim the T45 and Astute as the "most advanced",only the US could produce anything of a similiar level, but you canned your Seawolfs for the cheaper (and crappier) Virginia's which have stuff in them we used in the Swiftsure class, such as the engines, which we mothballed in the 90's. As for the T45, only your Aegis can touch them, but they have been knocking around for a while now...

Argentina, well, they have nothing. The few ships they have in their Navy are pretty much of the same class we used against them in '82 and are as obsolete as hell. They have no amphibious lift capacity to get troops to the islands (even if they did, the sub would prevent them landing), pretty much zero air lift capacity (even if they did, the flight of typhoons and the T45 would prevent an air drop) and an airforce that is utterly outclassed.

There will be no military conflict over the islands simply because they know it would be so one sided as to be a total embarrassment and also kill off any possibility of ever getting the islands back, although '82 has actually done that anyway.




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I didn't say we could invade the Argentinian mainland, we could easily repel and prevent any Argentinian invasion of The Falklands.

And Argentina are doing a good job of pissing everyone off at present, even their South American neighbours....it seems as if their only real friend and ally is Chavez.

The Argentinian military is really in a sad and depleted way and is incapable of mounting any serious offensive.

But again I ask......what has this got to do with Argentinian - Spanish relations?

There are plenty of Falklands related threads here on ATS, some very recent - why not post your comments there instead of derailing this thread?
edit on 17/4/12 by Freeborn because: Deleted a section as irrelevant and could be provocative and no intention to provoke.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
One Ship, One War...doesn't quite have the same ring to it and I'm sorry, but if the United Kingdom has become so unbelievabvly arrogant as to believe that ONE SHIP is sufficient to go fight an entire nation with a very capable military of their own, then the British People need to reign in that Government. (Oh...and Argentina isn't ALONE these days...South American nations work together and US/UK is NOT their idea of allied presence)


Argentina does not have a "very capable military" whatsoever. They have been run into the ground for years, are chronically underfunded and in a far worse state than '82. The T45 could eliminate any air threat, with the Typhoons and local SAM's on station, while the Astute would pick off any naval task force.

I suggest you stop looking at plain numbers and look at capability. Even if every SA nation joined in the Argentina, their combined naval strength is still less than the UK! And their ships are ancient.


Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
How about I sit here and say that with the U.S.S. George H.W. Bush, we can easily take and stomp the United Kingdom? Don't get offended.... Punch in United States vs. United Kingdom to the same military forces inventory site I listed above. The "un-fair match-up' for forces and sheer raw POWER is about the same in compared the U.S. to the UK and the UK to Argentina.


Give us one of your carrier battle groups and you will be sent back to the colonies, but if you used all dozen or so, then we would become the 51st state. Simple case of numbers. However, your tech and ours is pretty much like for like, so that is the only advantage you have. THere is a plus side to BAe having lots of fingers in all your pies



Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
So.... Given that the UK is as trivial to US as Argentina is to the UK..can we just send ONE ship and take the British Home Islands?
Yeah... It sounds patently offensive as well as delusional when it's said that way, doesn't it? We'd need at least TWO carriers. You're right. We'd better task the Enterprise as well. We needn't bother any more CAPABLE ships than than, of course... After all, we so badly outgun England as to make it a turkey shoot.


You're comparing apples and oranges and also making a ridiculous assumption that your carrier wouldn't be inspecting the North Atlantic ridge quite close up. Two carriers, on their own, would be breakfast. Send carrier groupsand you might have a point, but then that is more than the 1-2 ship nonsense your trying to push.



Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Yeah... It's downright insulting and outright offensive...when put that way. ...and I am sure Argentina is no less offended or anxious to put that one to the test and prove just who can stomp who when England is bringing their toys on a 7,700 mile logistics train. I lay 50/50 odds...and only give THAT good because I know the English fight like hell and won't give up.


You are displaying a chronic and almost fatal level of ignorance. Look up what we did in '82 with a much less capable fleet than we have today. Logistics is not an issue for us, for starters we have a chain of islands all along the Atlantic and secondly, the RFA has more than enough ships to sustain a prolonged naval operation.

You seem to be interested in mere numbers or ignoring what we're actually good at at what the Argentines aren't. If they couldn't manage it in '82 with the decent military they had at the time, there is no way in hell they can manage it now.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 

Well, actually.. If one were to read the first post I made, I had no intention of going off in a direction of the Falkland Islands and the next coming war over them. I'd simply been observing that in making enemies of Spain (topical, indeed) at this particular moment in time by pulling a nationalization plan to follow Chavez in Venezuela and Morales in Bolivia, that it is making an enemy of not only the United Kingdom...which is kind of a given...but ALSO now looking to make enemies of the entire European Mainland. I mean really..If Spain is screwed in such a way on the eve of their need for bailouts and support to stave off total collapse....I think Europe would look toward who helped with the final push for a nation like Spain.

I hadn't brought up the idea that the British could leap vast oceans with a single bound and just outright stomp the military of a nation across the planet upon arrival.all without spilling their cup of tea, to hear it said. That took others. All I've really noted beyond that is how incredibly OVER THE TOP arrogant that comes off...and how it helps me now understand just how Ugly Americans look when doing the same.


Sorry..if someone figures I derailed something. It took the replies to push a side comment into a full blown side topic that was never intended or desired.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


All though there is much that is unique about us we also share some triats.

Argentina poses no military threat to the UK and the vast majority of Brits, Falkland Islanders and Argentinians have no desire to see another military confrontation.
The biggest hinderance to a peaceful settlement seems to be Kirchner and her thirst for international recognition at the expense of her nations well being.

And this seems to be yet another example of just that.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 

Well, Fair enough then if the local residents on both sides have no interest in seeing this happen. Hopefully that will be enough. Thats a funny thing about Central and South American nations as I've observed over the years. What a national leader wants may not matter as much as what the people want...if the people and the military share sympathy. If the Military doesn't have the interest in a fight the nation itself has no real gain from..well, hopefully the whole thing never happens.

I fear we're all going to see enough war and fighting to last us all a lifetime soon enough. I'm sure not rooting to see more, elsewhere. Here is a sincere hope for peace.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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edit on 18-4-2012 by ototheb85 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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Okey dokey, just been reading an interesting article regarding this in the Guardian. Whilst full of the usual apologist rubbish they so adore in that paper, it also contains some very interesting information regarding this and Argentina's current economic position.

If true, it would appear that Argentina is far healthier than we are led to believe. In fact, if true, i would go further and say i apologise to any Argentine's i may have antagonised on here on recent discussions.

Anyhow, here is the link

Enjoy!

edit on 18-4-2012 by Flavian because: sentence was gibberish (which i am fluent in)

edit on 18-4-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 06:53 AM
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nationalization is stealing!!! Also Argentina should understand that economic crisis happens due to govt mismanagement not private sector.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


also we have codes for trident missiles.So Britain cannot use without our permission and cannot launch them against us.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


also we have codes for trident missiles.So Britain cannot use without our permission and cannot launch them against us.


Yes, this used to be true.......decades ago.

Modern systems do not rely on US permission, thank you very much.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by ludwigvonmises003
 




also we have codes for trident missiles.So Britain cannot use without our permission and cannot launch them against us.


No 'you' don't.

This has been explained to you time and time again but you choose to ignore the truth just so that you can post your downright lies hoping to influence the less informed.

Maybe once over and most definately not now.

And we aren't going to use them on anyone, not now, not in the foreseeable future and hopefully not ever.



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