Are geoengineering deniers acting immorally?

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posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 





First of all this thread is about geoengineering, not chemtrails. Chemtrails is the term those who want to avoid addressing geoengineering use to make people sound crazy.


Aren't chemtrails supposed to be part of Geoengineering or am I missing something here?


Imagine our surprise when we discovered extensive proof of government involvement, funding, sponsorship, multidisciplinary research, policy making and implementation of global atmospheric modification under the classification of 'Geoengineering.' This is the chemtrail smoking gun we have been looking for.


www.lightwatcher.com...

And here is the title to the article I reference to above...


The Chemtrail Smoking Gun
Proof of global atmospheric geoengineering
by: Bruce Conway


www.lightwatcher.com...

So you say chemtrails are a term so people use instead of addressing Geoengineering?

Are you sure about that?




posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 





For a non dis-info guy, you sure use some slick techniques there.


Thank you,but in reality it is called research.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
So you say chemtrails are a term so people use instead of addressing Geoengineering?
Are you sure about that?


Yes he is sure about that.

using the term "Chemtrails" here at ATS invokes a certain anticipated response from a certain type of people... almost like Pavlovian conditioning. In fact I could swear they have a robot trigger set for that term to notify them


Also research using the term "Chemtrails" gets you mostly conspiracy websites with opinions as opposed to actual data when you use the term "Geoenginneering"

See the difference?




I am willing to bet if the title used was "Are chemtrail deniers acting immorally?" this thread would already be at page 46


edit on 14-4-2012 by zorgon because: Gremlins did it :shk:



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 





See the difference?


I see what your saying, but to actually say chemtrails aren't considered part of Geoengineering is not totally correct which is what I was trying to show the OP.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 





I am willing to bet if the title used was "Are chemtrail deniers acting immorally?" this thread would already be at page 46


Can't argue with you on that one.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Zorgon answered you already more eloquently than i probably could have.

when i came to ats I thought chemtrails were bunk. I had researched them briefly and then dismissed it.

burntheships had a thread and invited me to study geoengimeering and i found substance.

chemtrauls is a rabbit trail which keeps people from seeing the real danger - geoengineering.
edit on 14-4-2012 by pianopraze because: typo



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by FissionSurplus
 



Chemtrail deniers are acting immorally only when they know it's true but they are paid to get online and tell people they're crazy, paranoid liars.


Could you possibly point me in the direction of those you say are paying the chemtrail deniers, because someone owes me an explanation as to where my paycheck has been since I have yet to see it.

Do you honestly believe what your saying?


It could be that you're missing a paycheck because you are choosing to remain in the dark until you hear from a declared "leader" admitting it. I've reviewed the evidence, then compared things using my own two eyes and have decided that I don't need a figure head announce it or any other "VIP" on the global plane for that matter to admit that they're tinkering.

I'm not just talking about manufacturing clouds alone to manipulate the climate. I'm going to make a bold statement and proclaim that fracking should be placed under the geo-engineering umbrella. Do they actually know what they're doing? Seriously. Just look at how they've handled crude oil. We're supposed to trust them with fracking fluid? Duh... OK, George. Just another earthquake. Nothing to worry about. Here's some more money so we can drill on your property. Oh, and don't forget to call your doctor if you start feeling ill and/or your pets and livestock keel over. Now, just sign here. You do have fire insurance, don't you? By the way, you may want to start drinking only bottled water as soon as the well's in.

Just look at the cloud seeding activities, we already know that this has been declared geoengineering just recently by the Royal Society.
royalsociety.org...

In September 2009, the Royal Society published its seminal report Geoengineering the climate: science, governance and uncertainty, describing this emerging field.


Not only this, but it's been on the mind's of men for much longer than we're led to believe. This type of science was in its infant stages in the early 1900s.

The history of geoengineering actually pre-dates much of the science fiction literature on terraforming. The Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius ForMemRS (1859–1927), who first recognised the important link between carbon dioxide (CO2) and the ‘greenhouse effect’, considered the climatic implications of industrial activities and the burning of coal. He wondered whether coal burning should be increased in order to enhance greenhouse warming, considering it beneficial because of the harsh Swedish winters.


People need to wake up and re-learn to trust their natural senses and gut instincts about this because its not just science fiction anymore. Really look at the information in front of you. Can you honestly say for sure that you can't believe that geo-engineering is not going on in one form or another? Do you have enough insurance to cover this bet in case you're wrong?
edit on 14-4-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Piano,

Its really time this subject was addressed, thank you for bringing the topic to ATS!

First of all, the subject is so controversial, usually the deniers come out in droves
to deny deny that the possibility exists that geoengineering has even been tested.

The mere suggestion that there have been field trials is enough to whip most deniers
into a disturbance, frothing at the mouth. In fact, for the longest time it took pages
of the usual "tactics" just to be able to post worthwhile research, by then the thread
was littered with half truths, and outright lies.

So, yes I would say that alone leaves the "deniers" with a lot of explaining to do.

Certainly, they still enjoy the rather blurry conspiracy world when the term "chemtrails"
is used, as they can then point to many of the well known "conspiracy sites" and
call names.

I think Zorgon really summed it up well here:


Originally posted by zorgon

using the term "Chemtrails" here at ATS invokes a certain anticipated response from a certain type of people... almost like Pavlovian conditioning. In fact I could swear they have a robot trigger set for that term to notify them


Also research using the term "Chemtrails" gets you mostly conspiracy websites with opinions as opposed to actual data when you use the term "Geoenginneering"



He is right there on both accounts, and especially the latter point, that if we go searching
for data using the "chemtrail" term, we find the playground they enjoyed for so long....

...So much so

....I have wondered many times if they did not coin the term for that purpose alone.
Thats very likely, as you search for Geoengineering, it was a commonly used term before
...yes before the term "chemtrails"

So...makes you wonder huh?



I am willing to bet if the title used was "Are chemtrail deniers acting immorally?" this thread would already be at page 46


No doubt about it.

edit on 14-4-2012 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 



First of all this thread is about geoengineering, not chemtrails. Chemtrails is the term those who want to avoid addressing geoengineering use to make people sound crazy.


Then why did you post videos about chemtrails? If you expect anyone to take you seriously, using discredited chemtrail sources is the worst thing to do. Also, who are these "Geoengineering Deniers" you speak of? There are many on this board that have attempted to explain what contrails are, but no-one here has ever denied that there are proposals for ameliorating global warming. In fact, the general consensus here is that geoengineering is not a good idea. This leads to the question: "Are Chemtrailers who create Strawmen immoral?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 





It could be that you're missing a paycheck because you are choosing to remain in the dark until you hear from a declared "leader" admitting it.


Well you got me.


I am just waiting for my supreme leader to let me know when I can tell the whole world I am a paid gov't spy here on ATS. Are you actually believing what you say?


I find it funny how when one has a different view than what you have they automatically are paid gov't dis info agents.

Paranoid are we?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 



Just look at the cloud seeding activities, we already know that this has been declared geoengineering just recently by the Royal Society.


Where? It's not in the article you link to.
edit on 14-4-2012 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by pianopraze
 



First of all this thread is about geoengineering, not chemtrails. Chemtrails is the term those who want to avoid addressing geoengineering use to make people sound crazy.


Then why did you post videos about chemtrails? If you expect anyone to take you seriously, using discredited chemtrail sources is the worst thing to do.


Do you expect anyone to take you seriously?



Also, who are these "Geoengineering Deniers" you speak of?

Without naming names, they have been exposed in this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



edit on 14-4-2012 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 



Without naming names, they have been exposed in this thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Could you please explain? You posted a link to a thread where someone was claiming that ordinary contrails were geoengineering.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 





Without naming names, they have been exposed in this thread. www.abovetopsecret.com...


And how precisely were they exposed in that thread?

Funny but I do recall there were a few things that were exposed both ways, or are you just seeing what you want to see?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Frankly, I don't care if you're a paid talking head or not. Why should I care how you put food on your table? That's your business.
Even if you don't believe that climate engineering is happening at this moment,
when it's announced by (a trusted official of your choosing) -- because that's the only person you'll believe, how will you feel about it? Do you think climate engineering is a positive activity? If so, what specific types of geoengineering do you think would help humanity and the Earth equally?

Just for the record, I often wonder if those who do get paid feel as though they're making a positive difference in society or more like they're getting paid to dumb down the population just so some mad scientists can play with their toys.
edit on 14-4-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 



Do you think climate engineering is a positive activity? If so, what specific types of geoengineering do you think would help humanity and the Earth equally?


Are you willing to do what is necessary to preserve the Earth's climate as it is? Can you suggest a more eco-system friendly alternative to stop global warming? I think geoengineering is an extremely bad idea, but I recognize that global warming can potentially disrupt human civilization. Is there any way to avoid choosing between the lesser of two evils?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Afterthought
 


Where? It's not in the article you link to.
edit on 14-4-2012 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)


Sorry, I got side tracked and forgot the link.
Here it is:
www.publications.parliament.uk...

24. While there was a measure of debate that some—CDR, in particular—technologies fell within the definition of geoengineering, there was greater disagreement about weather modification techniques should be included. The Action Group on Erosion, Technology and Concentration (ETC Group) considered that geoengineering should also encompass weather modification techniques such as hurricane suppression and cloud seeding.[52] Cloud seeding causes precipitation by introducing substances into cumulus clouds that cause condensation. Most seeding uses silver iodide, but dry ice (that is, solid carbon dioxide), propane, and salt are also used.[53]

25. These techniques are in use to precipitate rain and to suppress precipitation and hail.[54] Dr James Lee, from the American University, Washington DC, pointed out in his memorandum that cloud seeding was first scientifically demonstrated in 1946[55] and "is a geoengineering tool that is widely used by more than 30 countries" and that with climate change, fresh water resources will be in decline in many parts of the world and one "result may be an increase in the use of cloud seeding".[56] He cited the example of China, whose:



edit on 14-4-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 





Frankly, I don't care if you're a paid talking head or not. Why should I care how you put food on your table? That's your business.


Well then you shouldn't make comments such as this....



It could be that you're missing a paycheck because you are choosing to remain in the dark until you hear from a declared "leader" admitting it.


You do seem to know how I put food on my table, or at least you think you know.

Funny how you make two comments that contradict each other isn't it?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 



Sorry, I got side tracked and forgot the link.


You also got sidetracked and forgot to include the conclusion:


We conclude that weather techniques such as cloud seeding should not be included within the definition of geoengineering used for the purposes of activities designed to effect a change in the global climate with the aim of minimising or reversing anthropogenic climate change.


www.publications.parliament.uk...

Isn't that the opposite of what you said?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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It took me a fair amount of time to get through this very informative thread with all the videos and links.
I have nothing to add to this thread really, but I will say I fully agree with the OP on this one.
Also I will add that after reading several posts pointing out the fact it is quite obvious to anyone here that some people do not want to discuss Geo-Engineering but are quite pleased to keep bringing up the Contrail/Chemtrail word time and time again.

It is happening now and they are doing it now and have been for years, look up folks and follow the money as the worn out phrase says.

S&F
Regards, Iwinder

edit on 14-4-2012 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)





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