Are geoengineering deniers acting immorally?

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posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Geoengineering is a reality.

If it is not going on today then they are taking steps to make it happen tomorrow.


link

Even the geoengineers themselves say that it is dangerous, and may possibly result in catastrophic consequences.

There are many geoengineers describing the dangers in this video:


While those speaking against geoengineering are quoting papers from the CFR, US, UK and other governments, nation science agencies like NASA and NOAA, and major universities, high profile science magazines; the deniers most often resort to straw-man arguments like chemtrails, paranoia, and many other types of name calling...


We are bringing verifiable evidence that geoengineering is dangerous, and that if it hasn't already begun many governments are taking steps towards beginning it. And history is replete with governments doing things like this and only later admitting to it years after people have died.











What's worse, the money to start could be in the millions so it wouldn't even take a "rogue" nation... a billionaire like Gates could do this on his own... oh and guess what... he's talking about it!!!



So should they admit they've been conned, or that they are con artists themselves?

How can they sit back and not speak out while this is taking place?

And isn't the bigger issue here this is dangerous and should be stopped at all costs???


edit on 13-4-2012 by pianopraze because: ...




posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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YES hands off its all about profits and not caring about consequence.
edit on 13-4-2012 by mikeprodigy because: correction



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:02 PM
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Well, I recall watching that documentary a while back. The directors have an agenda to market the idea even if it takes lying to do it... that much is obvious. There was more than a couple of times I noticed inconsistencies in the facts, and math that was presented. I don't think these guys were that dumb not to edit and fact check, so am led to believe they think the average viewer IS that dumb not to notice it. Maybe so, maybe not.

That being said, I think it's more likely than not that geoengineering is going on. The logistics behind it are claimed by some on this site to be unfeasible. I question the motives of anyone who says such a thing. They are either not too bright, and not too intuitive/or are ignorant, else have a reason to make it seem as if it's not really possible. It certainly can be done.

So why do I think it's already going on
Easy, look at the climate data. We had a sharp increase in temperature for about thirty years, then when the chemtrail phenomena became talked about and people started noticing the trails and taking all this direct evidence of the changes taking place from year to year, the rate of increase in mean temperature started to not only plateau, but reversed and we had big oil seemingly backed by the government spouting out, "the debate is still open" and all this other nonsense.

It just fits too well into the timeline of what all has changed in the last 15 years. I think this is honestly necessary, for a variety of reasons. You can't collapse industry or rapidly change it to thwart catastrophic anthropogenic climate change without either collapsing civilization, else causing yet more harm in the long run for short-term gains.

Essentially, I think the power elite are allowing things to continue on as is, and allow the chemtrails to somewhat reduce the effects of climate change, so that we can advance our tech ASAP, and get off this rock before it becomes a bit too unstable for civilized habitat. I think there's a huge equation that think tanks went over a long time ago, and it was decided that eventually a line would be breached where the benefits outweighed the detriments, and they concluded that the public couldn't be informed, so it went on covertly as a matter of international security.

I link this into more, such as aluminum resistant GMO crops. I think some of this frankenfoods are being engineered to stay produceable in a rapidly changing terrain.

All of this may or may not be happening. I'm running mostly off of intuition on this one. I don't care for debating any of this. Feel free to go point by point and make me look insane or what have you. It's your time you're wasting, or maybe not...and some of you are actually getting paid to spread disinfo. Whatever. If this post makes sense to some other people, so be it. Same goes to if I'm the only one who thinks this may be the case. Okay.
edit on 13-4-2012 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
So why do I think it's already going on
Easy, look at the climate data. We had a sharp increase in temperature for about thirty years, then when the chemtrail phenomena became talked about and people started noticing the trails and taking all this direct evidence of the changes taking place from year to year, the rate of increase in mean temperature started to not only plateau, but reversed and we had big oil seemingly backed by the government spouting out, "the debate is still open" and all this other nonsense.


Here is NOAA backing up what your saying:

NOAA study: Increase in particles high in Earth’s atmosphere has offset some recent climate warming

A recent increase in the abundance of particles high in the atmosphere has offset about a third of the current climate warming influence of carbon dioxide (CO2) change during the past decade, according to a new study led by NOAA and published today in the online edition of Science.

In the stratosphere, miles above Earth’s surface, small, airborne particles reflect sunlight back into space, which leads to a cooling influence at the ground. These particles are also called “aerosols," and the new paper explores their recent climate effects -- the reasons behind their increase remain the subject of ongoing research.

“Since the year 2000, stratospheric aerosols have caused a slower rate of climate warming than we would have seen without them,” says John Daniel, a physicist at the NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL) in Boulder, Colo. and an author of the new study.


In fact they say that the change is rapid and doubled in the decade:

“Stratospheric aerosol increased surprisingly rapidly in that time, almost doubling during the decade,” Daniel said.


They then admit they don't know the source of these aerosols but give this speculation:

The reasons for the 10-year increase in stratospheric aerosols are not fully understood and are the subject of ongoing research... Likely suspects are natural sources – smaller volcanic eruptions – and/or human activities, which could have emitted the sulfur-containing gases, such as sulfur dioxide


I think there is a much more logical explanation. One the geoengineers give as there number one and cheapest solution: link. Start the video at minute 4:02 for explanation.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Chemtrail deniers are acting immorally only when they know it's true but they are paid to get online and tell people they're crazy, paranoid liars.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Chemtrail deniers are acting immorally only when they know it's true but they are paid to get online and tell people they're crazy, paranoid liars.


... and we all know that would never happen on ats...





My last thread they even started suggesting we were terrorists or murderers or something... let me find the link: link... we can never prove anyone is paid, of course, to post on ats... but they definitely do everything else you list.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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A simple response to this question would be ...YES.

This is an important issue and to deny it is ignorant and immoral..

The makers of WITWAS are making another video.

Here's the trailer...




posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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But again......why are they spending the money to make another "it's possible" film. ?
.....when they could take that money and "prove it's a reality?".
It seriously comes across as if they don't really want to know the truth.
....or scared of the truth.....because if they "really proved" what they claim is in the trails...boy would they be "in the money"...and could then gather MUCH more support. ( and $$)
They would be famous.
It comes across as if they secretly know there is nothing to be found, therefor they better stick with speculation, and appealing to the chemtrail believers, to sell their suspicion for profit......never proving anything....because they don't need to.
edit on 14-4-2012 by EyeDontKnow because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Hi, Piano.
Thanks for starting this thread. It's about time that attention shifted to what is going to happen because of climate- and geo-engineering instead of the non-productive arguments about whether or not the trails in the sky are actually contaminated. Those of us who understand what is possible and have read the documents know that something isn't right, yet the deniers will continue to obfuscate the facts and data by creating a looping argument. So, it's about time that those of us who believe that climate engineering is being experimented with in the field ignore the naysayers and move on to discuss amongst ourselves the ramifications that the Earth and all its life forms are now facing and what the future holds. We have to accept the fact that the disbelievers want to remain in the dark and the disinfo agents are working for the darkness and just move on by educating to the next viable level. I'm happy to see that this thread is still on the straight and narrow as the facts speaks for themselves.

As one member commented about why they are wasting their money on another movie about the World Spraying, I think it's necessary because we are living in a visual society and a sequel to What in the World are They Spraying must be looked at as a teaching tool for the masses. Let's face it, most people are not going to conduct their own searches of patents and documents let alone take the time to read them. A movie can educate the young, the old, the infirm, and the illiterate. I watched the trailer to Why in the World are They Spraying and I found the time lapse videography of the trail dispersal to be, well, illuminating. Thanks to the member who posted this and I'll be watching it when it comes out in the fall of this year.

Seeing as we're spending millions of dollars in Africa on geo-engineering, I hope that someone living in Africa will find this thread and offer some personal insight as to what is happening there. Again, let's face it, the goings on in Africa are not on the radar with the MSM, so we need someone who is going to come forward and report on what they're seeing there first hand. Sure, we speculate all the time about what is going on in the skies over Americans' heads, but we have yet to see a reliable whistle blower come forward with information that is accurate and verifiable. If someone in Africa, resident or contractor, could come to ATS and produce photos and commentary, we could get the wheels rolling. Once this happens, we can begin to compare and contrast the activities we're seeing in other parts of the world.

Where I live, the climate is not as it should be. In your other thread, I presented photos of trails and their dispersal, then commented on how it was supposed to rain that day, but it never did. A certain member rudely commented on this and insulted my meteorological knowledge and comprehension skills as well as stating that fronts don't necessarily mean rain even though the humidity levels encourage contrails to persist. Well, during the Why in the World are They Spraying trailer, it specifically states that these trails encourage drought and can bust storms so that it doesn't rain. So, again, we're seeing disinfo and ridiculing being used to deflect what's actually happening. I can admit that I don't know it all, but I'm willing to learn and make responsible judgement calls. This is all you can do in a world where it's becoming more and more difficult to tell the difference between fact and fiction. Those of us with eyes to see with know when someone is attempting to hoodwink us.

Thanks again for creating this thread, Piano. You're a candle that cannot be snuffed out.

I'll see what I can dig up to add to this thread. After all, every little bit counts.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 

Seeing used to be believing and a picture used to be worth a thousand words. An eye-witness account in a missive to a senator or congressperson, as a concerned citizen, used to mean something. Today it seems like officialdom has decided that all it needs to do is deny, officially, and that makes it true and woe to anyone who notices anything different.

Are geoengineering deniers immoral?

immoral: definition and synonyms


1. violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics. 2. licentious or lascivious.


bad, wicked, dissolute, dissipated, profligate. Immoral, abandoned, depraved describe one who makes no attempt to curb self-indulgence.


Yes, in answer to your question, it is immoral to pollute the skies for far from certain and possibly catastrophic results. It is immoral to deny that it's being done. It is particularly immoral to be so vested in a destructive agenda that those who innocently observe that the emperor has no clothes become the enemy. It is immoral to campaign for acceptance of bizarre phenomena as natural and usual. It is immoral to claim that the masses are ignorant and superstitious and therefore must be wrong in their observations of perversity, just like they were wrong for so many centuries about the priesthood. It is immoral for a corrupt government to style itself as an authority for what is observed. It is immoral to employ paid posters on internet sites to bash observation and it is immoral to knowingly participate thus aiding and abetting global catastrophe. It is immoral to turn a blind eye for temporary personal gain. It is immoral to condone in any way 'necessary evils' and to structure scenarios with 'acceptable collateral damage' while acting as steward of the public interest.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Well one thing to consider....

MAYBE they really are trying to save us by these geoengineering projects because if Ed Dames is correct, things are going to get hot around here very soon


Ed Dames and the Kill Shot


What is the Killshot?

During the top-secret Remote Viewing (RV) CIA and U.S. Army research program, trained viewers that were normally tasked with foreseeing the outcome of war related events began picking up on a future occurrence that appeared to mark a dramatic shift in global life. At first, these viewers, along with Major Ed Dames, the program's senior operations and training officer, had feared their subconscious was foreseeing nuclear war. It turns out after years of Remote Viewing sessions, the event is in fact a series of solar flares that are so devastating to the Earth, it may cause the death of billions and change life on Earth as we know it.

Normally, one might not take such a warning seriously, but what sets this prediction apart from others is that Remote Viewers have a track record of being amazingly accurate regarding globally recognized disasters and events. In fact, there are many predictions that were announced on national radio and TV programs that have already accurately come to pass with unprecedented accuracy including the tragic disaster in Japan, a mysterious crop fungus, the predicted Indonesian 9.0 earthquake and more!

But knowing what's coming over the horizon is only first step. Learning how to prepare and protect yourself and loved ones comes next. For that reason, people have been learning Remote Viewing to locate their personal sanctuary locations, foresee smaller near term events, and become involved with optimal investments before time runs out.


www.thekillshot.com...



Now Ed really was involved in the old CIA Stargate RV team and has predicted the Japan EQ and Fukushima meltdown. I sure hope he is wrong about this, but other RVer's have looked at this event

IF the PTB does indeed 'know something' as 99% of conspiracy theorists believe (and constantly accuse them of), then logic dictates that they would be interested in saving their own ass as well.

Remember the Doomsday Seed Vault in Norway?

You can laugh and make jokes about remote viewers, but you cannot on the one hand claim the government is hiding something major and then dismiss those ex government people that were involved in the very info you claim 'THEY' know and are hiding



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I certainly have never forgotten about Ed Dames nor Kill Shot. It truly resonated with me and I often wonder why those who discuss these things are harshly attacked right away. I mean, if you don't believe, that's fine, but why hold such hatred for those who do and continue to harrass, humiliate, and intimidate them? It doesn't really seem productive to do this and it's a waste of energy in my opinion.

I recently came across this site when it was linked to an ATS thread. I found it to be interesting reading.
www.ih2000.net...

So, if Dames is correct, or Nibiru, or the Dark Rift, or the Oort Cloud is going to cause catastrophic damage, is all this geo-engineering just a psyop or a sort of compartmentalization to keep even those on the inside confused or redirected? You know, as long as they're busy doing something else, it's all good.
edit on 14-4-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Yea, someone who worked for the CIA and military, and he's allowed to speak about stuff like this
are you kidding me


If this guy is anything, he's a disinfo agent. Realize that everything he's saying is but a distraction. I'm even questioning your motives at this point. If you're legit, please don't be fooled so easily.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 





Chemtrail deniers are acting immorally only when they know it's true but they are paid to get online and tell people they're crazy, paranoid liars.


Could you possibly point me in the direction of those you say are paying the chemtrail deniers, because someone owes me an explanation as to where my paycheck has been since I have yet to see it.

Do you honestly believe what your saying?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


C'mon, guy, use some logic there!

Obviously, you don't fit into the category, as you genuinely don't believe in chemtrails, and aren't being paid for this belief.

I'm pretty sure he believes what he's saying.

Just entertain the notion for a second that chemtrails are going on, and yet have been somehow kept under wraps to some extent. Don't you think some people would get paid to make sure people run in circles, and the truth doesn't become clear to most


This doesn't require a high IQ to figure out. It's basic reasoning.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


C'mon, guy, use some logic there!

Obviously, you don't fit into the category, as you genuinely don't believe in chemtrails, and aren't being paid for this belief.

I'm pretty sure he believes what he's saying.

Just entertain the notion for a second that chemtrails are going on, and yet have been somehow kept under wraps to some extent. Don't you think some people would get paid to make sure people run in circles, and the truth doesn't become clear to most


This doesn't require a high IQ to figure out. It's basic reasoning.


First of all this thread is about geoengineering, not chemtrails. Chemtrails is the term those who want to avoid addressing geoengineering use to make people sound crazy.

If you google chemtrails you get conspiracy.

If you google geoengineering you get hard science. Let's stick to geoengineering here please.

Second we can not prove anyone is paid. It would actually be against T&C i think under the personal information clause...

Third it would be foolish to assume there are not government and corporate paid shills on here pushing government and corporate agendas. There are plenty of headlines admitting they are on the internet doing it.

But again we can't "prove"... but, as you suggest, looking at posting history/content it's pretty easy to surmise it is going on in certain topics.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by zorgon
 


Yea, someone who worked for the CIA and military, and he's allowed to speak about stuff like this
are you kidding me


If this guy is anything, he's a disinfo agent. Realize that everything he's saying is but a distraction. I'm even questioning your motives at this point. If you're legit, please don't be fooled so easily.




I have done a LOT of research on remote viewing and I totally agree with UM here...

Ed Dames is disinfo in my opinion.

From what I've read and surmised, in my opinion he was less talented, bigger ego, and might possibly be paid to make the whole subject look bad. This is a common tactic of intelligence agencies... to make something that works well look suspicious/bad.

Ed dames has been proven wrong time and time again.

Now remote viewing works. And the government continuously uses RV technology.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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Well for those of you that believe in what they are saying in WITWATS should enjoy this then....



And since you love those you tube videos here is another good one for you.



So I guess the big question here is....

Is geongineering happening or is it not, because if as being stated in the OP



Geoengineering is a reality.



Definition of REALITY

1 : the quality or state of being real

2 a (1): a real event, entity, or state of affairs
(2): the totality of real things and events ying to escape from reality> b: something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily


www.merriam-webster.com...

But then this is said...



If it is not going on today then they are taking steps to make it happen tomorrow.


So now is it reality or is it not a reality?



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
Well for those of you that believe in what they are saying in WITWATS should enjoy this then....

So I guess the big question here is....

Is geongineering happening or is it not, because if as being stated in the OP



Geoengineering is a reality.



But then this is said...



If it is not going on today then they are taking steps to make it happen tomorrow.


So now is it reality or is it not a reality?




For a non dis-info guy, you sure use some slick techniques there.

They are getting PAID as geoengineers.

They are currently testing. They are running computer models. And high altitude balloon experiments. That I can point to. So my precise statement is precisely upheld.

Geoengineering IS a reality.

Computer models leads to small scale tests... they are doing these two now... which leads to large scale tests, which leads to large scale implementation.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


C'mon, guy, use some logic there!

Obviously, you don't fit into the category, as you genuinely don't believe in chemtrails, and aren't being paid for this belief.

I'm pretty sure he believes what he's saying.

Just entertain the notion for a second that chemtrails are going on, and yet have been somehow kept under wraps to some extent. Don't you think some people would get paid to make sure people run in circles, and the truth doesn't become clear to most


This doesn't require a high IQ to figure out. It's basic reasoning.


First of all this thread is about geoengineering, not chemtrails. Chemtrails is the term those who want to avoid addressing geoengineering use to make people sound crazy.


You don't speak for all of us, buddy. I don't care if you are the OP. The term "chemtrails" has been used for a very long time. You and I both know that this geoengineering is being done by way of chemicals that leave trails, hence "chemtrails".


If you google chemtrails you get conspiracy.

If you google geoengineering you get hard science. Let's stick to geoengineering here please.


Yes, you are talking of conspiracy in the OP. This isn't just about hard science.


Second we can not prove anyone is paid. It would actually be against T&C i think under the personal information clause...

Third it would be foolish to assume there are not government and corporate paid shills on here pushing government and corporate agendas. There are plenty of headlines admitting they are on the internet doing it.


I keep wondering if you are talking to me specifically or the viewers of this thread in general. Not sure. If it's directed at me, I'm not trying to do anything of the sort, and never said I was.

As for your third comment. Agree, obviously.


But again we can't "prove"... but, as you suggest, looking at posting history/content it's pretty easy to surmise it is going on in certain topics.


I agree, but did I suggest this?

I'm just confused. Quoted text, sometimes directed at me, sometimes off the topic, sometimes directed at everyone...





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