The World Of Hogwarts Is Real

The author of the book, Newt Salamander, is clearly referenced as being a wizard. Could the publishing of this book, while being categorized as fiction set within the Hogwarts universe, be a way for the Wizards to continue to be amused by our ignorance of them?

From what I understand about dragon breeds, a Green Welsh is not a species of dragon that could be properly controlled by merely a couple of untrained wizards. If I were to guess, I would imagine it was wrangled by dragon reserve workers.

You have mentioned six mythical creatures. Surely you understand that these are not the only 6 in existence. There are many the defy proper categorization. We share commonalities with these magical creatures for many reasons. Some may have been created by Wizards long ago. Some have simply evolved like Wizards did, from mundane animals to magical animals.

Also, you ask "why don't more of the world know of bigfoot?" to which I reply, almost EVERY SINGLE culture IN THE ENTIRE WORLD has a bigfoot myth.

The key word there is myth. There are stories of these creatures, but nothing concrete is known. You misquoted my question. I actually asked..

Why do we not know of Bigfoot or Chupacabra on a larger scale?

Perhaps I was ambiguous with my language. What I intended was.. why don't we know of Bigfoot? We have stories and anecdotes, some photos, maybe some anomalous hairs, but little if anything is concrete. My reasoning for this? Wizard interference. If this guy is all over the planet, like you suggest, then the idea that he hasn't been discovered on a larger scale points squarely at a conspiracy to keep him hidden.


As for MIBs... What does all of this research say about the possibility that these creatures a purposefully acting odd so the target humans focus more on them than the phenomenon the MIBs are asking about? I cannot be certain that MIBs are not simply modifying memories to make people believe they don't have any missing memories.. because that is what a good memory charm would do, in my opinion.

In the great words of Arthur C. Clarke...
1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

These three quotes just evidenced MY theory, sir.

1. Science is probably wrong when they say something is impossible. (Hence, Magic may be Possible.)
2. Do what is impossible. (Hence, the Impossible is Possible if you know how to do it. i.e. Magic)
3. Advanced Tech is indistinguishable from Magic. (i.e. Advanced Tech can look like Magic, but isn't Magic.)

Everything you've described can be explained by genetic modification and high-technology.

In conclusion, there are 4 much more likely scenarios...
1. Human technology from the future
2. Human-made or PERHAPS even other-specie/genus-made technology from the past
3. Government civilian-forbidden technology
4. Extra Terrastrials

1. I concur. Wizards may not exist, and it could all be advanced tech from the future... but what about the magical animals? What about the magical plants? The Voynich Document? Are these also artifacts from the future scattered throughout our past?

2. Ah, interesting idea. Perhaps Wizards are a completely different species.

3. Could the government's civilian-forbidden technology account for all of the magic that has supposedly happened through out the history of man?

4. Which is more likely, a group of humans from earth have learned to harness powers we do not understand and continue to keep us in the dark about, or people from another world have learned to harness powers we do not understand and continue to keep us in the dark about?

When the scientific community says "nothing is impossible" it's an abbreviated way of saying "nothing is impossible within the context of science"

Ghosts aren't impossible - But is that because of the human mind, or because they naturally exist?

It's all but scientifically proven at this point that the human mind can manipulate subatomic particles with thought alone, that said, innate psychic ability is possible through science... And if "magic" does indeed exist, it can be explained by the physical world - making it not "magic" at all.

That doesn't mean there aren't wizards... It just means the forces they use can be scientifically measured...

And when I think of "magic" I think of "things happening because of the sheer will of the magic-user, without proper explaination" I can throw a fireball with a glove that produces projectile fire. I can erase a memory with a tool that manipulates the brain.

I can't do either of those things by going to a school that teaches me the correct word to say.

Originally posted by thegagefather

It's all but scientifically proven at this point that the human mind can manipulate subatomic particles with thought alone, that said, innate psychic ability is possible through science... And if "magic" does indeed exist, it can be explained by the physical world - making it not "magic" at all.

That doesn't mean there aren't wizards... It just means the forces they use can be scientifically measured...

I tried making the point in the second line of yours that I quoted.

If magic is real, it must have some measurement value even if it's a unit we have yet to discover.
Things changed temperatures long before Joules came up with a measurement of energy to explain what was happening.
So if magic exists(which I hope it does) we just haven't found the words to describe it and measure it yet.

I will disagree with the first part I quoted though.
Just because we may one day be able to explain what is happening doesn't mean it will cease to be magic.
The definition will simply be modified to something along the lines of "Magic is the end result of the controlled use of energy (xyz) upon the environment to produce results that would not otherwise be possible without the use of energy (xyz)".
That is you can use a mechanical means to lift a car, but the mechanical means is seen.
Or you can use magic.

I would think that if magic were real, other than great levels of discipline to learn it might also be something genetic.
Some way of channeling the unknown energy that currently we are unable to measure.

I don't prescribe to the belief that advanced technology eventually becomes magic, as that is still some mechanical or electrical construct doing the work.
To me for it to be magic, it has to be some sort of energy we have yet to discover actually doing the work under the direction of the "wizard" or spell caster.

I think you're right though, if magic is real certainly just saying words would not be enough, unless it is some harmonic resonance.
The words might simply walk the wizards mind through the steps to construct the energy field and direct it's action.

Originally posted by thegagefather
When the scientific community says "nothing is impossible" it's an abbreviated way of saying "nothing is impossible within the context of science"

That is too limiting. Science is merely a method for explaining our universe. If things are going on that we cannot measure, and have no way of measuring, using the Scientific Method, then that method becomes useless.

Ghosts aren't impossible - But is that because of the human mind, or because they naturally exist?

It's all but scientifically proven at this point that the human mind can manipulate subatomic particles with thought alone, that said, innate psychic ability is possible through science... And if "magic" does indeed exist, it can be explained by the physical world - making it not "magic" at all.

If it is all but scientifically proven, it isn't scientifically proven. This is what you have to understand. Science has not been able to prove your premise, and your entire premise is to explain Magic with Science.

That doesn't mean there aren't wizards... It just means the forces they use can be scientifically measured…

Please refer back through this thread to the video I posted. Flatland has no concept of "UP", and it cannot be scientifically measured on a 2D plane of existence. Does that mean it doesn't exist? No. It means it is beyond what they would consider two dimensional science. The same might be said of magic. It may work on principles that will never be able to be understood my 3D science, because there is no basis for understanding.

And when I think of "magic" I think of "things happening because of the sheer will of the magic-user, without proper explaination" I can throw a fireball with a glove that produces projectile fire. I can erase a memory with a tool that manipulates the brain.

I can't do either of those things by going to a school that teaches me the correct word to say.

Because you aren't a wizard.

What I think, and it is just my personal opinion of course, is that elves, fairies, goblins, dwarves, wizards etc did exist. I find it hard to believe that people in the olden days could make stuff up like that and have the tales carry down for hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of years.

I could go farther (my opinion ONLY again, this is NOT fact by any means) and say what people thought were angels and works of God back in the Biblical days were really wizards and the like too. People had names for things they didn't understand.

How could they make up dragons? How could they make up Lancelot etc? I think, just like the gods of Egypt, Greek, etc., all existed too - but people started to not believe any longer and everything mentioned from the start of my post 'went away'. After all, if you don't believe, why show anyone?

JK had some amazing books. Sometimes I too felt she knew more than just 'making it up off the top of her head'. Perhaps they do exist and let a rare few people know to tell stories and write books to see how it's accepted and would use that acceptance to show themselves again?

Many possibilities. The Universe is vast. I think anything and everything is possible.

There's no concrete evidence to suggest magic exists in the form of what JKR wrote in her books. Maybe the supernatural is real, but I find it hard to believe in spells, charms and what not without anything to back 'em up.

Originally posted by PeaceNLove123
There's no concrete evidence to suggest magic exists in the form of what JKR wrote in her books. Maybe the supernatural is real, but I find it hard to believe in spells, charms and what not without anything to back 'em up.

There is no concrete evidence that Jesus ever existed, yet over a billion people not only believe that he did, they actually ascribe magical powers to him. Can over a billion people be wrong? Yes.

As already outlined in this thread, there are multiple instances of concrete magical happening that have went down throughout time. Some call them Miracles, some call it what it is, Magic.

You appear to believe the Harry Potter books are true stories.

Food for thought:

www.cracked.com...

Originally posted by coop039
You appear to believe the Harry Potter books are true stories.

Food for thought:

www.cracked.com...

That is an interesting take on the concept. I believe that if Wizards are real, any apparent weaknesses they might have are most likely misdirection or possibly confusion on the part of the author, JKR. I do not think a Wizard would allow any real weaknesses to be published in a book that is going to get such a wide readership.

Thanks for adding to the thread!

reply to post by Furbs


I think harry potter is a great big ol' jesus allegory. And the magic schools represent the mystery schools of the occult. House of gryffindor symbol is a lion. The lion has always been symbolic of jesus. And the house of slytherin is of course brandished with a snake, an animal that has been used to represent satan or "the deciever." Now, i'm not a christian in any sense and I don't necessarily mean "jesus" or "satan" in a literal sense. But there are so many occultic references to that series from the phoenix to the basilisk, that i don't think there's any way J.K. Rowling could've put them there by accident. I think if you look up the "merovingian" dynasty you'll understand more of what i'm trying to get at, if you don't already. Davinci code type stuff

Originally posted by kaiode1
reply to post by Furbs

 

I think harry potter is a great big ol' jesus allegory. And the magic schools represent the mystery schools of the occult. House of gryffindor symbol is a lion. The lion has always been symbolic of jesus. And the house of slytherin is of course brandished with a snake, an animal that has been used to represent satan or "the deciever." Now, i'm not a christian in any sense and I don't necessarily mean "jesus" or "satan" in a literal sense. But there are so many occultic references to that series from the phoenix to the basilisk, that i don't think there's any way J.K. Rowling could've put them there by accident. I think if you look up the "merovingian" dynasty you'll understand more of what i'm trying to get at, if you don't already. Davinci code type stuff

edit on 14-6-2012 by kaiode1 because: (no reason given)

You are actually pretty close.

en.wikipedia.org...

The literature styling of the book series itself is that of the monomyth. It is a storytelling device that has been used for thousands of years. Jesus, Moses, Frodo, Luke Skywalker, Anakin Skywalker, Horus, Gilgamesh, and many other Hero myths all fall into that same type of storytelling format. That is why the story always feels so familiar.

As for the occult references, I think Rowling may have been influenced by occult forces to divulge some of the truth as a way to gauge public opinion on the idea that Wizards are real. I wonder if we passed their little test.

Thanks for the response, great stuff to think about.

Originally posted by Furbs

Wizards

Have you ever seen someone do something that you flat out know to be impossible? Seen an odd person appear or disappear in the blink of an eye or walk behind a tree and simply not walk out the other side? You may have seen a Wizard. Wizards are people born with the ability to do Magic. Real Magic. We are not talking about Chris Angel and David Blaine. They are most commonly born to parents who are themselves Wizards, but the genetic mutation has been known to happen in offspring with no previous magic using. The ability to lose magic can also be lost to offspring if a similar mutation occurs. Anyone who has read Harry Potter should be aware of this scenario.

So, if there are wizards, where are they?

They are in hiding.

"Non-magic people (more commonly known as Muggles were particularly afraid of magic in medieval times, but not very good at recognizing it. On the rare occasion that they did catch a real witch or wizard, burning had no effect whatsoever. The witch or wizard would perform a basic Flame Freezing Charm and then pretend to shriek with pain while enjoying a gentle, tickling sensation. Indeed, Wendelin the Weird enjoyed being burned so much that she allowed herself to be caught no less than forty-seven times in various disguises."

source: A History of Magic by Bathilda Bagshot (as reported by J.K.Rowling.)

As a people, humans did not take kindly to Wizards, and tended to kill them (or at least think we killed them) whenever we got the chance. This is documented throughout history, with the Church funded Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials being the most popular recollections. As our (non-magical humans) methods for killing people improved, the Wizards became more and more adept at hiding themselves. Now, the Wizards are able to hide themselves in plain sight, masking their villages and suburbs within the network of grids the non-human world has set up.

Wizards live all over the world. Almost none of the world's non-Wizard populations know anything about them, and they try their hardest to keep it that way. They stay out of the affairs of non-Wizards for the most part, only availing themselves when the need arises. Sometimes Evil Wizards bent on harming others are able to break through the magical defenses of the Wizarding Council and affect changes in our world. This is something that happens rarely anymore, and it is becoming increasingly difficult for Wizards to remain secret during our Information Age.

Do you mean to tell me you actually believe wizards are real, and the source you're getting this from is Bathilda Bagshot & JK Rowling?

Hahahaha.

Come on man..

Originally posted by MisterFister103
I see that you talk about aliens in your post, and I do believe in such beings....but wizards, they are not.

Same opinion for me.. Sorry dude but wizards are not real, well not in the way we would think of them..

I would imagine the closest thing to a "wizard" is someone who has managed to work out the laws of our own space/time, and uses the knowledge to their advantage by slipping into other dimensions, or using advanced tech that looks like magic to an individual who does not understand these laws. I have read reports about people caliming that ET's have posession of this knowledge, and even use a "wand" looking thing to aid in their manipulations. I think I remember in Jim Sparks account he said that he had come accross various entities using this special "wand", even an ARMY officer.


There is no such thing as "Magic".

"Magic" is just something that we don't understand/haven't figured out yet.

Originally posted by knightwhosaysnih
Do you mean to tell me you actually believe wizards are real, and the source you're getting this from is Bathilda Bagshot & JK Rowling?

Hahahaha.

Come on man..

Originally posted by MisterFister103
I see that you talk about aliens in your post, and I do believe in such beings....but wizards, they are not.

Same opinion for me.. Sorry dude but wizards are not real, well not in the way we would think of them..

I would imagine the closest thing to a "wizard" is someone who has managed to work out the laws of our own space/time, and uses the knowledge to their advantage by slipping into other dimensions, or using advanced tech that looks like magic to an individual who does not understand these laws. I have read reports about people caliming that ET's have posession of this knowledge, and even use a "wand" looking thing to aid in their manipulations. I think I remember in Jim Sparks account he said that he had come accross various entities using this special "wand", even an ARMY officer.


There is no such thing as "Magic".

"Magic" is just something that we don't understand/haven't figured out yet.

How does that fall outside of what I had posited? Aliens using wands to manipulate energies that may evoke higher dimensions than we are capable of understanding sounds a lot like magic to me.

Thanks for posting!

Originally posted by Furbs


There is no concrete evidence that Jesus ever existed.

Well I dont know how you define concrete evidence.. or how you could possibly garner that concrete evidence of someone's physical existence 2000 years ago.. But there is a lot of evidence, and yes it is scientific. I am not religious, or Christian, but I do actually think Jesus did exist at one point. I honestly CBF throwing links at you, so just use google there is tons of info out there.

Originally posted by Furbs
As already outlined in this thread, there are multiple instances of concrete magical happening that have went down throughout time. Some call them Miracles, some call it what it is, Magic.

There is no such thing as magic, magic itself is a stupid term to use because everything in this universe is explainable.. We just don't have the knowlege/capacity to understand how it happened yet or how to manipulate it. Magic is just a term used by the ignorant religious types because they dont understand how they did it, therefore they must be evil.

Originally posted by Furbs
How does that fall outside of what I had posited? Aliens using wands to manipulate energies that may evoke higher dimensions than we are capable of understanding sounds a lot like magic to me.

Thanks for posting!

Sorry I don't like coming accross as hostile but seriously, the term 'magic', in the way you are describing, is just very advanced tech which the common man would be baffled by.

Originally posted by knightwhosaysnih

Originally posted by Furbs
How does that fall outside of what I had posited? Aliens using wands to manipulate energies that may evoke higher dimensions than we are capable of understanding sounds a lot like magic to me.

Thanks for posting!

Sorry I don't like coming accross as hostile but seriously, the term 'magic', in the way you are describing, is just very advanced tech which the common man would be baffled by.

Actually, it doesn't have to be advanced at all. Even the simplest tech from a different dimension would appear advanced beyond our understanding. I would dare say something as mundane as a 4th spatial dimensional bottle of soda would appear downright impossible to us.

If a species of man, or any animal for that matter, had the ability to hone in on another spatial dimension, it could very well equate to 'magic', especially if that is the term that those that are able to do it have given it. Our understanding of the term 'magic' could very well be an ignorant grasp at the concept, and giving superstitious causality to theories that we cannot actually ever understand because of our limited sensory powers could it be product of that ignorance.

Originally posted by knightwhosaysnih

Originally posted by Furbs


There is no concrete evidence that Jesus ever existed.

Well I dont know how you define concrete evidence.. or how you could possibly garner that concrete evidence of someone's physical existence 2000 years ago.. But there is a lot of evidence, and yes it is scientific. I am not religious, or Christian, but I do actually think Jesus did exist at one point. I honestly CBF throwing links at you, so just use google there is tons of info out there.

I don't want to turn this is into a debate on the existence of Jesus, so I won't. There are multiple threads on ATS in which to discuss that single aspect of this paper, and there is no consensus.

In a way, I think JKR has some basic ideas correct.

The magical world does exist, in a way, as does the magical community, and it is often unseen by "Muggles"...not because of some wizardry, however, but simply out of muggles being unwilling to step outside of their own crafted reality.

Occasionally, they do so, but they aren't even aware of it, such as when they go to a Renaissance Festival. There, a Muggle is surrounded by people who are very in tune with the magical world, and yet to the Muggle, it's all just fun and games. A few are even drawn to it, and join the magical world.

Magic isn't near as potent in the real world as it is in JKR's books. It's much more subtle than that. It's more about shaping reality with our thoughts and ways we see the world. For indeed, what is the world, but the way we choose to see it?

Sure, many Muggles will mock such a stance...but I ask you this...do you pretty much have everything you want out of life, or at least close to it? Do you live somewhere you truly love to live....do something you enjoy doing? I am, so knock the idea all you like.... Whether through magic or luck, or both, who really cares? All I know is that I put certain ideas out there into the Universe, and they've manifested. "My people" would call that magic.

You may think me off my rocker....and to each their own. Still, it isn't a viewpoint we often advertise while in the "Muggle" world (and thanks to JKR for coining such an identifiable term). Most of us are amongst you and you'd never know it, unless you paid closer attention. Minor eccentricities are one way, but not everyone is so easily identifiable.

Just last weekend, I went to a wedding of a mermaid to a clown. How many muggles can say that?

Originally posted by Gazrok
Just last weekend, I went to a wedding of a mermaid to a clown. How many muggles can say that?

That depends, are you living in Portland?

Awesome insights! I want to delve more into this aspect of the scenario with you, but I don't have time right now (the wife is currently in labor and I have been stealing time while she naps to hop on ATS today and cause some trouble) and I wanted to acknowledge your sentiments with the enthusiasm I think they deserve.

Thanks for your participation!

wow. that made me think a lot. pretty sure im a wiz but my rents aren't lettin me know till im ready. either that or i have used too many illegal substances from ages 15-19