Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Now tell me who it is that is for all this Draconian Internet censorship? Do you really believe it is strictly one party or the other?

NO! That is my goddamn point! Hello? None of this comes from any ideology. Our elected officials work together, there's no left right in government anymore, only in us...the people.

Being of American Indian descendant, it strikes at my very heart the thought of one pitting against the other. Both sides (Liberals and Conservatives) are at fault and form the very foundations they hate. You want to end bigotry, hate, racism, abortion and a plethora of other issues? Start by looking at yourselves in a mirror. You will not like what you see. This world has a lot of hate and wrong doers. Identify the evil folks on both sides and start to separate yourself from those people. You see them every day and you know who they are. A few of them have commented on this very post. My people’s philosophy is to not associate with evil doers.

Homosexuality or Muslim should not matter. A person’s sexual preference or religion should not come into play when describing the basic fundamentals in life. The right to pursue liberty and happiness is a basic fundamental fact that our fathers from this country fought for and it should not be denied to any human. However, marriage was created out of religion and it should stay in that arena. I feel a civil union is appropriate for our citizens and it has no bounds. Man to man, woman to man, woman to woman. All are civil unions and should have the basic fundamental rights. Any other opinion is just wanting for spite and should not be in the discussion. Religion is in the same boat. Do what you would like just do not rob the basic fundamental rights of another human being. Hope it helps both sides.

Racism? I for one have been subjected to it and feel it is an element of human nature and it will never be eradicated. We all want to belong be it by Sex, orientation, race, color, anything. So it will be with us. What we should be teaching in our schools is to respect all human beings and their personal space. Teach our children to love and teach them what hate is like so they understand the difference. Teach them to cherish human interaction as we have very few years on this earth. Teach them to make a difference. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are elements of hate and fear mongering. They thrive to divide. Take it away from them. Turn them away. They will get the hint. Remember evil doers? Do not feed the hate extinguish it. The cities (Chicago and Detroit) that have all the poor folks need to start to teach and educate their children and rise up. Knowledge is free and powerful. Use it. Teach it. Live it! All cultures have endured evil doers and so shall these folks.

As we speak of women I am reminded of my wonderful wife and how she works and strives to excel in corporate America. Why the hate on Bauchman or Palin. They are pushed into the spot light and the media destroys them. People are quick to judge. Do not follow and be sheep to the media. Applaud the women for what they have achieved. If you disagree, then say that. Do not ridicule and make fun of. It makes you look worse.

If you are for abortion simply because of only choice than you are seriously in need of finding your inner spirit. Abortion should only be done because of a defect or rape which they had no choice in being inseminated or that the child will be born with a serious condition. As for defending an evil doer after he or she was convicted of doing unspeakable acts on a fellow human. Why save this poor soul? They chose to do this and should forfeit their life for the life or lives they took. That is justice!

So what say me? I say respect your fellow man or woman. Teach your children to do the same. Applaud those who are not the same as you and demand the same for you. Reach out and help others in need. Do not rely on others to do for you when you can do for yourself. I live by these teachings as my parents and ancestors have done for generations. I challenge all of you to rise up and do your best for your fellow man. Amen and GOD bless all of you even the evil doers!

reply to post by Frith

Can you give any example of the "left" calling black conservatives names?

No, that's conservative women they do the name calling. You remember the Bill Maher thing....

With black conservatives they are much more clever in their critiques and in the way they sabotage them. But here's a story of how Democrats slander black conservatives This one is particularly catty, although nothing is more catty than Maher slandering Sarah.


floridarattletale.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I just got this in an email. Thought I would pass it along.

I am a liberal because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't.

I am a liberal because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

I am a liberal because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

I am a liberal because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

I am a liberal because because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius.

I am a liberal because because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

I am a liberal because because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits, while we take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.

I am a liberal because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the liberals see fit.

I am a liberal because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit those with different beliefs who would never get their agendas past the voters.

I am a liberal because I think that it's better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, gopher or fish.

I am a liberal because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised "HOPE AND CHANGE".

I mean really??? this is inane -

The truly manipulative part is that you want me to disprove things I don't believe in
for reasons that someone else scribbled down out spite.

It is on par with saying

"Conservatives hate mexicans because they are always trying to deport them"

"97% of conservatives are retarded because they defend companies that charge them $4.00
for something that costs $.15 in other countries"

"Conservatives hate education because they are always trying to replace science with profiteering"

I mean, you don't recognize what I'm saying without me having to give you this example?

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I think Obama is the Abbie Hoffman of this millenium. In the 60's we didn't look at color. We embraced it for a common cause. Well, actually I didn't believe in most of the causes but attending them was fun

I know this is true because all of my music came out of that generation... basically same philosophies just a little more angry now. (most of it)

Simply point out what you don't agree with.
Attack the message. Not the messenger.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


I dunno. There were lots of angry people back then.
We just mellowed as we got older. We just mostly remember the good times.

P.S. And the music. It was good back then.

reply to post by LAKOTAWINS


I really liked your post. Thank you for a sane and humane approach. Your message is one of unity and I appreciate that.
I believe that we all can attenuate to the Inner Spirit.
In matters of politics and laws, we tend to try and make things concrete because the law is very specific. In doing this, things can become heated.
Greetings

Originally posted by Nite_wing
Simply point out what you don't agree with.
Attack the message. Not the messenger.

OK, I disagree with you posting things that someone made up so that you
can con me into defending reasons that are not my own. It is manipulative
which is why it pisses me off, so you understand...

reply to post by LAKOTAWINS


Only someone who believes and lives what they say could post something like this.
Thank you. S&F

reply to post by seabag


I decided to take a few minutes to respond, I almost didn't because of the way you posed the questions and the way some of the posters on here have responded. In any case here it goes, please don't be too complainy and irksome conaservatives, I'm just trying to help you glean some information on an alternate viewpoint, and for the record I tend to be fiscally conservative, while remaining socially liberal. I still consider myself a liberal, but at times I have been considered a conservative, but for calrity's sake I will be arguing from my viewpoint on all of the issues discussed, they may vary from the standard liberal perspective, but I think they all fall within the realm of liberalism.

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

Well it seems like you have failed to understand the liberal viewpoint and asked a questions about two subjects that, in my mind at least, are only really tangentally related.

Yes, it is true that liberals in general support the homosexual agenda. I guess we just find the fact that homosexuals desire equal rights less demanding. In any case yes we support, in most ways, the homosexual agenda,it is not, however, the opposite of what I think you're getting at with the sharia comment.
To many liberals the sharia law problem is non existant. I, at least,believe that the "sharia law problem" is a non issue, here in the United States anyway. Yes, the adherence of some people to sharia law in a strict fashion can be very problematic. It is in no way desireable, at least to me, but the manner in which its opposition is persued by the conservatives is often seeemingly arbitrarily aggressive as opposed to genuinely concerned/informed. To attempt to clarify, I believe that the way many conservatives who rabpidly persue the anti sharia law do so in a manner which is very off putting. In any case I do not view the two topics as being at odds. Really, I am finding it difficult to explain my opinion in the context of this question. I'd be happy to try and explain to anyone interested how i feel with a little more targeted framework. In any case, On to question 2.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

I'm not quite sure if this is a liberal bashing bait question, or how I am supposed to answer this one. I get the general feeling from your questions, and I may be very incorrect, that you base your opinions on a very specific perspective of the liberal viewpoint/person, one formed from a fox news type perspective, not saying that is a bad thing, but I for one have many liberal friends, and we, by in large anyway, deplore the PC society that we find ourselves in and although we believe racism still exists, we do not hesitate from disucussing people like sharpton( I make fun of him all the time) in a disparaging or derrogatory manner. While I have briefly held great respect for Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain, I find there policies and opinions to be contrary to my own and for that, I hold him no ill wioll other than my dislike for his policies,etc. I sometimes will get a jab in at there exspense, but it is no more than i make fun of the same people you meantioned as all liberals praising. In any case I realize that my own circle of friends, may be the exception rather than the rule, but I also believe that it is unfair to categorize us all in such a manner. Turkey time....

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

I believe that this question,much like ones before it, is an oversimplification of a concept, but here you go..
I mock Sarah Palin because she is, in my opinion an incapable representative and at the least, less intelligent than I would want my representative to be. I thought condy did a fine job, so idk there.

I decided I would stop here, because I tend to pontificate a bit more than I realize when I attempt to explain my opinion. Anyway, I'd be happy to discuss more with anyone within the confines of this op's fine post/thread. I just don't want to bore anyone more than I already have, plus I'm runniong out of characters and it seems a bit garrish to post a two post reply. look forward to civil logical discussion, if any is to be found.

reply to post by Nite_wing


walls have got colder and closer since then...

reply to post by LAKOTAWINS

I would rather now live amongst the native Americans myself since visiting the museum down in DC.

tons of us folk I'm sure.
nmai.si.edu...

reply to post by seabag


Let me answer this for you.
The reason you're confused is that you have a lot of pre-conceived assumptions about what liberals are, which you have rather obviously been indoctrinated to believe based on what the conservative media continually says, as they paint liberals in a negative light.

1. Liberals are not 'pro'- sharia law. I've never met a single one who wants sharia law to be the law of the land in the US, or anywhere really. The big "sharia scare" is a scam being pushed by many ignorant conservatives who are still whipped up into a paranoid scare about all-things-muslim after 9/11, and are convinced in their terrified little minds that the scary muslims want to convert the US to sharia law, which is never - EVER - going to happen. It's so ridiculous as to not even be worthy of discussion. So no - liberals are not 'pro' sharia law, it's a myth perpetuated by the lying media scumbags who you should stop listening to. Being a promoter of religious freedoms regardless of the particular religion (even if its islam) does not mean one wants sharia law to become the norm. Learn to recognize the exaggerations.

2. Most liberals I know think that Sharpton and the others you listed are a bunch of morons. They trot themselves out any time there's a racial angle to a story and act as the self-imposed 'spokespeople' for blacks or for democrats or.... something. They're out-dated dinosaurs and certainly don't speak for me or anyone I know.
The reason we hate the conservative black people you mentioned is because they are also ignorant morons. Period.

3. As someone else replied to your question about social programs, they are for everyone. They're not for 'black people'. If black people take advantage of them, that's their business, but keeping a social safety net for the disadvantaged, disabled and disenfranchised has saved many more lives than it has 'ruined', and just because someone can take advantage of a system does not mean the system itself is flawed or needs to be abolished. It means we need to educate more people to support themselves and come off of those systems. Denying food stamps or health care only DESTROYS, it doesn't "teach a lesson" and force people to somehow magically support themselves. Social programs are for everyone, white, black, asian or otherwise.

4. Again, as someone already pointed out - the reason liberals hate people like sarah palin is not because she's a woman... there are plenty of intelligent, thoughtful, inspiring women in the country, many of whom are loved by liberals and conservatives alike. They hate Palin because she is MIND-NUMBINGLY RETARDED AND HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICAN POLITICS. She is a narcissistic, cynical idealogue who has a very extreme, politically-motivated agenda and she doesn't care about educating herself on facts and information, just on hitting the same stale notes over and over again until she's blue in the face. Imagine Hillary Clinton and Palin in a debate. Clinton would absolutely crush Palin into dust because she's about 1000x sharper and more informed about the world than Palin could ever dream of being. That's not sexist at all, just a simple fact. Why can't conservatives grasp how dumb she is? Probably the same reason they refused to grasp how dumb W. Bush was... Sigh....

5. Pro-abortion, anti-death penalty. Again, your premise is flawed and based on conservative talking points. Liberals are not "pro-abortion", just like they're not "pro sharia law". Liberals do not "love abortions" or any other such nonsense. What they love however, is the sacredness of one's own body, to do with it as they choose, and make their own decisions about their health. They love the right to 'choose' their own decisions, they don't love abortions themselves. No one does.
But the death penalty is an archaic and unnecessary means of dealing with criminal acts, it solves nothing, and truly does discount the sacredness of human life, more so than aborting a mass of unconscious cells does.
Putting someone to death should only be done if the criminals themselves desires it. Then, go for it. But many people have been wrongfully put to death, and it's just a useless outdated way of handling crime and punishment. It's not just, and it's not effective as a deterrent either.

I hope this helps answer your questions. The easiest way for your future questions to be answered quickly and easily, even by yourself, is to remove all the built-in assumptions that your conservative media sources have programmed into you about what liberals are, and what they think etc. But good job bringing up the topic, we do need to see eye to eye much more than we currently do, so thanks for that at least.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by LAKOTAWINS

 

I really liked your post. Thank you for a sane and humane approach. Your message is one of unity and I appreciate that.
I believe that we all can attenuate to the Inner Spirit.
In matters of politics and laws, we tend to try and make things concrete because the law is very specific. In doing this, things can become heated.
Greetings

I hear what you are saying here myself and also Lakotawins message, unfortunately its jumping the gun and that has begun the undoing... no unity in the message that was brought here that everyone wanted to get away from in the old world. Something alot of Obama's voters do not know much about it would seem via my own observations and question to my friends who have voted for him... which most of them regret dearly now. I can't figure that part out but he must have not saved the day? could have made it worse...

we defied the establishment to get here too... and we handed our message of what was going on on the other side of the planet.

fast forward this to about 57:min and watch for a minute or two... everything is so corrupt now but it seems a lady dressed in Indian headdress is being presented with a Holy Bible too. In this long history of ours Native Americans never established equal rights (Lady Liberty) they were trying to give them the message also. The image of Liberty dressed in headdress is depicting the word of truth which is going to liberate their women also (did the Native Americans know of Lady Liberty before her establishment and a statue commemorating her?)

This was the new world, and I pretty much disagree with what went down in the old country too... Tyndale totally defied the Pope in a way that actually can not be undone by translating the bible into the commoners language (english) We wouldn't even know of these things if it wasn't for Tyndale and Martin Luther... they would have been assimilated already by really uncool people with no mini Nations within a Nation.

To start off with, there is too much division in the US, and too many people that feel the need to label everyone. Just because one is a Democrat, does not make one a Liberal; and being a Republican does not make one Conservative. There are radicals on each side of the isle, and people need to realize that.
Now onto a couple of your questions.

Originally posted by seabag
1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

As a Gay Man in the US, the reason why there is a push by gays for certain rights is just that simply, a quest for equal rights. Most every other developed nation in the world has granted equal rights to homosexuals, the US and the Radical Right Minority have used it as a fear tactic for quite a while. Just as they did with Black rights in the 50's and 60's. There honestly is no "gay agenda" here in the US or anywhere else. To be frank about it, it is a bigger issue with heterosexuals that anyone else.
As far as the Muslim Sharia Law, our nation was founded on Religious Freedom and Separation of Church and State. "In God We Trust" was not added to our currency until we eliminated the Gold Standard and went to "Soft money". This may have been the politicians way of saying that they didn't trust the value of our money then, even more true today. But I digress, the reason for anyone supporting the Muslim Sharia is Religious Freedom, and Tolerance; and keeping the government from telling us what we should believe.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Again, all of the "democrats" you listed are all left wing radicals. There are just as many Right Wing Radical Republican nut-jobs out there as there are Left Wing nut-jobs.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

Palin, really? The liberals are not the ones that destroyed Palin, she did that to herself. Sorry, but if she would have been elected, there was a good chance I would have moved to another country. Her being just one heart attack from the Presidency. Anyone that lives in Alaska and says things like "Alaskans are the first line of defense against Russia" and "I can see Russia from my house" needs to look at a map and distance and realize she sounds like a total moron. She may be a very nice woman, and may actually have a brain, but she definitely did not show it in the election.
As far as Hilary, she ran the country good the first time she was in office, why not let her do it officially for a change. And I have never heard anyone that is a Democrat that has a brain say anything bad about Condolezza, if she would have ran for President, I probably would have voted for her.

Originally posted by Transfixed

The big "sharia scare" is a scam being pushed by many ignorant conservatives who are still whipped up into a paranoid scare about all-things-muslim after 9/11, and are convinced in their terrified little minds that the scary muslims want to convert the US to sharia law, which is never - EVER - going to happen. It's so ridiculous as to not even be worthy of discussion.

In a shocking case out of Pennsylvania, an American judge has thrown out an assault charge against a Muslim immigrant based on Sharia law. Here

Judge orders use of Islamic law in Tampa lawsuit over mosque leadership.
Here's another

The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an injunction against an Oklahoma referendum banning the use of Islamic Sharia law in courts and said there's no evidence of such influence on US courts.
Oops. Here we go again

A Florida appeals court has just cleared the way for lawsuit over a monetary dispute at a mosque to be determined by Islamic Sharia law. Oh. This could never happen

reply to post by aries377


no there is corruption via wealth and the establishment of the federal reserve began the divisions... we all had it pretty much right until Lady Liberty forgot how to teach us to love one another with that apple we place on teachers desk (all my teachers we're female, didn't make it to collage)

a trust has been broken for all the coc aine parties of the 70's, the hippies had it right too but they didn't deliver the right message for the fall had already begun well before and mostly after the Great War.

the apple on the teachers desk symbolizes knowledge of how to (live and love) not gain stability thru wealth, which is what we are taught in school.

foreign interest are to blame and with a few generations the message of peace becomes an extermination of a race (which s not what the founders intended)

I say it's time to get serious again, people are just having too much fun not knowing where they come from and what they represent on this worlds history stage.

I would like to answer your questions from my personal point of view, as I cannot speak for anyone else. I sometimes make the same mistake many others make, which is taking the beliefs of the majority of liberals or conservatives and lumping them together as a representation of anyone affiliated with one of those parties. This is of course a mistake, which we should all keep in mind.

1) I am not against homosexuality in principle. If one looks into the animal world they will find many examples of homosexuality. It is not a choice an individual makes, despite what many conservatives seem to think, and this is why persecution of them is wrong.

In regards to Sharia law, you are making a mistake in your logic, whether purposefully or accidentally. Most of us do not believe in Sharia law, but we DO believe in governments leaving people alone, especially when speaking of different nations. If they want to have Sharia law in any country, and the majority supports it, then I don't think anyone outside of that country should be making judgements.

2) Saying that liberals keep the term racist alive is nothing more than a skewed belief that you personally hold. More or less an opinion. Just like any level-headed person would, liberals praise and denounce individuals based on their stances regarding certain issues. I support and denounce the same person sometimes, because it is NOT based on the person, but what they stand for on different issues.

3) This is basically the same as I said above. You are presenting a fallacy by presenting liberal beliefs as cut and dry towards individuals involved in politics.

4) As far as abortion, I stand by the fact that the government should not have the right to dictate what anyone can or cannot do with their bodies. A baby is actually a parasite from a scientific point of view, therefore it is alive, even if only a cell. My personal feeling regarding whether abortion is murder is that killing a developing baby is morally wrong after it develops a heartbeat.

Before that, the electrical processes and other processes necessary for life are not present. There are many circumstances where women get pregnant with it not being their fault. If they do not want a baby, they really should not have to endure labor if it was not their fault they got pregnant in the first place. Negligence is one thing, but not all unwanted pregnancies fit in that category, and not taking that into consideration is a mistake.

Originally posted by Nite_wing

Originally posted by Transfixed

The big "sharia scare" is a scam being pushed by many ignorant conservatives who are still whipped up into a paranoid scare about all-things-muslim after 9/11, and are convinced in their terrified little minds that the scary muslims want to convert the US to sharia law, which is never - EVER - going to happen. It's so ridiculous as to not even be worthy of discussion.

In a shocking case out of Pennsylvania, an American judge has thrown out an assault charge against a Muslim immigrant based on Sharia law. Here

Judge orders use of Islamic law in Tampa lawsuit over mosque leadership.
Here's another

The Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an injunction against an Oklahoma referendum banning the use of Islamic Sharia law in courts and said there's no evidence of such influence on US courts.
Oops. Here we go again

A Florida appeals court has just cleared the way for lawsuit over a monetary dispute at a mosque to be determined by Islamic Sharia law. Oh. This could never happen

this is totally uncool... the party is over!

better start praying to the US Military.