Legit Questions for ATS Liberals…Shed Some Light Please

This is in response to the thread Questions for our Conservative ATS Members which asked some legit questions and I think he/she got some legit answers; I hope to get the same. By the way, if you’re going to just tell us that we’re all fools for buying into the left/right paradigm then just drop a S&F and move on please. I’m not talking about republicans and democrats here so you can save your comparisons for another thread. I’m posing these questions to people who identify as LIBERALS not run of the mill democrats (I’m a CONSERVATIVE not a run of the mill republican).

OK, if we (we = those of us who understand there are serious differences in the way left or right leaning people would like to govern the affairs of the US of A) better understood where each other are coming from we might actually accomplish something.

Let’s get started! These are just a few of the contradictions (hypocrisy if you will) I’ve gleaned from researching my brothers and sisters on the left.


1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.



3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

I’m really not looking for a fight and I truly want to understand what my fellow Americans of the liberal persuasion are thinking, particularly on these issues. I have other questions but this is good enough to get the ball rolling. I will keep my responses civil and on topic and I ask that you do the same.

What say you?

Originally posted by seabag

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

That is a nonsense question. Apparently you do not know much about Sharia law. You have to ask questions that make sense in order to get answers.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Most liberals I know wish Sharpton would shut the hell up and go away. I am not sure how anyone here can answer for a group of people in your imagination.
Are you expecting "The left" to sign up and post in your thread?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

Social programs are social programs. Who makes black people utilize them more than white people? Liberals do that? How?

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

This is such a lame argument. Sarah Palin is not "women." It is just that simple. Hating George Bush does not equal hating all men so hating Palin does not equal hating women.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Yes. It is the fourth item in a list of questions yet it is not a question so in order to get an answer you will need to say more.

I’m really not looking for a fight and I truly want to understand what my fellow Americans of the liberal persuasion are thinking, particularly on these issues. I have other questions but this is good enough to get the ball rolling. I will keep my responses civil and on topic and I ask that you do the same.

What say you?

Go educate yourself on Sharia law. Ask Sharptons fans why they like Sharpton but not Thomas. Sarah Palin is an evil idiot. Other women are not. What about abortion and the death penalty?

reply to post by LErickson

The answers you came up with were silly. You never put any thought into your reasoning. Just replied with anything that came off the top of your head. I thought more from the first reply. Guess not. I'm thinking we'll pretty much expect the same from everyone else to follow..

reply to post by LErickson


Thanks for the response...now let me address it.

That is a nonsense question. Apparently you do not know much about Sharia law. You have to ask questions that make sense in order to get answers.

How is it nonsense? Conservatives are not the ones pushing (or turning a blind eye to) the Muslim Sharia agenda…liberals are. Sharia promotes the killing of homosexuals. How can you support both...honestly??

Most liberals I know wish Sharpton would shut the hell up and go away. I am not sure how anyone here can answer for a group of people in your imagination.
Are you expecting "The left" to sign up and post in your thread?

RIGHT!! He just got his own TV show!!

How about Charles Rangel? He’s been reelected HOW MANY times?? Please!

Social programs are social programs. Who makes black people utilize them more than white people? Liberals do that? How?

LIBERALS want EVERYONE dependent on the system. Liberal policies make it too easy for people of all races to have no self-reliance or self-dependency. Look at the border issue…this is simply a way to get desperate people on the government dole and voting for liberals. Conservatism teaches people to provide for themselves and be responsible. What liberal policy promotes self reliance?????

This is such a lame argument. Sarah Palin is not "women." It is just that simple. Hating George Bush does not equal hating all men so hating Palin does not equal hating women.

She’s not a woman?? I rest my case! Thanks!

Go educate yourself on Sharia law. Ask Sharptons fans why they like Sharpton but not Thomas. Sarah Palin is an evil idiot. Other women are not. What about abortion and the death penalty?

Abortion is taking a human life. The death penalty is taking a human life. One is innocent while the other has exhausted all appeals. Liberals PROMOTE the taking of innocent life while denouncing the taking of a person’s life who has been convicted of MURDER.

reply to post by LErickson


In my opinion, you gave your opinion and it totally failed.

No explanation whatsoever.

You have added nothing to the discussion.

Read the aforementioned thread through and through and come back. There is some good thought processes going on there.

Be rational rather than emotional.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by LErickson

 

In my opinion, you gave your opinion and it totally failed.

No explanation whatsoever.

You have added nothing to the discussion.

Read the aforementioned thread through and through and come back. There is some good thought processes going on there.

Be rational rather than emotional.

edit on 7-4-2012 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)

I said the same thing in my above post. I don't think we'll be getting a whole lot of Intelligent answers to the questions being addressed..

reply to post by Propulsion


To me, liberals are more emotionaly driven, while consevatives are rationally driven. The two are not compatible when it comes to politics.

The examples are too numerous to give.

I don't believe that the examples you have given should really reflect most peoples views, im sure plenty of people are pro life, anti death penalty, anti special treatment for homosexuals, pro islam law where applicable, anti wealth distribution, pro social programs.

reply to post by seabag


I didn't know you existed here...I am so glad to see you

I hope you won't be too disappointed when no one shows up with a logical answer to your very thought provoking questions.

This post is especially intriguing when compared to the post about conservatives. That post actually has rational dialogue being provided by actual conservatives....it's astonishing.

Actually, I think you won't get a response from those liberals that are intelligent, because they know their beliefs won't hold up to your premise of what a liberal is.

Now for me, I keep trying to define what I am politically and its so dynamic that I just say I am libertarian with conservative values. I do believe the government should defend its people along with very few other things.

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

There is no such thing as a "homosexual agenda" - that's a narrow bigoted viewpoint of fundamentalists. Homosexuals want the same thing as everyone else, the same basic rights. If two people love each other can they not marry? Share benefits? Live like everyone else and not be subjected to bigotry and violence?

If a Muslim wants to be governed under Sharia law, that's their business. It's their nation(s), they can choose their laws. If Muslim women reject it, they'll have to lead their own revolution against it, just as American women (along with European women) fought for suffrage, that sort of revolution has to come from within, you CAN'T impose democracy or suffrage on another people. All a neocon-led 10-year war in the ME has shown us is we can't impose our morals and system of governance on another people.

2) Racism – It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Racism was a powerful presence in the new world, it took American slavery to make the African man a "black man", only worthy of being treated like a farm animal. It also turned the Europeans who settled America into the "white man". Maybe you can familiarize yourself with the specter of slavery in the deep south, and how it persisted even after the Civil War as Jim Crow laws right up to the 1960's civil rights movement.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way.

The reason why Chicago, Detroit get the "black vote", is this is where large segments of the black population moved in the aftermath of slavery, when landowners in the south could no longer keep blacks as slaves, and couldn't sucker all of them into continuing bondage as share-croppers, not being land-owners and with little industry to keep them employed, they moved north to the factories. The real reason those states declined is the decades-in-the-making outsourcing of all our industries and jobs to cheaper labor in China, Mexico, India, etc. - in other words, globalization. Unfair trade policies led to the decline of industrial states in the Midwest, i.e., the "rust belt".

I shouldn't have to point out that racism didn't end with the freeing of the slaves, not in the south and not in the north.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

It all comes down to the policies. The GOP has been waging a war on women's reproductive rights, and even now Gov. Scott Walker in Wisconsin has repealed the "equal pay" act, designed to prevent discrimination against women based on pay. As far as I'm concerned, Palin was attacked for her position (and her ineptitude), not because she was a woman. I happen to like Condoleeza, although not keen on her coziness with neocons, I'd like to see her run under her own ideas, but women like her seem too intimidated to go against the GOP good 'ol boy policies.

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Do we treat every mass of cells, because that's what a zygote is, a mass of cells, as a living, breathing, fully-developed human? I let science dictate this policy, prior to a certain point of development in the womb, a fetus simply has no developed brain. Abortion, especially in the case of rape, an underage mother, or severe defects, is not against human nature. It really should be the mother's right to choose. I do disagree with abortion as a "birth-control afterthought". I also disagree with the GOP-led agenda of restricting women's access to basic health care including contraception and certain neo-natal care, to giving our employers the right to pry into our personal medical records and refuse us insurance coverage they "morally" object to, and forcing women to endure invasive, unnecessary medical procedures against their wills.

Republicans are legislating government control of women's health care all across this nation. And Democrats see this as a gross violation of the freedoms and liberties that we love about living in America.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by LErickson

 

In my opinion, you gave your opinion and it totally failed.

No explanation whatsoever.

You have added nothing to the discussion.

Read the aforementioned thread through and through and come back. There is some good thought processes going on there.

Be rational rather than emotional.

So you’ve read the questions and responses on both threads….thank you! I thought there were some good explanation on the other thread (I know I tried my best over there).

What is wrong with the liberal ideology that makes it so difficult to have a conversation about THEIR beliefs?? Liberals seem to dodge questions and make accusations rather than just explaining their rationale. Conservatives know liberal positions are largely indefensible but I’d still like to see some liberals actually throw down and defend these positions because they make NO SENSE to many of us who don’t drink Kool-Aid on a regular basis.

Now is your chance to defend your policies (the 3 I’ve outlined) and set us 'conservatives' straight, people. I truly want to know what the rationale is behind these stands. Who knows, if you have a logical defense I may second guess my conservative position.

Originally posted by seabag



1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

I support homosexuals because they are virtually the last group that is still subject to
draconian ideas. At one point it was blacks and even women - I recognize that what
a homosexual does is not going to harm me and I think people should beable to be
what they want to be as long as it does not harm other people.

I am not sure what you mean about Sharia law??? (I think conservative Muslims are about
as tollorant as conservative Americans or conservative Israelis) But I do think people should
be free to be religious, it think some effort should be made to let people worship how they wish,
again, as long as it doesn't harm others. If a conservative Muslim wants to beat his wife or
stone his daughter, his ass better not do it in my presence. I think liberalism as it applies to
religion is much better, liberal Muslims don't typically practice Sharia.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

I do not like to bring up racism as a political tool, but on the other hand racism still exists
neither cancels out the other.

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

I mean look at the President... He is the fricken President who benefited from many of
the programs setup to assist... Black people stick with the left for many reasons.
If you cannot figure it out I am not sure I can help you - Maybe Blacks are less likely
to stand behind the idea that a few Americans should economically dominate so many.
You recall the history, don't you???

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

Well I mean I think Sarah Palin is not smart, I think Bachman is a liar and hypocrite
who talks about the government, yet her and her family has received TONS of cash
from that same government. Condoleezza is SMART, I don't like her because she
is an Oil Tycoon (who had an Oil Super Tanker named after her) and she helped
get use into two wars, IMO based upon securing oil and generating money through
private contracting. Death for Profits, War For profits,,, Who would support that???

LAST BUT NOT LEAST…

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

I don't see how people who are pro life, can be so pro war

Or how people who want poor women to have children are against supporting those
living children with welfare, a good eduction and a fighting chance

reply to post by newsoul

I didn't know you existed here...I am so glad to see you

I hope you won't be too disappointed when no one shows up with a logical answer to your very thought provoking questions.

This post is especially intriguing when compared to the post about conservatives. That post actually has rational dialogue being provided by actual conservatives....it's astonishing.

Nice to meet you, newsoul!

Give it time. I know there are many people on ATS who are liberal and well prepared to pick apart my argument. I’m waiting anxiously but it often takes a while.

I think the other thread (questioning conservative positions) actually posed legit questions and I think mine are equally legit.

We’ll see what happens!!!

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Nice! A well thought out reply.

Not that I agree with everything you have stated, but I think this is exactly what Seabag was looking for.

Originally posted by newsoul

I hope you won't be too disappointed when no one shows up with a logical answer to your very thought provoking questions.

Sorry to have disappointed you

Thanks

Originally posted by Achey
I don't believe that the examples you have given should really reflect most peoples views, im sure plenty of people are pro life, anti death penalty, anti special treatment for homosexuals, pro islam law where applicable, anti wealth distribution, pro social programs.

I would like to hear the logic as why there is such a difference. If you’re pro-choice and think it ok to abort a child, why would you be pro-life and not execute a serial killer? I can’t comprehend that logic. So if there is a liberal who could kindly explain this, I would certainly like to hear it...

I consider myself a radical - not left - I might lean left but am not actually democrat. I support the rights of all people to their inherit dignity this includes gays, lesbians, blacks, browns, disabled and other minority groups. I do not support Sharia Law, biblical law, marxist law, because these agendas do not treat world citizens as equals with the inherit freedom of choice. Many theories of law and some laws themselves smack of religious undertones and overtones. Separation of religion from State is paramount - keep your old tired ethics (kyote) on your own back because I am tired of being scr_____! Sex workers have rights too!
I support women who use their intellectual abilities or physical prowess to attain to position as leaders. I do not support women who throw their femininity into the face of others to gain concessions because of that femaleness. A woman who knows what she wants and goes after it by using her own skills to rise above the ordinary is tops in my book. By the same sort of token people of color who use their color to influence others or in creation of a colored persona are just as plastic. Speaking with an accent is not the same as speaking ghetto no matter what color your ghetto is.
Republicans and Democrats - what ilk! The ones who LIE and accept bribes are not representatives of the people - they are self-serving and lapdogs to TPTB for money. I have often voted for glib liars and became embarrassed. Loss of face seems to be something politicians are unaware of even a potus or a scotus.
Tolerance for others who seem to make bad choices for their own lives or those who knowingly or through ignorance cause harm to others is one of the least understood and attainable parables (treat others as you would have them treat you and judge not least ye be judged.)
Even the most evil feel they have a right to approach life as they do whether they harm others or not. Many ordinary folk seem to feel that karma - good or bad - belongs to the individual who is creating it. If it were totally true and immediately effected there would be no humans left. Politicos and elitists would be the fertilizing bottom ground layer.
I am probably heading off topic so I will end it here.

Agreed left right same thing only different.

I only identify as a liberal because it is closest to what I believe.

1) Hate is hate and I hate hate. Not all Muslims want to kill homosexuals or Americans. It's a big religion with a lot of followers you can't paint them all with the same paintbrush.

2) As much as I would like to believe we have moved past racism it still exists. trust me I live in the south. Realy the liberals are enslaving blacks into poverty? Lets hear what the right has done to move them up in the ranks?

3) As a woman it offends me that the right chooses the most carzy or brain dead representaion of women I have ever witnessed. Attacking anyone for who or what they are is another way to keep us all enslaved. At what point do the masses vote for the best person to fo the job regardless of all the lables being thrown around.

4) I am pro choice not pro abortion. Really who is pro abortion? Come on be serious. I will change my stance once every unwanted baby gets adopted or society decides to insure these kids are loved, fed, cared for and have a fair shot at life. America inprision more people than China. Our justice system is a joke where justice is a commodity that can be baught and sold and the poor never stand a chance. The odds that we are exterminating inocent people is pretty high. Look at the number of homicides in the sates with the death penalty and tell me it deters anything. It's vengeance not justice.

Even the founding father knew a two party system would not work. Nothing much ever gets acomplished. You can't keep repeating the same mistake and expect a different outcome. The system is broken and corrupt.

Labels are and easy way to gloss over things we are to lazy to imderstand in their entirety. People and issues are to complex to be defined by a single word or definition. We all need to think bigger and quit acting small. Thye break up down with labels single us out and turn us on each other and we fall for it every time.

reply to post by seabag


I don’t consider myself Conservative or Liberal. I am somewhere in between and dislike both, but if I had to pick I’d align myself with the Liberals because religion is what Conservative’s base the majority of their facts on.

1) Homosexuality and Muslims - Devote Muslims kill homosexuals for being homosexual (fact). Yet, liberals support both the Homosexual agenda in America as well as Muslim Sharia Law. What gives?

Devote AMERICAN Muslims do not do this (fact). As for homosexuality, I think people should be allowed to do what comes natural or turns them on as long as it is not hurting anyone else. Why does homosexuality bother you so much? These people are just being themselves.
Why do conservatives want to kill Muslims and homosexuals? That isn’t a real question by the way, but yours was.

2) Racism – (Hot topic these days…I know…I will tread lightly) It seems liberals keep the term “racists” alive. Why are vocal black democrats given praise by the left (Sharpton, Jackson, Rangel, Shiela Jackson Lee, etc) while vocal black conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Alan West, Herman Cain, etc) called names by the left?

Also, why do liberals continue to promote social programs that enslave blacks at poverty level? Left policies have NEVER led to black prosperity (Chicago, Detroit, ALL of California, etc are good examples) yet they get the majority of the black vote. What does the left offer that should inspire black Americans and keep their vote? I think the tide is turning, by the way. This video is a good illustration of what I’ve said.

Hermain Cain… common, think now. You are trying to compare Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to Herman Cain! I don’t care much for all three, but Herman Cain!!! At least the other 2 have been relevant in society the past few decades. What conservative policies or any for that matter have ever led to black prosperity in Chicago, Detroit, and ALL of California? Which social programs are you referring to exactly? Liberals and Conservatives alike promote social programs that keep poor people poor in the sake of ‘helping them,’ just because a majority of them are black does not mean LIBERALS are enslaving blacks. This is what big government does.

3) Pro Women yet Anti Conservative Women – Liberals say they’re for women’s rights yet they destroyed Sarah Palin and her family in 2008. Liberals love Hillary but what did they have to say about Condoleezza?? Have liberals ever denounced all of the chauvinist remarks about Bachman?

UGH! Palin had the intelligence of well-umm-duh George Bush? The only women I know that would have voted for her are in their 70s. Liberals do not love Hilary but at least she is smart enough to hold office longer than half a term without leaving her position and state in complete ruins. And you brought up Bachman how cliché. Honestly, would you seriously have ever voted either of them into office?

4) Pro Abortion yet Anti-Death Penalty – Need I say more on this issue?

Abortion should be allowed because it is the woman’s body to do as she chooses, if she is not ready for a baby, she’s not ready for a baby. Why push your agenda over someone who isn’t ready to be a mother. It isn’t like we are forcing women to abort their unborn, they are choosing to do so, let them be. I’m not anti-death penalty, I think some people deserve it, but I think rotting in a disgusting prison for a consecutive life terms is a much worse punishment.