Rocket fired from Egypt hits Israeli city of Eilat

Originally posted by charlie77
does this balls up my next trip to sharm? or will i need factor 50000 lotion?

I doubt it. Egyptians tourism industry allready took a huge hit so they most definetely will not be interested in further escalation, and for Israeli side of the border it is Passover time with lots of tourists in Eilat.

Fantasticly well timed for the bid for additional US funds for the Iron Dome project don't you think ?

You could almost believe it could be a set up.

Surley not.

reply to post by Swills


Refugees issue is a problem, true. It complicates the things and is presented as a reason for the hate. But not the refugees caused 1948 war - because those huindreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees and few thousand Jewish refugees are only the result of it.
Arab states that controled parts of Palesine since 1948 did not give Palestinians even partial independence, they actually refused to recognise them as citizens too. Number of Palestinians killed in various inner conflicts in those Arab states is much bigger then number of Palestinians killed in recent Gaza conflict by Israeli forces.

In my opinion ,real reasons for (more then usual) problematic nature of this conflict is basic disagreement with idea of Jewish state on what is considered an Islamic land.
700000 refugees is a tragedy and can be described as an ethnic cleansing. But it is not the largest number of refugees that lost their houses and property as a result of wars in 20th century.
India - Pakistan wars resulted in several millions of refugees for example. Nobody questions the right of both to exist though,despite the fact.

reply to post by Swills

With all of the thousands of rockets fired into Israel over the past decade or so, the majority of them do no damage and cause no injuries. Don't get me wrong, some rockets have killed a small percentage of people but more people are injured from said attacks. The most damage they cause is psychological damage, air raid sirens and incoming rockets is harmful to anyones health. So here we go again, more rockets that are merely just for show rather than damage

Oh, I see! It's okay then. Maybe you should communicate this brilliant concept to Israel. "It's all just for laughs". Maybe we can put them on "Punked" or "Fear Factor"? Another missile? PUNKED!

I guess the incompetence in misdirecting the missiles makes it okay.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


You are comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. The major flaw is that there are 2 countries, Pakistan/India, 2 cultures that have lived in those lands for centuries upon centuries, each with a rich history in the areas. Palestine failed to be created because the Arab people refuse to agree to the UN's terms & later vice versa. Pakistan was looking to increase their lands by taking over lands that did not belong to them which resulted in the millions of refugees. There have and still are refugees from all over the world. My point about the creation of Israel is that the Jewish people begin to make their way to those lands in the late 19th century and later saw a huge increase in immigration after WWII, so much so that Britain was denying Jewish folk from further immigration into said lands. This is not the case with India/Pakistan. Now, the land Israel occupies, religiously is home to the 3 largest western religions and the Jews did need a home to call their own after being targeted for violence in many countries, but the way they acquire Israel was the wrong way, imo. Britain basically left it up to the UN to decide what to do with the land, which again imo was a bad move. The story is more complicated than that but ATS only allows so many characters in one post and I'm not looking to write a book about this.

www.mtholyoke.edu...

India and Pakistan have a long and complicated history with each other. In fact, these two countries simultaneously became independent from Britain. When British India became independent, it was supposed to be divided into two parts. Areas consisting of 75% or more Muslims were to become Pakistan and the rest of the territory India.

Two more wars occurred between Pakistan and India. One of the wars was in 1965, which resulted in a stalemate between the two countries for Kashmir. The second war occurred in 1971 and was triggered by Pakistan trying to pacify the Bengali peasantry by confiscating Hindu land and giving it to the Muslims ("1971 India-Pakistan War: Origins of Crisis," Available at link below). This action created eight million refugees that created an immense burden on the Indian government. The Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi, felt the only way to stop the flow of refugees was to support the Bengali freedom fighters, especially the Muki Bahini. Pakistan then began to attack suspected Muki Bahini camps located inside of India's territory. They later struck nine Indian airfields along the western boarder. India declared war on Pakistan and defeated them in two weeks, overrunning East Pakistan and taking 93,000 POWS

news.bbc.co.uk...

Before World War I, Palestine was a district ruled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

The Ottomans were defeated by Britain and her allies in the war.

After WWI, Britain took control of Palestine, but there was much trouble between the Arabs who lived there and Jews who wanted to live there too.

Jews have long historical and religious ties to the land dating back thousands of years. They believe it was promised to them by God.

In the early part of the 20th century thousands of Jews moved to the area before it became Israel to start new lives and set up new communities.

Many were escaping Europe and Russia as they were where they were being persecuted for being Jewish. Many more moved to Israel after the Holocaust, including from Arab countries.

After World War II, Britain decided to let the United Nations decide what to do with Palestine.

en.wikipedia.org...

The first wave of modern Jewish migration to Ottoman-ruled Palestine, known as the First Aliyah, began in 1881, as Jews fled pogroms in Eastern Europe.[58]

The Second Aliyah (1904–14), began after the Kishinev pogrom; some 40,000 Jews settled in Palestine, although nearly half of them later left.[58] Both the first and second waves of migrants were mainly Orthodox Jews,[62] although the Second Aliyah included socialist groups who established the kibbutz movement.[63]

The Third (1919–1923) and Fourth Aliyahs (1924–1929) brought an additional 100,000 Jews to Palestine.[58] Finally, the rise of Nazism and the increasing persecution of Jews in the 1930s led to the Fifth Aliyah, with an influx of a quarter of a million Jews. This was a major cause of the Arab revolt of 1936–1939 and led the British to introduce restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine with the White Paper of 1939. With countries around the world turning away Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust, a clandestine movement known as Aliyah Bet was organized to bring Jews to Palestine.[58]

Originally posted by bknapple32

So just run of the mill violence, or something more? Time to ask yourself, if its not this attack, will it be the next one that starts something huge like WW3? The more we hear of these stories in todays world, the more we are on the cusp and brink of something big going down. The US will be forced to help Isreal, and welcome to retaliation from Iran... This is not looking good my ats friends...

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 5-4-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

There is a great possibility it was a 'test'... accuracy of missle and a guise to determine locations of radar and anti-missle batteries, etc.

Originally posted by BellaSabre
reply to post by Swills

 

With all of the thousands of rockets fired into Israel over the past decade or so, the majority of them do no damage and cause no injuries. Don't get me wrong, some rockets have killed a small percentage of people but more people are injured from said attacks. The most damage they cause is psychological damage, air raid sirens and incoming rockets is harmful to anyones health. So here we go again, more rockets that are merely just for show rather than damage

Oh, I see! It's okay then. Maybe you should communicate this brilliant concept to Israel. "It's all just for laughs". Maybe we can put them on "Punked" or "Fear Factor"? Another missile? PUNKED!

I guess the incompetence in misdirecting the missiles makes it okay.

Don't take it personally but the facts are still the facts. After over a decade of rockets being fired into Israel (8,600 & climbing) the majority of them did no damage or harm. That said, people were still killed, 28, and hundreds injured, but you hopefully already read that since you are responding to my post that already stated those numbers. Is it really incompetence, a decade long of incompetence & growing, that the Arab terrorists are demonstrating? I seriously have my doubts about that. There's a deeper conspiracy here but I'm not going to go into it.

Also, no where did I say its okay to fire rockets at anyone, that's you putting words into my mouth.

Older thread already started:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mods shut it down, redirect to Xuenchen's post.

Originally posted by Swills

Originally posted by BellaSabre
reply to post by Swills

 

With all of the thousands of rockets fired into Israel over the past decade or so, the majority of them do no damage and cause no injuries. Don't get me wrong, some rockets have killed a small percentage of people but more people are injured from said attacks. The most damage they cause is psychological damage, air raid sirens and incoming rockets is harmful to anyones health. So here we go again, more rockets that are merely just for show rather than damage

Oh, I see! It's okay then. Maybe you should communicate this brilliant concept to Israel. "It's all just for laughs". Maybe we can put them on "Punked" or "Fear Factor"? Another missile? PUNKED!

I guess the incompetence in misdirecting the missiles makes it okay.

Don't take it personally but the facts are still the facts. After over a decade of rockets being fired into Israel (8,600 & climbing) the majority of them did no damage or harm. That said, people were still killed, 28, and hundreds injured, but you hopefully already read that since you are responding to my post that already stated those numbers. Is it really incompetence, a decade long of incompetence & growing, that the Arab terrorists are demonstrating? I seriously have my doubts about that. There's a deeper conspiracy here but I'm not going to go into it.

Also, no where did I say its okay to fire rockets at anyone, that's you putting words into my mouth.

Whats the deeper conspiracy??

Unbelievable. Displaying the fact that Hamas' is unable to effectively cause damage with their homemade rockets and low grade Chinese firecrackers (120 mm) as a conspiracy or a scheme.

This is.. just.. too out there.

How accurate and effective do you think you will be (even with a billion $ funding) using homemade weaponry and extremely low grade Chinese rockets with no real aiming ability, while there is a proper army monitoring you using satellites and drones?
Hell, they already figured out it's impossible to lob rockets at Israel without a helicopter immediately gunning them down, unless they use hidden launchers and attach timers to them so the army won't know where to strike.

Personally I think they are doing remarkably good (in terms of effectiveness) with all of their limitations.
It's simply absurd that a person that probably never seen a combat a day in his life is claiming, conveniently from his apartment miles away, that it's "strange" that no real damage was done without even understanding what they deal with.

reply to post by bknapple32


You're not familar with the conspiracy theories surrounding Israel, the Middle East, and western Gov'ts? There's a plethora of information about these conspiracies right at your finger tips, but I'm not going to get into them because it's not really relevant to the thread. There are plenty of threads about said conspiracies right here on ATS.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Why am I not surprised someone named Israeli guy doesn't believe in any conspiracy about Israel?

This is.. just.. too out there.

And you're kinda right, I've never been in direct combat, but then again sailors usually don't find themselves in direct combat. My first tour of duty literally began 4 days after 9/11. Assuming makes an ass out of you and me, but can I assume you're from Israel, perhaps living there and was forced to join the IDF? If not, then what?

Mandatory service was what 'forced' me to join the IDF, and even if it wasn't mandator, I'd still serve.

Aside from the fact that I assumed wrongfully (apparently, I don't know) that you never seen combat in your entire life, can you even relate your post to any of the points I have raised, or are you in here only to engage in a neverending post war only to gain stars by your fellow supporters?
I'm serious, you have not contradicted anything I said, instead you stated the fact that I have 'Israeli' in my nickname, that I'm probably from Israel, and that I'm wrong by saying you haven't seen combat.

While I used facts from reality explaining why this is not a conspiracy but rather a very good effort by Hamas, you're the one screaming conspiracy without a single shred of proof or evidence beside your personal opinions.

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Yeah I figured as much that you're from Israel because of your name and from there you've served in the IDF because you're mandated, just like Italy, although the Italians don't worry about rocket fire like the Israeli's do. Sure, you'd join willingly, but either way you had no choice in the matter. And yes, I suspect there is a deeper conspiracy here, Israel, the ME in general, the US, the UK, etc, are wrought with conspiracy but you already know this because you're a member on this site.

My suggesting that there is a deeper conspiracy was definitely including these rockets and their failures for almost a decade. They are low tech rockets usually made from fertilizer or any easy made ingredient, right? How far can they travel? Are the majority of them duds? I'm sure most of them are easily shot down by Israel via SAMs? Israel does have the Superior equipment there is no doubt. Now is this conspiracy against you or your state? You do seem to be very upset just the mention of a conspiracy, but I completely understand why you'd be. But don't get to upset, I'm just throwing the idea that there is a deeper conspiracy to these rockets and it doesn't involve Israel. Terrorists groups are clearly funded by wealthy people and the ME is full of wealth. Where better to fund a terrorist operation than the areas surrounding Israel? I'm sure these homemade rockets have evolved over the years but they still aren't anymore effective, right? I'm wondering why that is. I do know the Israeli military intelligence agencies are considered by many to be the best in the world, with that I know for a fact a lot of shipments of weapons and whatnot have been intercepted time and time again, but they can't get them all. Money will get you everywhere in this world and $$ funds these groups to carry out these attacks, I find it odd they are so ill equip after all these years, but my suspicions is pointed towards their funders, not Israel. Call it a conspiracy theory, that's all it is at this point.

And yes, of course I do it for the stars, duh. I've clearly earned so many in this thread.

Why isn't Egypt a large pile of glass? A sovereign nations attacks another nation with artillery, and the attacked nation says "meh"? Mind boggling.

/TOA

Originally posted by Swills
reply to post by Wookiep

 

You could use Canada but it would be another failure of an example because America isn't stealing land from Canada nor are they encroaching on Canadian borders.

Of course my mind is made up. Am I supposed to be on the fence still? Trust me, I look at situations from more than just one perspective. Get use to not everyone agreeing with you. Welcome to life.

edit on 5-4-2012 by Swills because: (no reason given)

Okay since Mexico and Canada are failed examples lets try this example. What if the Sioux nation or Navajo, Iroquois, Cherokee, Creek, Blackfoot, Seminole, or Arapaho nations were lobbing missiles from their reservations onto American soil? Afterall America stole waaaay more land from them than Israel has been accused of stealing from the Arabs. Would it then be okay for all of the Native American tribes to attack US soil because we "stole" their land?

I also believe that the nation of Israel once stood where it currently is before the Romans invaded it almost 2,000 years ago and then it was lost to the Muslim rulers. So if you want to talk about stolen land didn't the Romans actually steal Israel first?

Don't get me wrong, I am by no sense of the word an Israeli supporter but I do support fairness. Besides cultures have been "stealing" land from other cultures throughout recorded history.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


You could say similar events did happen because of the result of Europeans claiming lands from the Native Americans, but they didn't have missile technology back then either. They did however not take it sitting down, and those events are known as the American - Indian wars. As history shows, people are possessive over territory, which is obvious.

I suppose the Romans absorbed the Jewish folk into their communities effectively taking over, but I dunno if they went to war with the Jews to take their lands, although I remember the Jews would later revolt. So I guess battles were fought. Last I heard, according to the Jewish religion, God exiled them from Israel and only God can allow them back to Israel, so the religion says, but I'd have to double check on that because I'm not very familiar with religious stories.

A thread about this already exists here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

We don't need to threads for this, especially given the fact that people are just going to restate the same stupid opinions. That goes for both sides of the coin.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


Another failed example. The Indians are a minority group within the USA, who have been discarded to casinos and reservations. They stake no claim for an independent homeland and are spread thinly across throughout the US, with little political power. Furthermore, their land was stolen from the a long time ago, when the world was even less civilised (note less civilised, as we are not civilised in todays day an age, we are perhaps less savage like however). The claims of the Indians have no weight in the international system and no legal justification. Furthermore, they are not located in the epicentre of civilisational life (i.e. where Christianity, Judiasm and Islam meet), and their numbers do not command large demographics capable of initiating general change (note change is not necassarily positive).

The historical plight of the Indians has little effect on society as no one was alive when the savages (Europeans) were butchering the other savages (albeit to a lesser degree then the European conquerers). On the other hand, the wounds of the Israel-Palestine/Israel-Arab conflict are still fresh on both the Jews and Arabs, whereas the wounds on the Indians have become scars.

Sweet historic Israel did once stand in Palestine, 2000 years ago before the Romans conquered it. Now every Jew which has lived in historic Israel has consequently been dead for 2000 years and therefore, unless their dead bodies rise from the ground to reclaim the land, no Jew has a claim to Israel as their historic homeland as they never lived there and most were certianly not born their. Jews however do have a claim to Israel as their political grouping seems to be more might (note that dosen't mean right) than the Arabs which currently populate the area. This means they have the ability to claim (not reclaim) the land, however this does not mean I condone (infact quite the opposite) and this does not mean it is right (which is subjective).

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


We know because someone already posted that link, but as it happens conversations already stated in here and they are continuing, so unless this thread gets locked the convos will continue.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


You sir are an absolute idiot and hypocrite making remarks such as the one you just made. For one thing the Native Americans were by no means savages. We did not go around conquering other lands and we did not rape, pillage , and murder millions in the name of religion. We lived in perfect harmony with nature and unless a rival nation intruded into our nations territory we did not war with them and we had a very sophisticated trade with all Native nations. We did not own possessions or land as we believed that the great spirit of the earth gave us all the land to use for our sustenance and we in turn gave back to the earth. This is why we were free, because we did not work to pay someone for our sustenance instead we worked to gather our sustenance.

If we were savages then I suppose you could say that most of the environmental movements in the world are savages since they subscribe to our most basic beliefs.

You called us "savages" yet it was the Europeans whom were and still are the savages. When the Europeans arrived we offered them help in surviving in the wilds of our land just to be lied to and killed. We had powerful nations with complex governmental systems where each and every member of a community was equal. You call us minorities that have been reduced to reservations and casinos, you couldn't be further from the truth. A small percentage of Natives live on reservations or are involved in casinos. Most of us work jobs and live just as any other American. And we are a minority now because of the slaughter of our people by the real "savages", the European thieves that decimated our people and food sources.

You say that any of my people that had claim to this land are dead and gone yet the same could basically be said for the Palistinians that lost their land to the Jews since it has been 64 years since they were given that land there are very few surviving Palistians whom ever walked the land now owned by Israel.

As I said, you call us "savages" so Ill tell you what my grandfather told me one time when I asked him what he thought about the Europeans coming to America. You see he was 98 yo when he died in 1980 and I asked him as a child.

He said that before the white man came we had plenty of clean water to drink, beaver's and waterfowl filled the creeks and lakes, there was an abundance of buffalo and deer for nourishment and the songs of birds filled each day. We were free to live in harmony with nature and breath the fresh air. We would hunt and raise our crops and children each day and make love every night. He said only the white man was stupid enough to think he could improve that.

I am not full blooded "savage" as you called it but am half Lakota Sioux and half Irish however I am still much more versed on the history of my people than you are. I would suggest that you learn a little about the natives before you try to be an expert on their plight. Regardless this was our land and we would have just as much.right to fight for it as the Palistinian people do to fight for theirs. Just because we lost our land 400 years ago does not mean it wasn't ours and that Europeans didn't steal it. Just as even though the Palistinians originally lost theirs 3,000 years ago when they were known as Philistines you are saying that the Palistinians have a right to fight for theirs. Your argument is one of hypocrisy and close mindedness since every comparison you have been presented with has been "failed" in your eyes. You are unwilling to see anything other than what you are focused on.