what was before hell?

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

sounds like a thread topic for the political madness forum.

heck no... that crap will drive you mad for sure!

simply... I and many others will not participate for a pinko communist while our streets are burning and the word "Occupy" is everywhere.

the other freaks who don't know how to handle it can come out, I choose Jesus' passive resistance.

and if he's not gone by next election, my butt will be... I will move to a country that believes in God then come back if we are on the right track... I am a free American.

is that food enough for ya's?

-Captain Rhodes

edit on 1-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Wow, you're even more off topic than I was, and full of simmering hatred too.
I was unaware that countries believed in Gad. I thought it was more a personal thing, or an enforcement by those who would control and rob you.

Before hell, there was a massive explosion. That's right, hell was created after the events of the big bang. As the particles of the explosion whirled around each and spread out and gained their own forces of gravity, they combined to make galaxies full of thousands of different worlds and the creator of the big bang was looking, the creator was always looking. He saw a planet made of brimstone orbiting a nuclear ball of fire in a galaxy and sent his unwanted children there, after a few years of suffering and hiding under rocks and building, we call this galaxy the milky way. We are already in hell.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

sounds like a thread topic for the political madness forum.

heck no... that crap will drive you mad for sure!

simply... I and many others will not participate for a pinko communist while our streets are burning and the word "Occupy" is everywhere.

the other freaks who don't know how to handle it can come out, I choose Jesus' passive resistance.

and if he's not gone by next election, my butt will be... I will move to a country that believes in God then come back if we are on the right track... I am a free American.

is that food enough for ya's?

-Captain Rhodes

edit on 1-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Wow, you're even more off topic than I was, and full of simmering hatred too.
I was unaware that countries believed in Gad. I thought it was more a personal thing, or an enforcement by those who would control and rob you.

alot of people working for these said countries believe in God...

The beginning of the universe must have been a powerful force. Most people believe that their own version of the beginning is more true and powerful than the version across the water. We are stuck on the same planet and we are all bound by gravity on the same planet. People are designed to kill each other by whatever force designed life to live this on this planet. We must think hard enough to get through this.

reply to post by Parksie

The beginning of the universe must have been a powerful force.

I think so too.
It's persuasion.

Originally posted by Infi8nity
Before Satin tried to over throw God how did God punish people for sinning? With out punishment is their even a thing such as sin? Why does God think its ok for him self to sin? He lets soles be cast into a eternal lake of fire causing pain and suffering. Yet if we wear to do the same thing to the people that "deserve it" then it would be a sin.

Light cannot exist with out darkness, so before hell their was no light?

So what was the punishment before hell?

edit on 1-4-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)

There was no sin before Lucifer fell, nothing to punish. God doesn't sin, he doesn't "let" souls be cast into eternal damnation, he gave them a way out when he came as Jesus, if they do not take advantage of that loophole, it's their fault not his. In essence, they go into eternal death by their own choice for not accepting Jesus. In everything he has given man a choice, it's not his fault that man keeps picking the wrong choice.

As the old addage goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".

reply to post by icepack

end of death ? the beast who leads astray ?
can you please explain more ? have you got the specific verses of revelation ?

Revelation 20:14a
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshipped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur.

Originally posted by Parksie
The beginning of the universe must have been a powerful force. Most people believe that their own version of the beginning is more true and powerful than the version across the water. We are stuck on the same planet and we are all bound by gravity on the same planet. People are designed to kill each other by whatever force designed life to live this on this planet. We must think hard enough to get through this

no it's just Hell right now because we have the Zombies on the loose...

Zombies now learned how to start fires and destroy property, and a bunch of other things that used to lay dormant.

haven't see this since the civil rights era... we have been thrust backwards.

reply to post by Infi8nity


You dont understand, there was no hell, or earth or people or angels for the matter. After creation, there was hell, and people who were judged accordingly were sent there when they died.

Also, who said Yahuwah is sinning? Explain to me how he is doing wrong by sending the wicked to punishment. He is the Creator, He makes the rules. We are not perfect beings, and we do not know everything. That is why the Creator, the Maker, the Designer does these things. He gave the rules, he gave us life and choice, and those who don't obey Him, go to punishement.

No human being at this moment can judge anyone knowing 100% totally their heart and intentions. No human person can know the total extent of all things of another human being. But the Creator knows all things, He has the right to judge anyone for anything.

reply to post by Seektruthalways1


There was no hell then, Jewawah created hell and then gave life to beings on a purpose so he could send them there. And that is where we are for sure.

Originally posted by Parksie
reply to post by Seektruthalways1

 

There was no hell then, Jewawah created hell and then gave life to beings on a purpose so he could send them there. And that is where we are for sure.

that's not a very scientific analogy imo

since when did science start using metaphysics and philosophy anyway

reply to post by Seektruthalways1

That is why the Creator, the Maker, the Designer does these things. He gave the rules, he gave us life and choice, and those who don't obey Him, go to punishement.

The natural, physical universe recycles everything including living beings.
God is god by virtue of His nature which can survive in the universe.
Those connected to God can share in that life, meaning a life, period, as yourself, without being recycled and your identity as a person being lost forever.
It's life, or death.

Originally posted by Infi8nity
Before Satin tried to over throw God how did God punish people for sinning? With out punishment is their even a thing such as sin? Why does God think its ok for him self to sin? He lets soles be cast into a eternal lake of fire causing pain and suffering. Yet if we wear to do the same thing to the people that "deserve it" then it would be a sin.

Light cannot exist with out darkness, so before hell their was no light?

So what was the punishment before hell?

edit on 1-4-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)

Marriage?

Originally posted by Raelsatu
Considering hell is a place invented by men, used by men as a control/fear mechanism....

The Catholics & other early denominational Christians believed anyone who's a heretic, including those who only slightly deviated from their dogma, were going to hell. They would tell the people they tortured they were going to hell. The people they ruthlessly [mass]murdered were also going to hell. Hell exist in the beliefs of many religions, and every time it's used to manipulate the masses.

If hell exist, which I most certainly hope it doesn't, I would presume it's only meant for those who's lives were ruled primarily by hate/violence. & Eternity is not forever.

From my point of view Heaven and Hell have to do how your mind and unconcious feel and not only on the place your are. The happier and connected you feel to the people/enviroment/everything around you the closer to heaven you are and the more hateful and disconnected you feel against people/social systems/everything the more depresed you will be and the further down in hell you will be. So hell can be seen as being disconected from the holy spirit. In that sense most people on this planet is in Hell and are having trouble waking up to the holy spirit. Learn whatever you want from the experiance and become what you want to be. Being static is a illusion and not evolving my soul is also an illusion. I might deevolve downwards sometime and evolve upwards sometimes and sometimes I am sent back because I have not understood. There is no real hurry except to get away from a bad situation if you are in one. There is no reason to keep souls apart when the soul have understood the lesson of symbiotic behaviour so eternal hell will not exist for a logical egoless god (nice that this is what we have despite what the bible say). But is is a hard lesson and I am not sure I really understand it yeet and follow it fully. It is hard to follow it in todays social climate with all it's duality. One more thing. God is not after one religons souls but all and he will get all in the end. He has patiance and will teach as long as it takes.

Originally posted by Warpedconsciousness
reply to post by Infi8nity

 

Easy question easy answer, no one sinned. Back then everyone was good, even the fallen angel Satan. Until Satan believed he could rise to be more powerful is when his mind strayed away into the evil. In a sense there's always good and evil as in there's always a choice to be good or evil. Back then no one chose to be evil, now we are living at a time where there are people living in a state of good and evil. The objective is to separate the two by testing all souls.

Good and evil is to arbitary and is different due to point of view. Why not call it symbiotic and egoparasitic (devine and satanic). Satan was the bully that told everybody he was right and would not listen to reason and try to force his perception of what was right/good with unthruth and manipulation probably with devide and conqurer strategy by building up dualities amd pushing groups to bully scapegoats that he choose.

Many people claim to be good but are using the same methods as satan. Many people people in high places call themselves Christians or Muslism. But by their action we can see that they are lost souls either by choice or ignorance. Today they love dualitys of nationality. One nation against another, the rich against the poor, Christians against muslism. We are right and they are wrong speech. They will protect us from the danger that they show. But who will protect us from the dagger they have ready to push in our backs when it suits them.

reply to post by Infi8nity


'Hell' is an idea created by human religion...sin is an idea used by the ego...aka 'the devil.'

Just choose love over fear and forget about all that religious mumbo-jumbo. GOD loves everyone.

reply to post by Warpedconsciousness


It is my position that Hell is imaginary. I arrived at this position by following the evidence available to me at the time of my inquiry. Whether or not my position, or your position, is the correct position neither of us can objectively know. However, the evidence equates, in my mind, with the conclusion that Hell is not a real place.

The definition of Hell depends on your interpretation of the Bible. The Muslims certainly have a concept relating to "Nearness" and "Farness" from Allah. They call it Tanzih and Tashbih. Similarly, casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden does count as sending humanity farther away from God. That is not the only interpretation though, as Hell itself is very rarely mentioned or described in the Bible.

Hell, as a concept or an idea evolves depending on the cultural traits being attributed to it. Christianity subsists on a balanced dichotomy of fear and guilt. Fear of God, and personal guilt over all our actions which take us further from God's grace.

In the Old Testament God demands worship and faith by punishing those whom He has supposedly created. The world-wide flood, the plagues of Egypt, slaughter of the Israelites after Moses attains the 10 Commandments, sending evil spirits to torment and kill King Saul. The list goes on.

In the New Testament God demands worship and faith through human guilt. Jesus Christ suffers for us, and dies to account for our sinful nature. The entire premise here being: we were bad, so God killed Himself because of us. Feel guilty, repent, and take Christ into your heart.

Fear of God, and guilt over our actions.

Hell must work the same way. Obviously sinners do not regret doing their sinning, as they keep doing it. So, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ means nothing to them. God cannot guilt all of the sinners. So, he must scare, shock, and terrify them into serving Him. Since God no longer intervenes on Earth, a place of judgment and torture for sinners after they die is the only thing which might work. Scare the sinners by threatening torture and torment because they're out of God's grace.

I'm not a Christian though. Hell holds no sway over me. Neither does God, nor Jesus Christ's suffering and death. I am a historian. I see religion and mythology as cultural teachings, values, and ethics. Not as divine truths, as there are too many holes, inconsistencies, contradictions, and circular arguments within all religions for them to be of any use beyond spiritual studies.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Hell holds no sway over me.

"Hell" is a one word visual cue to bring up a whole imagery set that describes basically, death.
Death does hold sway over, not only you, but everyone living.
Jesus came to take away our fear of death by taking away its finality, by demonstrating that we as people have value, and are not just so much useless refuse to be burnt up to make some use from us, as mulch to feed plant-life.
Jesus is useful as a person, and has value intrinsically, as being in the form of God, and has taken our worldly form to demonstrate that we too are related, and by being like Jesus internally, we complete the example that proves our relationship, and can join God in life that never needs to be ended.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You incorrectly presuppose that all living things have a fear of death.

It may be true that you feared death, the act of dying, and the prospect of not-being once you had died, but—as with most Christians—you incorrectly overlay your personal views as being the truth of all humans.

Humans come in a multitude of forms, with myriad beliefs. Where you fear death and need the (unverifiable) promise of life eternal from Jesus Christ to feel meaningful; I don't fear death, and don't need unproven claims to understand that my life has meaning; because of my own actions, and not who I serve in my performing them.

To insist that Jesus came to remove the fear of death is incorrect.

Animism, which predates all religion, teaches of a spirit world where ancestors and those who have died before us can be visited again.

Ani, from Egypt, who long predates Christ. Ani came with the same message of life-beyond-death. Every Pharaoh from Egypt was believed to be the incarnation of the deity Horus, or Ra, on Earth. Upon death, the Pharaoh was released from his mortal body, becoming a Ka-rest, or Risen One (sometimes transcribed as a Ka-Riste or Annointed One).

Ut-Napishtam from the original Mesopotamian deluge myth (approximately 2000 years older than the Biblical account) is an immortal human being who never dies.

In Hindu religions, the trinity of Brahama, Vishnu, and Krishna CREATE all things, then DESTROY all things, and REBIRTH all things forever and ever in an endless cycle; beginning with the spark of creation and ending with the collapse and rebirth of creation. All of life is continuously cycled and recycled in their system, resulting in the immortality of all beings through Reincarnation and Karma.

Jesus Christ was the last, in a long line of figures, deities, and messiahs who came to teach man of his connection to the eternally turning cosmos, and their own immortal nature. I wouldn't expect any Christian to know that, though, as Christians often tend to have no concept of where their religion and it's ideas actually come from.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Since God no longer intervenes on Earth, a place of judgment and torture for sinners after they die is the only thing which might work.

Hahahahahaha. God no longer intervenes on earth. Hilarious. From where I am sitting he is really doing a lot of things now and is really pushing for evolution.

You reap you sow. if you do not get the lesson and are able to fix your misstakes then you will have to continue until you can pass to the next grade. No hurry. Some times you go back sometimes you go forward. Somtimes I belive we are as old as the universe and the big bang was the startingpoint of our evolution. There are no new souls but there is a whole universe that is evolving around us.